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Pariah Press wrote: Oh, I'm not distraught, just disappointed. I was hoping that the WD list would have some cool new units. As it is, I will certainly use the old Army Book if I play FB soon.

Hi PP,

Out of personal curiosity, what kind of new units were you expecting?

Cheers
Dave

Well the new list is crappy... although the ability to take any Lore you want for Tzeentch is fairly interesting. Imagine Chaos playing with the Lore of light or Metal. Its an interesting twist.

The list does allow you to take 2 chariots for 1 Special slot, at only 100 pts each chariot, so that's a bonus. And the point reduction in the heroes/troops is a good thing. The trick will be if these improvements will carry over to the Army book.

The other semi-good thing is that in the recent WD, they have pictures of the new DE models and announce that DE will have a new army book in August. Which we already knew... but may add creedence to the rumor that the new Hordes of Chaos army book comes out in December.... which is only 6 months away.

So, like most of you I'm either continuing to use my current army book, or moving on to painting something else. Good thing is, we should only have to wait 6 months for Phil Kelly to finish the new books.

-Jmz

Does anyone know how long it will be before the rules make it onto the internet? I don't really fancy buying a WD for only 3 or 4 pages worth of content.

Dave, though I won't claim to speak for PP, and would like to see his answer, I don't think he said he was expecting new units. Just that he hoped to.

I imagine that pretty much all of us who have Mortals lists are hoping to get new units in compensation for the variety we've now lost. In April I painted two herds of gors/ungors, a chariot, and a shaman for my Hordes list. I really enjoyed using them for the ~7-8 games in which I got to. I strongly hope the eventual army book will give me new things to replace them and Furies, in part because variety = good, and in part because without shooting, and with the Core being so slow, the army is (for the interim) pretty darn short of fast support units to help deal with enemy skirmishers, shooters, and war machines.

I don't know if I would have said I *expected* new units in the WD list, but it might have constituted a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down, if I may borrow a metaphor from Mary Poppins.

davetaylor wrote:Out of personal curiosity, what kind of new units were you expecting?

Diseased flagellants, tzeentchian thrall wizards, slaaneshi sex 'n drug fiends, and other cultists.

A jabberwock wouldn't hurt, either, while we're going through my Wish List.

EDIT: Some of those crazy Norse units from Man O' War would be good. Werewolves, especially.

How long are you expected to use the "Get you by" list?

malfred wrote:How long are you expected to use the "Get you by" list?

November if the rumors are true.

The most fun I had running a Chaos army was back in the day when you could field Demons, Mortals, and Beastmen all in the same army.
The army had the look of something out of Moorcock's Elric and Corum books and it got into some pretty epic games with Orcs and other Chaos armies of the same type of build.

My mortal chaos is shelved until november at least. But daemons are stable and nice in fantasy, so I guess Im not totally lost.

Pariah Press wrote:

davetaylor wrote:Out of personal curiosity, what kind of new units were you expecting?

Diseased flagellants, tzeentchian thrall wizards, slaaneshi sex 'n drug fiends, and other cultists.

A jabberwock wouldn't hurt, either, while we're going through my Wish List.

EDIT: Some of those crazy Norse units from Man O' War would be good. Werewolves, especially.

Ahh, I guess that'd be why you're concerned. The "Get you by" lists never really introduce new units, just give you a way to use those you already have until the new Army Book/Codex is released, when we would typically introduce a new unit or two. Sorry for the confusion that has occurred.

Cheers
Dave

Eh, no problem. I figured it might be more like the recent Blood Angels list, which did have new units. Obviously just wishful thinking on my part. I'll just buy some daemons to tide me over 'till November, I guess.

Pariah Press wrote: Eh, no problem. I figured it might be more like the recent Blood Angels list, which did have new units. Obviously just wishful thinking on my part. I'll just buy some daemons to tide me over 'till November, I guess.

The Blood Angels list wasn't called "Get You By" though. "Get You By" makes me
think of Ravening Hordes.

For goodness sake folks, this is only a get you by list until the new mortal book is released (before the end of the year IIRC).

They had to do something now Daemons is on the scene, as they've decided to keep all three chaos lists completely separate. Keeping them all able to access each others units gives too many combinations to keep balanced.

I am in favour of the nerfing of both Tzeentch and Khorne. Even dwarfs struggle to stop the current Tzeentch magic phase, and why bother with a magic phase if your opponenet has Khorne?

It's comparable to the old Ravening Hordes booklet.

Just take a moment and calm down.

I expect the lores will return when the new book is released.

Heh heh.
So the current list is "Get You By" because you don't have to buy any new stuff.
Does that make the codex a "Get You to Buy" list?

It's odd that they didn't just leave mortals as it is until the new book comes out though.

Da Boss wrote:Heh heh.
So the current list is "Get You By" because you don't have to buy any new stuff.
Does that make the codex a "Get You to Buy" list?

It's odd that they didn't just leave mortals as it is until the new book comes out though.

It's to encourage Demon players to go deep.

It's just weird, because, well the HoC book is just fine as it is, except there are demons in it. The "Get you by" list seems like it's not necessary, as you could have just said, "Don't use demons with mortals anymore."

When people see the new list in WD, they are thinking to themselves, "Hey, there must be something new in here!" when in reality, there isn't.

Well, it's their way of splitting the Hordes and Daemons
books before tournament season begins, for one thing.

Wouldn't a simple: "Use only the rules in the hordes of chaos book for hordes of chaos armies, and use only the rules in the Chaos Daemons book for chaos daemons armies" have allieviated any potential confusion.

It's hardly world ending that there are two different sets of rules for daemons, since they're in different books. I dunno, it wouldn't confuse me much. And it'd be less work for GW, while not upsetting anyone.

That's precisely my thinking. Nothing is invalidated by the new Daemon book just as nothing was invalidated by the Daemonic Legions list in SoC.

This seems totally unnecessary and it sucks to be a tournament going HoC player.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Especially since the warriors are still badly overpriced. The warriors are just garbage unless you take the Banner of the Gods. And a gimmick magic item is not a substitute for good unit design. The points drop for warriors doesn’t even help unless you’re going Slaanesh or Khorne. Without one of those they’re just way too vulnerable to panic.

I think it would be good for the game/community if we as a whole completely reject this list.

It shows zero creativity, zero forethought, zero care and concern for how every single chaos mortal player used the list from the current book.

Really, 1 page of magic items? Moving the mounted marauders to special? Forcing Khorne players to include wizards to remain competitive?

This list is utter and complete garbage. Did an intern phone this in?

If there was some major power scaling down in fantasy battle going on like there is in 40k I would understand. But really - you put out some new power house VC list and then this junk? Are you kidding me?

Yes, some sort of 'bone' being thrown out there like including a new unit of cultist or whatever would have been nice but what would have been nicer is to not completely screw the HoC list.

What did you expect though? I am a chaos player so naturally i am dissapointed as everyone here cos we all wanted to carry on using the same army we did before only harder or cheaper. They were never gonna make the list really hard as it had not been properly tested it could have nuked all. i used lots of beast, beastlords and minotaurs so yes i'm screwed but.
1. they were never gonna let hounds count as core as they are too cheap
2. M.horsemen were never gonna be core as only traditionally really elfy armies have core fast cav.
3. They don't want to introduce new units in this list because then they will HAVE to have them in the new book as people will be narked if they convert some models then they become redundant.
4. The only thing thats really harsh is that there are no cheap infil core units i.e. missile troops like every other army has so for your core you really have to spend about 500pnts to make it even worthwhile.
5. Core choices are all too expensive, just compare marauders to swordsmen - dearer cost, bigger bases, dearer command, no detachments, same stats. - CW halberds to swordmasters even chosen who are now 3pnts cheaper - -1 M, WS, no strike 1st, +4 pnts each and onlyn have +1T and AS.
6. Character equipment is through the roof! its cheaper for an enchanted shield for a lord than a normal 1! why as no other army has this

So it does all look bad right? well what about 3 units of 10 marauders with flails - just use them as bait or like deatchments, only 180pnts spent then go mad on lovely dragons and knights that are a lot cheaper.
I play Tzeentch so 6+ ward saves for 20pnts on units - yes please! just 1 save and i have made points back.
Plus the items that are there are pretty good too - chaos runesword is like the blade of blood but with no test to get wound and no restriction on no. of wounds. Staff of change now never runs out and can choose which dice to reroll but cant help dispel - nice.
M.Horses now get throwing axes for 1pnt - nice (but javelins are 4 pnts - doh)
Exalted champions - good before - now T5 and 10 pnts less!

But i'm sure it will be made good in the new book, dont expect core m.horses but in the wd id does say about plastic sets for the marauders so i am guessing marauder axe throwers from MOC - as long as they skirmish and are no more than 8pnts then all is good for an infil core unit. i'll bet some ogres and things wil make the transition too.

malfred wrote:How long are you expected to use the "Get you by" list?

Two words: Chaos Dwarves.

I have an all mortal list anyway, so the new list didn't change my army that much. I don't have the Tzeentch sorcerer Lord anymore. Instead I have a lord and a sorcerer. My biggest gripe is that Marauder Horsemen don't have an option for lt. armor and shields. That's all fine and good if the new plastics don't have them, but what about all those that I have with shields?

Leggy wrote:Does anyone know how long it will be before the rules make it onto the internet? I don't really fancy buying a WD for only 3 or 4 pages worth of content.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1520011_Warriors_of_Chaos.pdf

- Salvage

I like the get you by list. What really is the problem in playing with this for 6months? Atleast the mounts of Khorne Knights and chariots are now properly frenzied. I think the list is a good start for separating all of the Chaos armies. This actually adds more variety to Warhammer than it takes away. We're going to see some really badass mortals now in the next book. I'm hoping the Knights' lances make a comeback.

Therion wrote:I like the get you by list. What really is the problem in playing with this for 6months?

Yeah, there is. I don't have the right models to form a legal 2000 point army any more. So that's a problem, in my book. Also, the army looks really boring, so why should I even bother?

Pariah Press wrote:

Therion wrote:I like the get you by list. What really is the problem in playing with this for 6months?

Yeah, there is. I don't have the right models to form a legal 2000 point army any more. So that's a problem, in my book. Also, the army looks really boring, so why should I even bother?

Why should you bother with anything? When army books are updated, people have to buy new models. People who refuse to do so will play another army or another game.

Therion wrote: I'm hoping the Knights' lances make a comeback.

Knights have lances that they can use even when not charging

sweet! 1 less thing to think about for articles.

btw: Does this mean there's no such thing as a mark of
chaos undivided?