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4D6" S8 AP1 lance attack psi power, 3-30 death company. DC dreads as troops.... YES AS TROOPS.... LR redeemers that deepstrike... yes DEEPSTRIKE

Looks gorgeous.

Eh i want to know HOW mephiston has T6 and W5 on an infantry base fluff wise. confusion! but i have an idea on how to beat him.


example: imperials: vindicares


example: chaos deamons: lots of pavane of slannesh from heralds and DP's, pull him out of coherency and send hordes or deamonettes and especially the masque in there. rendting on 6's anyways!

orks: hide a nob w/ powerklaw in a squadof 20+ boyz, can't beat that power weapon when he has no invulnerable.

I heard that he does not have the IC special rule, so you won't be able to hide him in another unit.

Oh. Huh. So, he's a TMC then? Well, looks like my Laspred is going to be getting his points back in droves.

I think that Abbadon could give Mephiston a run for his money. But It does seem quite rediculous. Anyone know Mephistons Initiative?

I7, apparently. So, unless Abbydoobydoo gets some great Invul saves, he's toast.

willydstyle wrote:I heard that he does not have the IC special rule, so you won't be able to hide him in another unit.

If true I'm going to need Mephiston decals for kill-markings on my Vendettas.

sourclams wrote:

willydstyle wrote:I heard that he does not have the IC special rule, so you won't be able to hide him in another unit.

If true I'm going to need Mephiston decals for kill-markings on my Vendettas.

BWAHHAHAH i'll need them for my oblitorator's bases.



and yes he can easily kill IC's around or less than his points like Abby, logan and the nightbringer easy. with the potential for 10 S10 I7 attacks; but out a keeper of secrets or an avatar, something with a higher I

I KNOW HOW TO SLOVE THIS, PLASMA!
And Lots of template weapons that are ap 3 or below!
Sternguard army here i come!

Good for you, you slove the plasma until it's nice and slovenly.

Without the IC rule or an invulnerable save, he's pretty much a TMC.

And if you can't deal with him, you'd lose to a TMC list anyway, so there's nothing new here.

Stormravens are more expensive and easier to kill than Falcons. If you can't kill three easily, you'll lose to Mechdar anyway, so there's nothing new here.

Personally I think GW has done a great job with all of the 5th edition codex releases -- they're all good, they're all competitive, and there aren't any clear winners in overall power level.

As a result of all of them being good and competitive, we see the same cries of OH MY GOD OVERPOWERED CHEESE on release that dies down about the time the next codex comes out.

While I haven't really had the opportunity to peruse the codex yet and still have questions (pricing/options on Razorbacks and Predators? options on Assault Squads?), I don't think Blood Angels will be noticeably more powerful than vanilla marines or Space Wolves. In the end, they get some spiffy new toys, but nothing game breaking, and then have to pay more for some of their basic stuff (and then get the hitch that the rules on their marines aren't even reliable), and what they pay is pretty much balanced with what they get.

Fundamentally, over a standard marine list, they get:

1) Mephiston, who is basically a TMC (and you have to deal with TMCs already)
2) Stormravens, which are dangerous AV12 skimmers (which you have to deal with already because of Eldar)
3) Fast Scouting Flamestorm cannons, which are good, but have glaring weaknesses (i.e., loss of ideal melta/missile launcher platform spots, uselessness if the opponent deploys all in reserve)
4) Assault Marines as troops, which just aren't very good in the first place, and at best have a 50% chance of getting the special rule that makes them not suck.

So, meh. They'll be good, they'll be competitive, and they'll be a threat. Just like all of the other recent codices. Plenty of players will die horribly to one or the other of the new tricks, but they'd die horribly to one of the existing lists that gets the exact same tricks (and often cheaper to boot).

The difference is that mephiston is an infantry sized TMC, so he can easily hide behind things.

sourclams wrote:I have got to think that Mephiston can claim an invuln save somehow. I haven't seen the codex, admittedly, but for the Lord of Death to cost a rumored 250+ points and not have even a 4+ invul is just ridiculous. "Oh boy, he kills 5 Tac Marines. And dies to a single Power Fist hit".

It'd just be too much of an oversight. Tell me if I'm wrong.

He's T6 with up to 10 attacks on the charge @ I7, force weapon (I've heard). So, it's more like, Oh boy, he eats everything and the powerfist doesn't even strike. Even if it does, he is T6 and so loses 1 of his 5 wounds.

So yea, no invul save (like last time), but still a monster.

EDIT: I7 not 10, my mistake

Also, if he doesn't have the IC rule he just got a LOT less scary. Without the ablative wounds of a squad he may not be worth his points cost.

Someone mentioned AP3 or less against him? you mean AP 2 or less; he has a 2+ save.

Sounds like the tried-and-true method of beating MEQs will still prevail... just takes lotsa plasma and try to stay out of CC!

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Sounds like the tried-and-true method of beating MEQs will still prevail... just takes lotsa plasma and try to stay out of CC!

6 bs4 plasma guns and 9 bs3 plasma cannons enough? I'm itching to play this list, personally.

Out of all the new editions I am most excited about meltaguns with assault squads and fast vehicles.

apwill4765 wrote:

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Sounds like the tried-and-true method of beating MEQs will still prevail... just takes lotsa plasma and try to stay out of CC!

6 bs4 plasma guns and 9 bs3 plasma cannons enough? I'm itching to play this list, personally.

PC's are NOT S9 ther are still S7

IronfrontAlex wrote:

apwill4765 wrote:

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Sounds like the tried-and-true method of beating MEQs will still prevail... just takes lotsa plasma and try to stay out of CC!

6 bs4 plasma guns and 9 bs3 plasma cannons enough? I'm itching to play this list, personally.

PC's are NOT S9 ther are still S7

I think he was saying thats how many shots of plasma cannons he has. so 9 plasma cannon shots.

So wait, Mephiston is not an IC? Well that's too bad. I was planning on making a Mephsquigton model

willydstyle wrote:I heard that he does not have the IC special rule, so you won't be able to hide him in another unit.

willy, where did you hear this? Can anybody who has seen the codex confirm?

if he dosen't have the IC rule he will be easier to kill.

If he doesn't have IC and can get a retinue then he just got impossable to kill.

The thing that I am most worried about is the valkarie thing that can carry drednoughts.

i have heard they will be getting a Librarian dreadnought, is this true?

He's T6 with up to 10 attacks on the charge @ I7, force weapon (I've heard)

+D3 attacks from the power not +D6. So he has 5+D3 during his own turn.

Assuming for example a Saga of Bear Thunderwolf mounted Wolf Lord charges him, he only has 5 attacks and causes only 0,74 wounds. Then the SW dude swings with a wolf necklaced power fist and causes 3,33 wounds on average. With above average rolling Mephiston can die right here (6 attacks that require 3+ to hit and 2+ to wound). Assuming Mephiston doesn't die, next turn he casts preferred enemy on himself, +D3 attacks and S10. Mephiston will cause 1,72 wounds, and if the Wolf Lord isn't dead now (sometimes he will be, sometimes he has 1 wound remaining, it's 50/50), he will die.

My point? He's most powerful in CC, but even there a non-special character can keel him more often than not. How 'cheesy' or powerful he is can't be determined before we know how much he costs. Naturally his character/monster status will affect him as well. If he can't join units at all and can't get a retinue, he's toast. Assault armies will shoot two wounds on him and finish him in close combat. Shooty armies will just introduce Mephiston to their the lascannons, meltaguns and plasma guns.

Therion wrote:
Assuming for example a Saga of Bear Thunderwolf mounted Wolf Lord charges him, he only has 5 attacks and causes only 0,74 wounds. Then the SW dude swings with a wolf necklaced power fist and causes 3,33 wounds on average. With above average rolling Mephiston can die right here (6 attacks that require 3+ to hit and 2+ to wound). Assuming Mephiston doesn't die, next turn he casts preferred enemy on himself, +D3 attacks and S10. Mephiston will cause 1,72 wounds, and if the Wolf Lord isn't dead now (sometimes he will be, sometimes he has 1 wound remaining, it's 50/50), he will die.

Hmm... such a well-equiped Wolf Lord would run into the points cost of around a LR as well, which is pretty much how much Mephiston is rumoured to cost as well. An epic clash of heroes, I like it.

Same here. Heroes of his calibre should be able to clash with others in epic glory-bouts. I dig the imagery behind it!

If he can ride in a transport, that does give him an edge... the landraider rolls up, the ramp drops, and one guy strolls out... Also, his hood will most likely keep him from getting force weaponed to death. T6 doesn't really seem reasonable - T5 and cheaper would be more in line with other codexes. He does have a 2+ save, so he's safe from any non power weapon foes, otherwise you could probably beat him to death with poisoned hormagaunts or the like.

Grey Templar wrote:i have heard they will be getting a Librarian dreadnought, is this true?

"Dreadnaught – Can upgrade to Venerable, Furioso, and Furioso Librarian
Furioso Librarian have a single Blood Talon and Force Weapon, they have to choose which to use in close combat, but they DO get the +1 attack for having multiple CCWs. They can take 2 Blood Angel psychic powers (including Wings of Sanguinius) and has a Psychic Hood."

"Blood Talons - close combat weapons on the Furioso Dreadnought. A dreadnought CCW with a Stormbolter, likely upgradeable to Meltagun/Heavy Flamer.

Magna-Grapples - A R12” S8 anti-vehicle harpoon weapon for Dreadnaughts. On a successful Penetrating or Glancing hit, the target vehicle is dragged 2D6" toward the Dreadnought, facing unchanged. Will only pull a vehicle as far as the edge of Terrain or 1" away from (friendly?) models. It has been said it can cause Tank Shock."

Magna-Grapples: it's like half and half of Lash/pavane...though it looks like something from Warmachine

Can't wait to see how chaosy people make the BA codex...