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This sounds very encouraging. I don't play IG at the moment, but this will probably get my into them.

Hey, where's HBMC? He'd usually be the first here to make witty about these rumours.

So:

- 4pts/guardsmen
- good tanks
- vox casters are useful
- ogryns rock

I'm happy

If that is all the changes they have made to Ogryns then they have not fixed Ogryns they have merely made them harder to kill.

Well, I imagine the points have been adjusted. We'll have to wait and see until someone starts REALLY leaking Codex info.

Are there any info on the 3rd chimera variant
Melta plasma?

Salamanders?

That means the IG finally have a fast tank!

w00t!

George Spiggott wrote:If that is all the changes they have made to Ogryns then they have not fixed Ogryns they have merely made them harder to kill.

Which would help. Mind you, I'd've rather taken power weapons and Stubborn, but being able to shrug off bolter fire like a swarm of gnats will be appreciated nonetheless. Being harder to kill would help them accomplish their objectives better, even with no change in their offensive capacities.

Assuming these rule changes are true, Ogryn will still be powerfist bait, and will have a tough time beating a PF-carrying tactical squad even when they get the charge. That T4 3W will be very tricky to mitigate against a lot of foes. However, anything without instant death (or massed power weapons) will probably get slapped around pretty good.

Against a 30-boy CC mob, if the Ogryn get the countercharge, will result in 11 dead orks, 2.25 return wounds from boyz, and 3.75 wounds from the PK. You're looking at 2 dead Ogryn (since the ones with the wounds from the boyz will get ID from the klaw at a later I step), and a mediocre win of 11-6. Sadly, no matter how much you thin that mob, it's the PK doing all the damage so I don't imagine the Ogryn will do you much good there.

The more I think about it, the more I like the Ogryn this way. Big, bumbling dummies who wander through hails of bullets, laughing stupidly and drooling slightly while they bash in heads. They're still technically human, however, and come apart when caught by any shot with some serious oomph like anybody else....

Moral of Story then is don't send them into a full unit of Orks without using your frankly prodigious firepower in the rest of the army to soften them up somewhat...

BTW, love the comparrison. Whats the points ratio to that then? How much does each side cost?

For what it's worth, I don't believe Ogryns will stay at 3 wounds each, or that Ripper guns will remain unmodified. We still don't have the full picture, I feel.

So what do we think of the Chimera box including three different vehicle variants? I can only really see it including

Hellhound/Salamander Scout/Salamander Command

I can't really see the Chimera box including parts for a Basilisk/Medusa/Griffon...

It's hard to imagine, given that the salamander variants use an open rear section, and there are no other turreted Chimerae. If I had to guess, I'd say we'll see more Chimera weapon variants, maybe even the old three.

Chimera, Chimedon (Battle Cannon Turret from old Epic) and quite possibly Hellhound...

Just guess work.

Tell you what though, as a line holding unit, I reckon 10 Ogryns with a Commissar would be damned good. Tough to put down, unlikely to break and run...

A Rough Rider Command Squad would actually make this the most perfect IG codex since second edition.

Nice set of rumors, but the change in defensive weapons for some variants is not cool. Why making an universial rule when some armies can break it? Especially Guard that ain't famed for their move and fire vehicles...

Can Ogryns be instant killed by a Power klaw? I mean they are T5 and Power klaw is S8 afaik.

Greets
Schepp himself

Power Klaw on the Charge is S10 right?

ahem ihave to say this.....

DID SOMEONE SAY ARBITES???

GW had a long tradition in WFB of giving each army an ability to 'ignore' one general rule. Dwarves could always march move, high elves got cheaper magic items, etc.

The Leman Russ is based on a WWI tank design, which had individual gunners. The Predator is based on a more modern light armored vehicle, with a signficantly smaller main gun and presumably smaller crew (iirc, it's 2 - driver and commander/gunner). I have no problem with the Leman Russ having a special "Sponson gunners" rule that lets its sponsons fire with the main gun (and hopefully, at separate targets). It would help display the differences between the vehicles - big heavy, multi-crew main tank vs. light, small-crew armored vehicle.

And I'd have to do some search-fu, but I was mocked after Fifth Edition when, in the wake of all these IG players wanting to rip off their sponsons, I said something to the effect of, "IG is right around the corner, who knows what GW will do. Maybe Leman Russes can fire their sponsons in addition to the main gun because they have extra crew."

It shouldn't be, unless the wielder has a natural S5. IIRC, Nobz have S4 and Furious charge, in which case the +1 on charge is added after doubling.

The Defenestrator wrote:Assuming these rule changes are true, Ogryn will still be powerfist bait, and will have a tough time beating a PF-carrying tactical squad even when they get the charge. That T4 3W will be very tricky to mitigate against a lot of foes. However, anything without instant death (or massed power weapons) will probably get slapped around pretty good.

Against a 30-boy CC mob, if the Ogryn get the countercharge, will result in 11 dead orks, 2.25 return wounds from boyz, and 3.75 wounds from the PK. You're looking at 2 dead Ogryn (since the ones with the wounds from the boyz will get ID from the klaw at a later I step), and a mediocre win of 11-6. Sadly, no matter how much you thin that mob, it's the PK doing all the damage so I don't imagine the Ogryn will do you much good there.

The more I think about it, the more I like the Ogryn this way. Big, bumbling dummies who wander through hails of bullets, laughing stupidly and drooling slightly while they bash in heads. They're still technically human, however, and come apart when caught by any shot with some serious oomph like anybody else....

No they won't. Powerclaws on Nobz are capped at str. 9, they would have to be str. 10 to insta kill Ogryns. Warbosses could do it, but they are rare in the army.

If they remain 40 points a piece, you can easily fit 5 for 200 points. Now you are talking about 15 wounds on 5 models that have a very short list on what can insta kill them.

Thoughness 5 is where they should have always been.

Death By Monkeys wrote:
- The Stormtrooper greens with the shotguns do not imply that IG Stormtroopers will be getting shotguns, but are instead for WH Arbites-style Stormtroopers.

- Stormtroopers will not be released in the first wave, but instead may be released with an Inquisitor supplement oriented around Planetfall.

Is this the first we've heard about an Inquisitor Supplement? Am I the only one getting geekwood over this?

If the rumors about Ogryns are true...I will definitely be fielding them. I've waited for about a decade to finally field those guys again. I'm glad I picked up the new ones for 30% off!

Capt K

Schepp himself wrote:Nice set of rumors, but the change in defensive weapons for some variants is not cool. Why making an universial rule when some armies can break it? Especially Guard that ain't famed for their move and fire vehicles...

I have been expecting something like this from the start. The first codex out after the rules change broke the defensive fire rule (SM Land Raider) the IG codex is merely the first in a long line. My money's on Tau next.

Orgyns are not as susceptible to Powerfisting as they were (S10 Power fists are much less common) but unless their offensive abilities are raised vs. high armour units (Space Marines, Necrons, Tyranid Monstrous Creatures etc.) they'll still be dust gatherers. I'm not sure they needed the boost vs. weaker attacks either (T5 and FNP).

The morale rules being based upon wounds not kills and their inability to even the wound score vs. high armour will do for more Ogryns than powerfists (which by rights should kill Ogryns).

I dunno matey. Sure, Terminators will rip them a new one, but they do get a fair amount of S5 HTH attacks, so they can do a bit of damage.

However, I think their main strength will lie in bogging down Swarm units and other troops. For example, if you can get them clobbering an Ork Mob, thats one less target for your Guard to worry about, allowing you to further concentrate your firepower on other units.

My brother once scared the pants off my Tau. He had two units of Stormtroopers in Chimera backed up by a squad of Ogryns similarly mounted. The Ogryns jumped the Broadsides and took them out of the equation for a good few turns, whilst the Stormtroopers rapidfired into my Firewarriors. The confusion this caused me (so didn't expect it!) ruined my plans that day. Of course, once aware of the nastiness of this, subsequent applications weren't so successful, but it always forced me to direct my firepower at the Ogryns first.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:I dunno matey. Sure, Terminators will rip them a new one...

And rightly so. However there's no chance of a single Sergeant with a Powerfist wiping out half the squad on the charge now.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:But they do get a fair amount of S5 HTH attacks, so they can do a bit of damage.

They get +2 to damage vs. Terminators (to hit and save are identical) for over four times the cost. Point for point they're comparable with guardmen in combat if they initiate combat (guardsmen obviously outclass them at range as you would expect).

Ogryns *Need* Rending not FNP with their 4+ save and T5.

George Spiggott wrote:

Schepp himself wrote:Nice set of rumors, but the change in defensive weapons for some variants is not cool. Why making an universial rule when some armies can break it? Especially Guard that ain't famed for their move and fire vehicles...

I have been expecting something like this from the start. The first codex out after the rules change broke the defensive fire rule (SM Land Raider) the IG codex is merely the first in a long line. My money's on Tau next.

Orgyns are not as susceptible to Powerfisting as they were (S10 Power fists are much less common) but unless their offensive abilities are raised vs. high armour units (Space Marines, Necrons, Tyranid Monstrous Creatures etc.) they'll still be dust gatherers. I'm not sure they needed the boost vs. weaker attacks either (T5 and FNP).

The morale rules being based upon wounds not kills and their inability to even the wound score vs. high armour will do for more Ogryns than powerfists (which by rights should kill Ogryns).

See i think this fits more with where they are for the army. Mowing down units with a lower save, but still not ripping up whole space marine squads in one go. On the flipside, those little units can't hurt them at all. Your opponent wil need to divert a pretty decent unit to deal with them, all the while the ogryns are picking on the weakest units and taking no casualties from them. Like a bully in middle school.

-sound of angelic choir-

Originally, I told myself I was only going to get a Valk or two, and obviously the Codex, but now, I really want the get the Command squad! It sounds pretty sweet.

Rough Riders on Bikes, hopefully.

I like the sounds of the Ogryn rumors, but as my army hates abhumans I'll probably just say that it's humans in some sort of power armor.

I heard that Primaris psykers had good rules from someone, so if their models are indeed bad then I'll probably just buy something off of Forgeworld.

Um, as for Ratlings, I'll just use human snipers if their rules happen to be good.

But seriously, my 1500 point army is probably going to go down to...probably 1250. Hrm...oh well! More Valkryies for me then.

Sounds pretty nice - obviously the =I=supplement/Planetfall bit even more so, but all the love Guard gets is sooooo welcome. I can add to my guard army, but also all human type conversions

Ogryns being worthwhile makes me glad I bought those FW Berserker Ogryn models to paint.

The great thing is that you don't need to model them with weapons cuz they already have twinlinked guns.

Good stuff in here.

And, as has been mentioned already, should we be worried about H.B.M.C.?

Our resident IG curmudgeon hasn't made an appearance in some time, even with all these IG rumors surfacing...