Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Look, if you want to play a mobile force, don't play dwarfs. I generally play armies for two reasons. 1) I like the Models. 2) I like the way they play. I play Dwarfs, Lizardmen, and High Elves. Each of these have their own unique play style, and each, imo, has great models. If you don't like the play style don't play that army.

Ya, you throw down the Anvil and people automatically call cheese.

I dont really see the reason for this though, as any other major character is just as, if not more cheesy.
Archaon, Malekith, Teclis to name a few that are at least as bad in my book.

I love dwarfs!

I love the idea of weary yet hard warriors fighting for what they think is the right thing. I love their fluff. I read about lines of dwarfs slowing marching up under a hail of shot to get to grips with the foe. That is what I want to put on the table!

Instead I have a list where the tough lords like to stand on a rock.
“Aw crap. I just promised to never move, and now I am not in combat and there is a punk kid 5 feet in front of me hitting me with spitballs. I think I will just sit here and let him.”

I like the distrust of magic. I like that they feel magic needs to be trapped. I want that in my list.

Instead I have Runelords letting magic out of the anvils like bad gas.

I like the natural and nearly compulsive tinkering of the dwarves. I like the steam-punk of the gyrocopter, the ironsides of Barak Var, and the steam powered ‘wagons’ (trains) of The Underway (Undgrin). I even liked Malakai Makaisson’s goblin hewer. I want this stuff in my list.

Instead I get lightly armored gunmen with great-axes. (okay, I guess I do get the gyrocopters, but they really don’t compete with other rare choices and DOW are cheese-fest)

All I want is my list to play out like the fluff in black library and the army book.

I think some of the better fixes to make melee dwarves work would be magic items or unit abilities that slow down the enemy, make him fight you on your terms, and possibly a reduction in the penalties for being flanked. I can't imagine unflappable dwarves getting that disconcerted by folk outmanouvering them- they're damn well used to it at this stage and should know how to react!
I'd also like to see the ranged effectiveness cut down. I don't want to use the Anvil because I see it as being far too rare to fit the background I have for my army.
I'd like it if it was workable to play ubertraditionalist and ubersteampunk, melee defensive and ranged defensive. That would be the best Dwarf book I can think of and I don't think it's impossible to make.

This had been a discussion at this other forum here, sort of.

The dwarf army book does need some changes. My ideas were:
Thunderers - revert guns to 6e rules (24", move and shoot, +1 within 12", armor piercing).
Miners - revert to CORE or make S4 (inline with other special). Overhaul "underground advance", use explosives to emerge like the dirty skaven tunneling team! What?
Rangers - revert to have foresters, give them current "underground advance" (it's a flank march).

I also considered adjusting slayers, but that's another issue.

What about army wide stubborn? Fits well with the fluff, and is consistent with DE, and HE army rules.

That, Dogma, is brilliant!
That is the kind or reasoning I want!
I am not asking for the uber do-it-all army. I just want the fluff I love so much to make an appearance in my army list.

Then again, my chaos list and fluff recently was on the wrong side of a Charlie Manson get together, so I have no real hope.

Stubborn is awsome, that would just nerf hamerers.
Destroy the anvil. Replace it with funky new Rune items. If you really want to give dwarves magic, make runes that allow bound spells.
Give Dwarves something like 40k's run rule (Move d6" in the shooting phase,may not charge), just make them have to pass a Ld or T test first.
Make heavy armour standard across the board (Except for Ironbreakers).
Make MR of Kragg the Grim cheaper, and just Rune of Kragg the Grim (Allowing multi-Great Weapon builds.)
Make Gyrocopters Cheaper, allow 2-3 per Rare choice.
Allow Rare artillery to take runes.
Allow Slayer Armies.
Allow Oathstones to move, but they are one-use only and you then lose the benifits.

To Mad Dok: STOP TRYING TO NERF DWARVES!!!!!

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:Stubborn is awsome, that would just nerf hamerers.

Hammerers could just be made ITP. Seems reasonable given that they are oath-bound bodyguards to the king.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Destroy the anvil. Replace it with funky new Rune items. If you really want to give dwarves magic, make runes that allow bound spells.

I like the anvil honestly. It makes sense to me. Though I think I'd rather see it lose it movement powers.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Give Dwarves something like 40k's run rule (Move d6" in the shooting phase,may not charge), just make them have to pass a Ld or T test first.

I don't know about that. I think their movement issues are really what define the army. Though I would like to see at least a couple additional options for some extra legs. Some M6 cavalry would do it I think. Though that might just be me gunning for Dwarfs riding bears.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Make heavy armour standard across the board (Except for Ironbreakers).

It already is essentially that way.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Make MR of Kragg the Grim cheaper, and just Rune of Kragg the Grim (Allowing multi-Great Weapon builds.)

What was Kragg's rune again? I don't recall.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Make Gyrocopters Cheaper, allow 2-3 per Rare choice.

Actually, I would just prefer to see gyrocopters get better. There is currently nothing in WFHB that functions as a mobile, tough, shooting platform. Could be a cool niche.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Allow Rare artillery to take runes.

I don't think that's overly necessary.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Allow Slayer Armies.

Honestly, slayer armies are annoying beyond belief. An unbreakable enemy that doesn't crumble? Don't really want to fight that.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Allow Oathstones to move, but they are one-use only and you then lose the benifits.

Has some potential, but I think it loses some of the flavor. Not much of an oath if you can just walk off.

The master rune of Kragg the grim allows you to keep all special rules associated with a normal great weapon.

I really like the idea about the whole army being stubborn. It makes sense and I've had my 30 man unit of Ironbreakers run away more times than I can count and that just doesnt seem right to me.

dogma wrote:What about army wide stubborn? Fits well with the fluff, and is consistent with DE, and HE army rules.

Sweet jesus NO!

Just makes gunlines all the more appealing, as then the sodding Thunderers never, EVER run away!

You have Ld9 as it is...no need to add stubborn.

And as to Crazy Carnifex...once again a list of ideas which only power up and already dull army. Why the extra movement? Add that to the 6" March, and your Stunties are inexplicably capable of outpacing Elves and most Daemons. Explain the rationale behind this.

Heavy Armour....Meh. If you pay the points for it, no real complaint here.

Master Rune of the Kragg The Grim....so being able to customise your Magic Weapons isn't enough, you want them all to have +2S as well. Riiiiiight.

Gyrocopters are a complete pain to take on. Cheap, nasty breath template...takes up a Rare Slot. Why suddenly allow 2-3 per Rare Slot? They'd just double team enemy Infantry Blocks, steaming one into Oblivion every turn.

Rare Artillery with Runes? I shouldn't need to explain why this is wrong (hey, lookee, my Organ Gun now has +1S, Flaming Attacks, and can be invisible....because, like, I really don't like to think about tactics too much)

Slayer Armies....like Dogma said, they are just far too ridiculously hard. Slayers are there to take on big stuff and chin it. If I get to put say, Witch Elves up against them instead of my Hydra, you deserve to lose the Regiment.

Oathstones are about creating a solid perimeter, where the Dwarves will not shift from, not a get out of gak free item. They prevent you losing a critical unit to a sneaky flank charge, with the downside being you are now pinned in place.

How about automatically Stubborn if they are on their opponents half of the table i.e. have advanced past the midway point.

Still too harsh, and would be rarely used and whinged about on the Intarwebs.

Now, if there was a Rune that allowed you count as Stubborn for a single test (there is precedent of a sort in the Daemon Book) then sure, makes some kind of sense as a one hit wonder. But always Stubborn? Combine that with their natural WS4, T4 and loadsa armour, exactly how am I meant to take them out now?

And for those who feel I am just out to 'Nerf' stunties (though I fail to see where air powered foam rockets will aid me where Crossbows don't) try re-reading my posts. The complaint from me is that the reward from a Gunline compared to a Combat arm is too high, and rather than raise the power of Infantry (which is already highly competent) you just need to lower the power of the guns until you reach a pleasent equilibrium.

@ Mad dok. Youre right, as of right now it is far better to take a gunline dwarf list.
So, do you suggest that the gunline be tooled down, or that they make the combat oriented dwarf army a little more competetive?
I can tell you that in most of the games I play, Dwarfs will be slaughtered in combat .
HE,VC's, Bretonians and WoC are all a few of my regular opponents and a dwarf melee force cannot stand up to any of these armies.
So, as of right now, while I agree that a gunline is boring, going with the alternative is just asking to lose.

Sorry, but I just don't buy it.

The trouble with the Stunty list at the moment, that beyond a Gunline, there is little coherency in the list.

For example, Iron Breakers are horrific to fight, as they are a foot unit with the save of a fully armoured, barded Knight. Yet they just don't hit hard enough, and come from the Specials.

Longbeards can be very handy for avoiding embarassing linebreaks when you least need them.

Hammerers are good enough to work on their own, once you pop a character in there.

Miners...well, they are good enough if your opponent has stuff sitting on his baseline, otherwise they might never see a fight, and I would agree are largely wasted points.

Warriors..well, far as I'm concerned, they are quality foot troops that aren't too expensive.

Slayers? Go and get your girly Ogres, see if I care!

But there is nowhere near the reward for using these units in unison like there is without an Anvil, which is a real shame. Add in Strollaz Rune, and the fight is on your enemies doorstep before he knows whats hit him. And this is fundamentally wrong. Sure, the list with the best synergy has a massive advantage, but I shouldn't have to fork out for a single binding agent to make the whole game worth my while.

Then we look at the Gunline. Chuck in some Quarrelers with Greatweapons for a pricey but very flexible unit or two. The rest then just sit up on a hill peppering the enemy with shot. Now, rather than call it beardy, I prefer to just call it boring. How so? It tends to reduce your tactics to point and click, and the enemies tactics to legging it across the board as fast as he bloody well can hoping to have enough troops left to make a dent if or when he gets there.

The Gyrocopter, used with an Infantry list can be highly irritating for your opponent, as not only is it a highly manouverable march blocker, but can do something about his Rank bonus, giving you an easier time once it comes to combat. BUT, in a Gunline, it's worse. I don't have the time to spend hunting it down, it's slowing me down a lot, AND it's adding weight of firepower to the deluge I'm already suffering. Regardless of which army type it's supporting, I have only ever knackered Gyrocopters when my enemy has slipped up!

Now, the exact answer is beyond me. As you said, Infantry could get powered up, and that is certainly one anwer, but I fear that the Gunline would still be more popular. Nerfing the Guns isn't an option either, as you are just swinging the other way.

So perhaps a sprig of both needs to be added. Make Gunlines slightly less ubiquitous, whilst making Infantry a bit stronger. One answer could be new Runes for Boltthrowers and Grudgethrowers, that once they hit, slow down enemy units. Trouble with that, it's another Rune which becomes almost compulsory, and makes Gunlines even better, as you get longer to knacker the enemy with. As I said before, making the Anvil bound magic is an exercise in futility, as you'll rarely cast anything, but as it is now, it's not especially fair as I can't do anything about it. The answer? I dunno, perhaps tone down the effects of the runes a bit? Raise it's points? I don't think anything overly complicated needs doing, just a small tweak here and there. Perhaps, seeing as they are ancient and venerated relics of a time now past, make them like Slaan, in that should it's Runesmith and Guards get knobbled, it gives away a crapload of extra VPs? This way, you are adding incentive for me to destroy it, and making it a double edged sword (especially with Ancient Power, as you could blow it up yourself, giving me more of a chance of winning???)

None of these suggestions have been considered for very long, but I'm trying to explain my thought process when it comes to tweaking things. I don't believe that any particular unit in any army is useless or overcosted, so much that I feel other units in the same list overshadow them somewhat, so in order to return balance, rather than upgun the weak, you downgun the strong, hopefully reaching a happy medium where a variety of list builds are just as 'viable' as another for Tournament play.

A good example of this, to me, is the Dark Elf book. Helped enormously by dirt cheap Spearelves, I can create a lot of different builds from this book, without ever worrying about needing sneaky tactics to secure a win, and there are only a couple of braindead ones to boot.

Now thats better reasoning. You now sound less like someone who can't beat Dwarves and is whineing about it.
The run idea represents determined Dwarves rushing forewards fast, calling upon their legendary stammina for an extra burst of speed, while allowing for more mobile armies.
Maybe make the Gyrocopter's steam gun more like Grapeshot.
Also, for Elite infantry, give them multiple attacks to make up for the army lacking spears and two CC weapons.

I still think the best way to make dwarves work isn't to give them buffs to movement, but to give their opponent's penalties to movement. When you're a Dwarf you don't leg it around like an elf, you bring the nippy bugger down to your level and gakker him witha bloody big axe.

I'd like to see gunline as viable, but not the only way to play, and an end to the dominace of the anvil. I'd also like to see forces without a lot of warmachines be workable. I think giving the Dwarf player runes to slow down or control enemy movement in a limited fashion is the best way to do that. The rune of taunting is a good example, but others could be added- one use "half their movement for a turn" runes or special abilities of certain units.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

dogma wrote:What about army wide stubborn? Fits well with the fluff, and is consistent with DE, and HE army rules.

Sweet jesus NO!

Just makes gunlines all the more appealing, as then the sodding Thunderers never, EVER run away!

Then make projectile troops more expensive. Lord knows that stubborn thunderers would still be worth it. Or simply make more liberal use of that USR in the army. Maybe all special choices are stubborn, or maybe army wide stubborn only applies to traditionalist forces that have a more limited access to projectile weapons.

The thing is that gunlines are always going to be appealing with respect to an all infantry. If you can't use maneuver to constrict and enemy's options, you have to use shooting. There isn't any other alternative, well, aside from magic; which Dwarfs also lack.

In total that leaves two options.

1) Buff up elite infantry such that they can be viable in a game built on psychology, and maneuver.

2) Make additions to the list that allow for more speed. Probably also by forcing decisions between some of the more powerful artillery, and mobility/shock.

Personally, I would rather see option two. An army built on low-moderate speed, and ultra-tough units/characters is still plenty unique. Especially when you throw in the no magic caveat. Remember, the idea isn't necessarily to invalidate the gunline, but to provide alternatives to it.

I just see the Stubborn leading to players getting away with extremely sloppy play. For instance, the main trick for me against Stunties, where possible, is to hit them in the flank, stripping his ranks off, reducing his save by one (Shielding bonus only applies to the front!) and generally giving me a real chance at winning and him breaking. Stubborn however, makes this a more or less non-issue, as no matter how righteous a kicking the Stunties take, they just won't break most of the time. Add in the BSB, and you have a totally unassailable battleline, which I really don't agree with.

But...seeing as Stunties are happy moving about in rugged terrain, one answer might be to allow them to ignore difficult terrain? It doesn't make a game winning impact, but it makes their infantry far more attractive.

And amen to your gunline comment. Totally agree it should be left as a viable list, but needs to cease being the *only* list you ever bloody see. Well, see 80% of the time (I'm quite lucky, my usual Stunty opponent isn't that bad!)

Well... If GW wasn't trying to phase out doctrines, I would say give dwarves a system like that.
For Example:
Traditionalists: This army may not take Organ Guns, Gyrocopter or Flame cannons. Cannons are rare choices, and May not take runes. Thunderers are Moved to special. May not assign a master Engineer to a cannon. However, All Longbeards and Ironbreakers are now stuborn for +2 points. Hammerers are immune to Psychology, for +4 points.

Dwarf ReDux

These are my suggestions for a revised Dwarf Army Book.

New Rules

Drilled - Well Trained Troops, Can Perform One free formation change with out penalty, If charged to the front by Chariots the unit can split and let the chariot pass through and take no hits.

Mountaineer - Treat Difficult Terrain as Open, Extremely Difficult Terrain as Difficult.

Shield wall - All H-t-H and Shooting Attacks to the Front of the Unit are at -1 to hit.

Anvil of Doom - All of the Runes become Bound Spells with a Power of 10 (12 w/ Ancient Power). The runes are struck during the magic phase and can be dispelled. The Rune Smith can strike more then one rune a phase but for every one after the first the chance to fail increased by 1. i.e. 2+ for the 1st One, 3+ for the 2nd, 4+ for the 3rd. Similar for Ancient Power.
Include a new rune that will shutdown all magic on the field. Open to ideas.

Dwarf Handgun* - 30 inch Range, No +1 to Hit

Underground Advance** - Unit can appear anywhere within 6 inches of a table edge. If they contact a enemy unit they count as charging.

Lords

Dwarf Lord - Clarify that Lords w/ Shield Bearers are not Mounted

Master of the Guild - Lord Level Engineer, Same Cost as Dwarf Lord with stats of a Rune Lord. Same Abilities As Master Engineer but can entrench up to three War machines. Also Makes Organ Guns and Gyrocopters Special Choices, Hammerers and Iron breakers become Rare Choices. Also Can have One Extra Unit of Miners* (see below)

Core Troops

Dwarf Warriors - Drilled & Shieldwall Cost 10 Points
Long Beards Upgrade - Drilled, Shieldwall, ItP, & Old Grumblers

Quarrellers - Remove Great Weapon Option
Ranger Upgrade - +5 Pts, Great Weapon, Mountaineer, Scout, Skirmisher

Engineers - Dwarf Handgunners*
Miner Upgrade - +1, Replace Handgun with Great Weapon, Gain Drilled and Underground Advance**.

Special Troops

Hammerers - Drilled

Iron Breakers - Drilled & Shield wall, If they charge a unit they will inflict D6 S4 Impact hits due to the mass of armor hitting a unit.

Slayers - Skirmishers

Evil Eli wrote:Dwarf ReDux

These are my suggestions for a revised Dwarf Army Book.

New Rules

Drilled - Well Trained Troops, Can Perform One free formation change with out penalty, If charged to the front by Chariots the unit can split and let the chariot pass through and take no hits.

Mountaineer - Treat Difficult Terrain as Open, Extremely Difficult Terrain as Difficult.

Shield wall - All H-t-H and Shooting Attacks to the Front of the Unit are at -1 to hit.

Anvil of Doom - All of the Runes become Bound Spells with a Power of 10 (12 w/ Ancient Power). The runes are struck during the magic phase and can be dispelled. The Rune Smith can strike more then one rune a phase but for every one after the first the chance to fail increased by 1. i.e. 2+ for the 1st One, 3+ for the 2nd, 4+ for the 3rd. Similar for Ancient Power.
Include a new rune that will shutdown all magic on the field. Open to ideas.

Dwarf Handgun* - 30 inch Range, No +1 to Hit

Underground Advance** - Unit can appear anywhere within 6 inches of a table edge. If they contact a enemy unit they count as charging.

Lords

Dwarf Lord - Clarify that Lords w/ Shield Bearers are not Mounted

Master of the Guild - Lord Level Engineer, Same Cost as Dwarf Lord with stats of a Rune Lord. Same Abilities As Master Engineer but can entrench up to three War machines. Also Makes Organ Guns and Gyrocopters Special Choices, Hammerers and Iron breakers become Rare Choices. Also Can have One Extra Unit of Miners* (see below)

Core Troops

Dwarf Warriors - Drilled & Shieldwall Cost 10 Points
Long Beards Upgrade - Drilled, Shieldwall, ItP, & Old Grumblers

Quarrellers - Remove Great Weapon Option
Ranger Upgrade - +5 Pts, Great Weapon, Mountaineer, Scout, Skirmisher

Engineers - Dwarf Handgunners*
Miner Upgrade - +1, Replace Handgun with Great Weapon, Gain Drilled and Underground Advance**.

Special Troops

Hammerers - Drilled

Iron Breakers - Drilled & Shield wall, If they charge a unit they will inflict D6 S4 Impact hits due to the mass of armor hitting a unit.

Slayers - Skirmishers

Well Drilled...I like that apart from letting Chariots pass through the Regiment. Just seems a very cheap trick to avoid a perfectly valid weapon of war.

Mountaineer I like, as it gives the Infantry a real boost, without speeding them up beyond reason.

Shield Wall....I don't like it. Stunties are pain in the bum as it is when you get to combat, so why the -1 to hit?

Anvil...now that seems workable. A fairly high Casting Level, but not insumountable. Also, perhaps prevent Dispel Scrolls from affecting it? (not that I'd expect to see many against Dwarves) Could represent the legendary power of the Runes?

Handgun...30"....why would anyone take Quarrelers? Perhaps drop the +1 to hit and leave it at that?

Underground Advance. I'd remove the charging part. Bit cheap for taking out enemy artillery?

Dwarf Lord, fine. No problems there.

Master of the Guild....Entrenching is okay, but making Organs Guns and Gyrocopters special isn't right. Perhaps allow one of either as as an upgrade for him, or allow one of either to be selected as a single Special Choice. Otherwise it really is just encouraging Gunlining, especially as two of the better Infantry units are then moved to Rare?

Quarrelers I like.

Slayers shouldn't really be Skirmishers. Not keen on the idea of Stunty Skirmishers at all. It's not in character, and Unbreakable Skirmishers are way, way too hard!

Iron Breakers causing impact hits...I just don't see Dwarves building up the impetus to have that. Remember, even Ogres (who are very large, very heavy, exceedingly violent and fast moving) need to move at least 6" to get this....

But yeah, there you go. Again, please bear in mind my philosophy that the guns need toning down and the infantry toning up in order to promote multiple feasible builds!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Evil Eli wrote:Dwarf ReDux


Well Drilled...I like that apart from letting Chariots pass through the Regiment. Just seems a very cheap trick to avoid a perfectly valid weapon of war.

This is a rule I borrowed from WAB. It it a pretty legit historical tactic.

Mountaineer I like, as it gives the Infantry a real boost, without speeding them up beyond reason.

It seemed Dwarfy and made sense.

Shield Wall....I don't like it. Stunties are pain in the bum as it is when you get to combat, so why the -1 to hit?

This is another rule I borrowed from WAB, Dwarfs are roughly modeled on the Saxon and Vikings and it just seemed dwarfy.

Anvil...now that seems workable. A fairly high Casting Level, but not insurmountable. Also, perhaps prevent Dispel Scrolls from affecting it? (not that I'd expect to see many against Dwarves) Could represent the legendary power of the Runes?

The Anvil is tricky and currently over powered, You got to give your opponent a chance.

Handgun...30"....why would anyone take Quarrelers? Perhaps drop the +1 to hit and leave it at that?

Points, Quarrlers are cheaper and the only way to get rangers.

Underground Advance. I'd remove the charging part. Bit cheap for taking out enemy artillery?

Not really, The opponent just set up Seven Inches in.

Dwarf Lord, fine. No problems there.

Master of the Guild....Entrenching is okay, but making Organs Guns and Gyrocopters special isn't right. Perhaps allow one of either as as an upgrade for him, or allow one of either to be selected as a single Special Choice. Otherwise it really is just encouraging Gunlining, especially as two of the better Infantry units are then moved to Rare?

Yeah He does promote gunlining, but remember no ANVIL!

Quarrelers I like.

Slayers shouldn't really be Skirmishers. Not keen on the idea of Stunty Skirmishers at all. It's not in character, and Unbreakable Skirmishers are way, way too hard!

I have always thought that idea of a unit of slayers were silly period. I have always imagined them more like NG fanatics and you would hide them in units and spring them on oppponents.

Iron Breakers causing impact hits...I just don't see Dwarves building up the impetus to have that. Remember, even Ogres (who are very large, very heavy, exceedingly violent and fast moving) need to move at least 6" to get this....

It was just a thought, Right now they nothing more then a glorified Road Block. I thought maybe giving them Hatred for Skaven,

But yeah, there you go. Again, please bear in mind my philosophy that the guns need toning down and the infantry toning up in order to promote multiple feasible builds!

I do understand.

Trouble is unless the WAB rules are dropped into others, the Stunties get a noticable upkick in their HTH combat abilties, particularly where Chariots are concerned. It's rare enough one survives long enough to charge the short arses, without them simply doing a ZZ Top as it passes!

I like the drilled and mountaineer rules a lot.
I agree that letting chariots pass by seems a little overpowered.
I do think though that Slayers should be skirmishers, but I think that the max unit size would have to be dropped.

30 skirmishing crazies would be cool but broken. Maybe down to like 15 or so.

I also think the shield wall is a feasible option against shooting but not HTH. My thinking here is that ironbreakers would become too much of an uber-unit.

Maybe, for Thunderers+Quarrellers, leave the Thunderers w. +1 to hit, but give quarrellers the option to move and shoot.

I think slayers should be Rare choice. There has to be fewer mentally screwed up dwarfs then there are longbeards or ironbreakers. Small units 5-10man. Skirmish, upgrade any number to giant slayers.

I would like some of the technological marvels to move to special. If the plans for organ guns/flame cannons are the same in every hold, and they function on the field, what thane wouldn't have a few on hand. You can make them 0-1/ +1 per Engineer Hero.

And I know it sounds cheesy, but I would like a tank like contraption. It makes sense for dwarfs to have one. Make it two rare choices. Make it expensive. But above all, make a model!

Why would you want to take Dwarves away from a gunline?

Thats like saying "i want to run a TK army with 0 magic." or "I want to run an all gnoblar OK list"

It just makes no sense fluff wise is all....

Dwarfs are supposed to be these great warriors and that is just not reflected in the rules right now.

I wouldnt say anybody is trying to take away the gunline, I just think that something needs to change combat wise to reflect the nature of Dwarfs better.

I dont necessarily agree, I think that a unit of longbeard rangers + miners being backed up by warriors and a few gyrocopters is a great army.