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GW's scale is only proprietary to the degree that it is made 'heroic' which basically means malproportioned.

They can get away with that inside their own IP zone of Spase Mariens (Hurr!!,) weird looking tanks, and so on.

I don't see it working for WW2.

Osbad wrote:I just got hold of the new Wargames Illustrated (http://www.wargamesillustrated.net/) from my local newsagent this lunchtime and came across an interesting news item:

Apparently at the Historical Wargames group held at Warhammer World last month, Warwick Kinrade was demonstrating a new WWII game that Forgeworld are planning to release next year. Apparently it is aimed at 20mm or 15mm rather than 28mm and has a planned release date of "early on" next year. The mechanics are reported as owing nothing to Warhammer.

No comment about whether figures will accompany the rules, although it sounds unlikely looking at the comment about it being applicable for a couple of (admittedly only slightly) different scales. Could be the first fruits of Warhammer Historical's subsumation within Forgeworld? An interesting rival to FoW?

There has been some talk about this on The Miniatures Page (TMP), and they seemed to think it was going to be 28mm skirmish. If that is the case, I'd be in, especially if FW was doing ww2 models in that scale.

If its 20mm or 15mm, and set up to have larger numbers of models, a la 40k, then I'm out.

No need for Forge World.

http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/28mm-ww2-bolt-action-101-c.asp

I'd like them to go along the lines of what they do with Warhammer Historical: they crank out rules and leave most of the minis to other companies, which they gratefully point people towards. The Perry's sculpt the odd Historical model every now and then to coincide with new releases, but mostly other companies provide the minis.

Kilkrazy wrote:No need for Forge World.

http://shop.warlordgames.co.uk/28mm-ww2-bolt-action-101-c.asp

Totally agreed. Those, any of the Weird War 2 models, AE-WW2, etc. would work, not to mention all of the 25mm historical companies out there.

I also agree with BrookM that for them to just do the rules would be fine. Although, the FW model is 'cast em when they're ordered', so making molds for models that may not sell a ton isn't a huge investment.

I wonder if I could 'counts as' those Krieg models... I kid, I kid

If only they had sculptors who did WWII figures on a heroic scale.

This actually sounds like a done thing, but sounds like it will be rules, not miniatures. From wargames illustrated:

The Historical Wargamers Group, in association with Wargames Illustrated, held another successful event at Warhammer World on 24 - 25 October, WAB players from around Europe did battle across several campaign settings and attendees were treated to a bonus surprise appearance when Warwick Kinrade of Forgeworld demonstrated the forthcoming Games Workshop World War II game.

Warwick ran through a game in which a British Battlegroup stormed a German held position in Normandy circa 1944 - the British sector in Normandy being the focus for the rulebook. The game is designed for 20mm figures although it will work equally well with 15mm (adjustments will be necessary for 28mm). Interestingly the game seemed to owe little to the well-known Warhammer game system.

The game is still work in progress with a release date of "next year - hopefully early on" planned. The core rulebook will be supported by further supplements, which will include more army lists and (further down the line) more threatres of the war).

20mm = 1:72 = win!

I shall be interested to see the new 'non Warhammer' rule system, even though I'm not really interested in WW2.

Osbad wrote:There are lots of WWII rulesets out there. One of the most accessible for former GW players (in that it plays a bit like 40k in that you need a handful of dice, you have squads and an army about the size of a 40k one, you have similar concepts such as "saving throws", etc.) is Battlefield Evolution: World at War (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/miniature/detail.php?qsID=1591&qsSeries=47. At £15 for the rulebook its worth a punt. And it plays ok at pretty much any scale. I play at 20mm scale on a 6x4 board, but it would work equally well with probably anything from 10mm to 40mm scale. Even 6mm on a smaller table or 54mm on a bigger one wouldn't be too bad.

How would the rules work with my buckets of A&A: Mini's

As it stands, with all other warhammer historicals - they don't produce any miniatures at all.

I'd bet that any FW involvement is purely in the rules aspect. As they already produce their own army lists in the IA books.


The Warhammer Historical book : Age of Arthur was awesome by the way...

JohnHwangDD wrote:The problem for GW here is their proprietary scale model stuff.

FoW does 15mm, and players can leverage existing 15mm models.

If GW did 15mm, they'd compete with FoW, and likely see a lot of non-GW models being used.

So I can see GW going a bit larger to 20mm just to be "different", like 54mm Inquisitor and 10mm Warmaster...

It would be a shame to see them try and compete with Flames of War. Foolish too, the redundancy of a genre that is already well covered.

I'll throw in my vote/hope for a 28mm skirmish game. GW quality models and vehicles would be excellent.

I'd never buy their rules again though. You know the saying "Fool me four times, Shame the *^$@ on me!" (said while looking at four 40K armies, 2 WHFB armies, and a dumpster full of redundant reissues of the same crappy rules)

Interrogator-Chaplain Severus

Is the WWII market really big enough for another miniature line? I thought several companies already had figures out for a good number of years now in a variety of scales.

Breotan wrote:Is the WWII market really big enough for another miniature line? I thought several companies already had figures out for a good number of years now in a variety of scales.

He he. I'm chuckling at the number of posts from people who actually don't appear to read the original or many subsequent posts!

OK, I'll repeat it again. Read my lips people. No one is claiming that GW are about to produce WWII models in 28mm, 20mm, 15mm, 1:72 or any other scale. Clear?

This looks likes a new set of rules for WWII gaming which is being put out by a staff member who happens to work for Forgeworld. Forgeworld being the internal division of GW that recently took over the responsibilities of the now-defunct division of GW formally known as "Warhammer Historical".

This is no major departure, but simply interesting because it is (a) news I hadn't seen posted anywhere else, (b) a new period for the company's historical division to be getting into, and (c) reported as being non-derivative of 40k, which for many of us who aren't keen on 40k is a positive thing!

*wanders off chuckling into his beer belly*

The world is big enough for dozens of lines of Ancients figures.

GW don't make Ancients figures but they have two sets of Ancients rules.

I think if GW are looking at WWII they have missed the boat here. There are tons of 15mm systems out there and a good handful of 20 / 28mm systems. Rules of Engagement is a lovely set of rules and I can't see GW bettering them. The guys at Great Escape Games have done a hell of a lot research and made the system balanced and realistic, GW would over power it. In most WWII games Tigers / Panthers / King Tigers are rare and expensive, GW would allow buckets of them so that they can sell loads of models

Well, I think you are misunderstanding the nature of historical gamers. We all love new rules. And if it means we don't have to buy and paint any new figures to go with them, so much the better. I myself own 4 sets of WWII rules, but only one set of figures. Adding another to that list is no big deal.

The business models for 40k and for historical gaming are very different. Historical gaming isn't so much a case of being locked into a complete system (although Battlefront have tried to make it so with FoW), as a case of picking a period and scale you like and trying out rulesets to see which ones you like the best. 20mm WWII gaming has been around since the 1960's and isn't going anywhere soon. It makes sense if they have a staffer interested to earn a few quid by publishing a book into that market.

My one worry is in relation to the quality of the publication itself. If their production values match the quality of the latter Warhammer Historical publications (e.g. "Great War" and "Age of Arthur") then I'll be pleased. If they are as basic and lacking in imagination and colour as the Forgeworld "Imperial Armour" series I shall be severely disappointed.

Not only Warlord but http://www.renegademiniatures.com/index.html also.
The Perry twins sculpt a bit more than "the odd miniature" http://www.perry-miniatures.com/index2.html

Funny that one of their selling points is going to be "not-40k rules system!" (my quotes, not theirs)

They'll probably re-phrase it as Dynamic New System or something.

JohnHwangDD wrote:So I can see GW going a bit larger to 20mm just to be "different", like 54mm Inquisitor and 10mm Warmaster...

And look at how strong thaose game systems are...

I'd like 1:72 as I want to paint some 1:72 WW2 planes.

Personally I find 1:72 a marvellous excuse to dig out my old Airfix and Matchbox soldiers again.

No more GW products for me until they radically change. Flames of War sounds highly tempting to me.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:So I can see GW going a bit larger to 20mm just to be "different", like 54mm Inquisitor and 10mm Warmaster...

And look at how strong thaose game systems are...

I'd like 1:72 as I want to paint some 1:72 WW2 planes.

20mm basically is 1/72. 15mm is 1/100. Metal 20mm figures are generally quite chunky compared to plastic 1/72 figures. This is due to the way metal moulding works. I used to play Vietnam with 1/72 scale aircraft and vehicles, and 20mm figures. It worked fine.

Valiant Miniatures make WW2 polystyrene figures which would go perfectly with Hasegawa type kits.

Alternatively, any rules for 1/72 would be very easily adaptable to 15mm if they even needed any changes, thus allowing the use of FoW armies.

I forgot to mention that Black Tree Design are an often-underrated source of reasonably priced 28mm figures:

http://www.blacktreedesign.com/uk/home.php?cat=2517

To repeat Osbad.

Warhammer Historical got folded into Forgeworld a while back.

Since this ruleset would fall under Historical's banner, it is being produced by ForgeWorld.

I highly doubt there are plans to put out miniatures.

The 1/72-20mm market is fully stocked with cheap plastics.

On the subject of rulesets. I have a friend who is a Napoleonic player.
He has bought at least 4 new rulesets for that period in the last year alone.
And he already has a bookcase full of old sets.

Historical gamers are always looking for new rulesets regardless of period.

Because if you already have the models, all you need to do is read a book and you have a new game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, yeah.

Rick Priestley and Jervis Johnson just put out "Black Powder" rules through Warlord Games.

http://www.warlordgames.co.uk/?page_id=3177

A friend who only plays historicals is in love with the mechanics of these rules.

skrulnik wrote:To repeat Osbad.

Warhammer Historical got folded into Forgeworld a while back.

Since this ruleset would fall under Historical's banner, it is being produced by ForgeWorld.

I highly doubt there are plans to put out miniatures.

I was thinking this while reading this thread. This is sort of old news.

My thought is that, under the FW banner, the games might actually get their own unique miniatures instead of relying on other manufacturers which we all know they loath doing.

World war two is boring and played out.

ShumaGorath wrote:World war two is boring and played out.

I have a special level of hate reserved for people who say this.

Nothing especially useful to add, but was there a sense given of the size of battles (i.e. that this was skirmish, platoon level, company level)?

Happy for more rules and for WHA/Warhammer Historicals to continue to thrive. Also happy for use Peter Pig, Battlefront, Black Tree or whatever figs I feel like using.

infilTRAITOR wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:World war two is boring and played out.

I have a special level of hate reserved for people who say this.

Because it's still so cool after 80+ movies, 60+ videogames, 20+ television shows, and a wall of literature so tall it would blot out the sun. There's a reason "Modern" Warfare 2 is the biggest selling entertainment release in history. WW2 is old hat.