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I Seriously don't think the warlord is that small, in the artwork its at least 40" when scaled

Foda_Bett wrote:
Well considering for years GW declared that a rhino could hold 10 marines

Years back somebody actually converted an interior for the original Rhino, with a driver, engine compartment, working doors/hatches, and benches seating 10 space marines.

SonsOfLoki wrote:I Seriously don't think the warlord is that small, in the artwork its at least 40" when scaled

I think the artwork makes it appear huge because Imperators are rarely seen, so they keep displaying the Warlord as OMFGHUGE! instead. My Mk.II Warlord is 2 1/8" high to the top of the carapace (can't find my metric tape measure). That's 53.98mm, or just under 9 times the height of an Epic infantryman. 9 * 28mm ~ 10 inches

EDIT: *Looks back at chart* Wow, they must have REALLY scaled up the Warhound and Reaver when Forgeworld made 40k versions.

Noble713 wrote:..Epic infantryman. 9 * 28mm ~ 10 inches

You're calculation's fatal flaw is in this part of your statement. Problem is, you're multiplying 28mm nine times. The miniatures are not 28mm tall. They are in the 28mm scale range, but they are taller than that. It's all in the definition of the scale measurement. Miniature scales are defined by the distance from the soles of the feet (not including any type of base) to the eyes. A typically sized man (from 5'8" to 5'10" in actual height) would be sized to measure approximately 28mm from feet to eye level. Note that GW takes a great deal of artistic license with scale in every aspect of their IP from mini size to artwork to pricing. It's ALL out-of-whack.

At any rate, your mathematical outcome changes dramatically with the correct application of scale model theory.



Ghidorah

SonsOfLoki wrote:I Seriously don't think the warlord is that small, in the artwork its at least 40" when scaled

40k artwork does not have a great track record of being scaled properly. I wouldn't rely on it for any kind of measurement.

And seriously, the FW reaver is 18". Why would a warlord be 40" all of a sudden?

About time, the scaling is correct, there is some leeway for various models of titan. So the Armourcast/old Epic pattern Reaver and Warhound is slightly smaller, the design is canon its just made on a different Forgeworld.

These are the relevant figures:

REAVER 16" to 18"
WARLORD c24"
IMPERATOR c36"

Way too many titans being built are for some reason almost exactly one size bracket too large.

The Dreadnote wrote:

SonsOfLoki wrote:I Seriously don't think the warlord is that small, in the artwork its at least 40" when scaled

40k artwork does not have a great track record of being scaled properly. I wouldn't rely on it for any kind of measurement.

And seriously, the FW reaver is 18". Why would a warlord be 40" all of a sudden?

Case in point. GW lets its artists have a lot of flexibility, with emphasis being allowed to override scale. its an old technique:


Attack of the 50 foot pharoah or artistic licence.




You might wish to think this is an Imperatior, but its a picture of Imperius Dictatio the character Warlord titan. Note how it dwarfs mountains.


Here we have mountain sized warlord titans again. From the ground scale that thing is clearly several hundred metres tall.


But its not.

Canon scales for warlord titans are consistent and based on the models and most freehand art with the models in relation to other units. The graphic novel series Titan has some way out cover art but content art is a consistent 'accurate' Epic scale.

From Grahm McNiell's False Gods, "the Imperator-class Titan... stood forty-three meters tall on crenellated bastion legs, each one capable of mounting a full company of soldiers and their supporting troops." (p18)

I think the reason people are making these awesome and perhaps oversize titans is that the descriptions dont seem to match the sizes they give. I mean the spruce goose had a wingspan of like 90+ meters. Admittedly it was made out of wood instead of adamantium or whatever but they should have made the titans titanic!

Ahh where do I find the data sheet on the Imperiator Titan? I havent seen it yet.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2440056_Imperial_Datasheet_-_Emperor_Battle_Titan.pdf

And for other apocalypse datasheets, see here.

Some things are small, and other things are far away.

The scale in Graham McNeil's book can't be right. That's too tiny.

Imperators are huge. Has anyone scaled the cover to Titan Legions, looking at the guys coming out of the Imperator's feet and then scaling it for the rest of the Titan?

Can I ask a stupid question?

In the original "scale" picture, I don't see the word "Imperator" anywhere.

Does "Imperator" = "Emperor" on that chart?

Thanks

Cool thanks Dreadnote

RiTides Nids wrote:Does "Imperator" = "Emperor" on that chart?

Imperator Titans and Warmonger Titans are all Emperor-Class Titans. So essentially they are all one in the same.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The scale in Graham McNeil's book can't be right. That's too tiny.

Imperators are huge. Has anyone scaled the cover to Titan Legions, looking at the guys coming out of the Imperator's feet and then scaling it for the rest of the Titan?

The Commissar at the top of the steps on the right foot (left in the image) is 1/4" tall (Epic scale, oddly enough). The Imperator is about 7 1/2". (7.5 / 0.25) * 2m = 60m. That's probably a conservative figure.

Actually I make the height of an imperator about 50m. Imperial Armour 3 puts the height of a warhound at 14m, so (14/10)*36 = 50.4m, or 165.4 feet.

Though looking at the sizes of some real-world objects, suddenly the imperator seems pretty small...

The Dreadnote wrote:Actually I make the height of an imperator about 50m.

Noble713 wrote:The Commissar at the top of the steps on the right foot (left in the image) is 1/4" tall (Epic scale, oddly enough). The Imperator is about 7 1/2". (7.5 / 0.25) * 2m = 60m. That's probably a conservative figure.

Where do you people keep pulling these wacky measurements from? Where do you get the data that has you "make the height of an Imperator about 50m"?

First off, the epic Commissar isn't 1/4" tall. He is 8mm (just under 1/4"). Epic 40k is measured in metric, not Imperial. Then you multiply 1/4" (imperial) by 2m (metric). 2m in imperial measurement is about 6.5 feet. As the Commissar is just a regular human male, not a genetically enhanced super-human (Space Marine) and the average height of a human male is 5'7" - 5'8", how can you justify multiplying him by 6.5 feet? After searching the 'net for "Average height of a human male", I found that most places list the average between 1.63m - 1.86m with some variations both ways. Most leaned towards the 1.74m-1.78 range, however. Taking that over to imperial, that's about 5"3" (I seriously doubt this to be an accurate representation of the human male average) to 6'1" (also not likely), with the more common average being about 5'7"-5'9".

I can't find my Imperator titan (thanks to Mrs. Ghidorah "cleaning" my basement) so I can't get an actual measurement to work out the math. This is a good thing, though, as I really suck at math.

FOUND IT! (take that, Mrs. Ghidorah!)

So, he's 135mm tall, from the bottom of his foot to the top of his tallest spire (back ones). 135mm or 5.3".

Epic 40k is 1/300 scale, so 1" equals 300". So, in real-world inches (if he were an actual war engine), he would be about 1590" or 132.5 feet tall. (5.3"*300 scale inches = 1590", then, 1590"/12 inches in a foot = 132.5').

Somebody see my prior statement about math and then check mine...



Point I'm trying to make, I guess, is A) you can't multiply inches by meters and, B) I'm hungry. The only logical way to determine a Titan's ACTUAL height, be it in real life or scaled for 40k, is by using the ONLY hard and fast ACTUAL evidence we have, and that is the Epic models. You can't go by art in a book, on a poster, in a comic book, words in a novel, or some tool's 3 and-a-half foot Warlord that he built out of PVC and Gummi Bears.

The artwork and novels are a terrible source for determining titan heights simply because each author or artist has their own representation. That's why they call it "artistic license". Even in the sidebar art in the Epic 40,000 rulebooks Titans are shown in different scales. On the cover of issue 4 of Firepower magazine, there's a Beetleback Warlord (Mk.I), the smallest of the Warlords with Marines at his feet. They don't even come up to the top of his toes...




Ghidorah

Ghidorah wrote:Where do you people keep pulling these wacky measurements from?

From the cover of the Titan Legions rulebook, as HBMC was just asking about.

First off, the epic Commissar isn't 1/4" tall. He is 8mm (just under 1/4"). Epic 40k is measured in metric, not Imperial.

The one on the cover of Titan Legions is 1/4" tall. Look at the base of the right foot, top of the steps, just in front of the central arch/doorway. I can't find any of my metric tape measures. I'm using the resources at my disposal.

2m in imperial measurement is about 6.5 feet. As the Commissar is just a regular human male, not a genetically enhanced super-human (Space Marine) and the average height of a human male is 5'7" - 5'8", how can you justify multiplying him by 6.5 feet?

Chalk it up to intellectual laziness.

Point I'm trying to make, I guess, is A) you can't multiply inches by meters

I didn't. 7.5 inches / 0.25 inches * 2 meters. The inches cancel out in the height ratio. The only unit of measure left is meters.

If you count this as evidence (and I see no valid reason not to) then a height of 50m is easy to obtain. The forgeworld warhound titan is about 10 inches tall, which gives you a rough imperator height of 36 inches, as you can see at the start of the topic. Imperial armour 3 also states that the warhound titan is 14 metres tall. Multiply that by 3.6 (because the theoretical imperator is 3.6 times taller than a warhound) and you get 50.4m.

I stress once again that I have not used epic miniatures in any calculations or images. I have used only forgeworld's 40k-scale titans, and the size comparisons published by games workshop for apocalypse. I see no reason why either of these sources is anything less than valid - though of course I am always open to correction.

Noble713 wrote:

Ghidorah wrote:Where do you people keep pulling these wacky measurements from?

From the cover of the Titan Legions rulebook, as HBMC was just asking about.

First off, the epic Commissar isn't 1/4" tall. He is 8mm (just under 1/4"). Epic 40k is measured in metric, not Imperial.

The one on the cover of Titan Legions is 1/4" tall. Look at the base of the right foot, top of the steps, just in front of the central arch/doorway. I can't find any of my metric tape measures. I'm using the resources at my disposal.

I will point you to my reasoning that you can't go by artwork. Let alone, artwork off of a box lid.

The Dreadnote wrote:I have used only forgeworld's 40k-scale titans, and the size comparisons published by games workshop for apocalypse.

Fair enough. Sound logic as far as I'm concerned. I would also like to point out that, until your post here, I was unaware of that GW Datasheet.

Plus, 36" sounds about right for an Imperator to me. That would be about how tall I would make it, were I to undertake that project. What irks me to no end is when people make Warlords that big.



Ghidorah

Ah, then we're of the same mind on the subject. Glad to have enlightened you!

Edit: I've added that link to the original post, to save confusion in future.

IIRC, recently when reporting on FW open day in the UK a poster stated that the FW guys use a X6.5 to scale Epic vehichles/titans up to 40K scale.

Commodore Perry

I thought at a games day they made an imperial and chaos imperiator titan-for the siege of the emperors palace. And im sure there are pictures of it on the net. cool idea

dirkthe1 wrote:I thought at a games day they made an imperial and chaos imperiator titan-for the siege of the emperors palace. And im sure there are pictures of it on the net. cool idea

The only diorama I know of like that features Mk.III Warlords. And, IIRC, they were frickin' huge.

http://www.sodemons.com/gwmuseum/chaostitanx.jpg

Ya, that's way too big.

Noble713 wrote:

dirkthe1 wrote:I thought at a games day they made an imperial and chaos imperiator titan-for the siege of the emperors palace. And im sure there are pictures of it on the net. cool idea

The only diorama I know of like that features Mk.III Warlords. And, IIRC, they were frickin' huge.

http://www.sodemons.com/gwmuseum/chaostitanx.jpg

Ya, that's way too big.

And the thing is, in a universe with titans of that size, why would the walls be so low?

Noble713 wrote:

dirkthe1 wrote:I thought at a games day they made an imperial and chaos imperiator titan-for the siege of the emperors palace. And im sure there are pictures of it on the net. cool idea

The only diorama I know of like that features Mk.III Warlords. And, IIRC, they were frickin' huge.

http://www.sodemons.com/gwmuseum/chaostitanx.jpg

Ya, that's way too big.

Could be bigger...

combatmedic wrote:

Noble713 wrote:

dirkthe1 wrote:I thought at a games day they made an imperial and chaos imperiator titan-for the siege of the emperors palace. And im sure there are pictures of it on the net. cool idea

The only diorama I know of like that features Mk.III Warlords. And, IIRC, they were frickin' huge.

http://www.sodemons.com/gwmuseum/chaostitanx.jpg

Ya, that's way too big.

Could be bigger...

Could be female... You know, from a "Women of the Adeptus Titanicus" diorama or something?
You could make the chest armor be *actual* rocket boobs...



Ghidorah

I dunno exactly how tall the model was, but using an extremely rough estimation, it looks about imperator size. The one-bracket-higher effect strikes again!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've updated the image to include the Tyranid Heirophant and the Eldar Revenant titans. Mainly because I could.

Size comparison round 2 - Titans versus The World



Building images courtesy of Jeff Russell's Starship Dimensions, the most awesome site I know of for anyone interested in the relative sizes of spaceships (and who isn't?).

When you put them up next to such monuments...they kinda loose their awe factor...

lose.



Ghidorah