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40k tournament, Seaham, UK, Feb 25 & 26 2012. 1750 & 2250pts  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

Proxies are usually fine, but not to the extent you use them.

I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User





Hello Everyone,

Another Games of War tourney is going to be awesome. Not sure if im going to bring my Dark Eldar again or get the Blood Angels out this time.

I think three kill point games is a bit much though. Can we try something a little more varied?

I appreciate alot of effort goes into the orginisation of these tourneys so instead of just nit picking I've given it a bit of thought and I've come up with the following:

Game 1: Kill Points
Game 2/3: Capture and Control or Seize Ground with 5 objectives, one in the centre of the table, the other four in the centre of each table quarter.

It doesn't really matter which senario is game 2 or 3 as long as the other one follows it.

Game 4: Table Quarters. Highest victory points in each quarter needed to claim it. Units above half strength are full victory points. Units below half stength are half victory points. Troops always count as full victory points no matter how many models are left in the unit.

Game 5: Seize ground with 4 objectives. Players to roll off, The player who wins the roll gets to place one objective first, then players alternate placing objectives as usual.

The last two games are more complicated but that should be ok as we have more time on a Sunday. I think they also ask for a little bit more skill to really push people in the last few games of the tourney.

As for deployment I don't think it matters two much aslong as its one of the deployment options from the rulebook and everyone has the same deployment accross all the tables. The only game I'd prescribe deployment for is Game 4. I think spearhead deployment works best for this mission.

That's my two penith worth for you all to mull over.

If it apprears I'm talking rubbish; no worries.

Cheers for putting another tourney on Shaun, hopefully you'll get to play in this one!

Greg


   
Made in gb
Steadfast Grey Hunter




North east England

Well that would depends on the proxy are !!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will have a think about some different missions for the Sunday
Gonna try using various different deployment rules
And objectives may be a good idea

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/13 08:47:22


 
   
Made in gb
Implacable Skitarii




North East of England


I like some of your ideas, however knowing your Armies I think you have unconsciously tried to skew some of the games to your gameplay. You (and I) can bring fully meched up MSU armies which will thrive in these scenarios. Others cant bring 5 plus troop choices all with fast transport. First day scenarios I dont see a problem with as they have been played.

Game 1: was Kill Points

Game 2 was 3 objectives place by the Referee, I like the Referee placed objectives along the centre line as it does not penalise any army build (foot slogging Wolves and Orks have the same chance as Venom spam)

Game 3 was single objectives placed by the Player straight from the book

There seems to be a few players who dont use the shop on a regular basis who just cant see what a great tournie it has always been and why change what isn't broken.

For the record I could play your scenarios (including night fighting which will no doubt be the next request by somebody else) with a slight change to my list but remember that the majority of those who play at GOW and enter the tournie dont have the luxury of loads of MSU mech.



Sir#67 wrote: Game 1: Kill Points

Game 2/3: Capture and Control or Seize Ground with 5 objectives, one in the centre of the table, the other four in the centre of each table quarter. As pointed out this favours small troop units with fast transport hidden till last turn

Game 4: Table Quarters. Highest victory points in each quarter needed to claim it. Units above half strength are full victory points. Units below half stength are half victory points. Troops always count as full victory points no matter how many models are left in the unit. Nice idea , got my support but again this favours small troop units with fast transport hidden till last turn then arriving to outscore

Game 5: Seize ground with 4 objectives. Players to roll off, The player who wins the roll gets to place one objective first, then players alternate placing objectives as usual. I like the Referee placed objectives rather than the Player sticking it on the 3rd floor of a ruin for example

The last two games are more complicated but that should be ok as we have more time on a Sunday. I think they also ask for a little bit more skill to really push people in the last few games of the tourney. I found the secret objectives did this really well

As for deployment I don't think it matters two much aslong as its one of the deployment options from the rulebook and everyone has the same deployment accross all the tables. The only game I'd prescribe deployment for is Game 4. I think spearhead deployment works best for this mission. For me this is your best idea, different deployments even the playing field



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/13 14:15:34


A wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn.

My interpretation of unreasonable force falls somewhere between
shooting them with a gun that fires werewolves, and dropping a volcano on them.

 
   
Made in jp
Fresh-Faced New User




Who is everybody on here btw? You all seem to recognise each other on here, but besides Bede (which is fairly easy) I can't tell who is who! (that is assuming youve all been to the tournaments I've been to).
   
Made in gb
Shunting Grey Knight Interceptor




Newcastle

I think the ideas greg proposed have mostly been used in bigger american tournaments, such as nova. There was no malicious intent behind the suggestions as they are used in the most competitive events in the world, so have been extensively tested to make them balanced for all armies.
i see your point that not everybody has the luxury of lots of vehicles, so some tweeks in the missions are all that is needed to make them fairer on everybody.



http://apostatesanonymous.blogspot.com/ - tactics and army lists with the occasional hobby article. 
   
Made in gb
Implacable Skitarii




North East of England

bedeporter wrote: been used in bigger american tournaments, such as nova.


bedeporter wrote:they are used in the most competitive events in the world


And thats my point, this isnt those tournaments. You, Me, Greg and a few others can bring truly "WAAC" lists to it but others cant so why skew it even more to our favour for us that have played in major tournaments. They also play with much less terrain, painted armies, comp score, are we now doing that?

Squizzer, me and my son played you in the final before you left for Japan (mech IG). I think your Space Wolves will have to be ballistic skill 2 from spending the last six months in a box.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/13 17:18:23


A wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn.

My interpretation of unreasonable force falls somewhere between
shooting them with a gun that fires werewolves, and dropping a volcano on them.

 
   
Made in jp
Fresh-Faced New User




Haha yeah, haven't a game of 40k since that tournament. Hopefully having a game with the wolves on Friday if all goes to plan!
   
Made in gb
Steadfast Grey Hunter




North east England

Right ladies and gents .... Well ladies for most of you !!!!!
If there are objective based games for the Sunday I will be the one choosing such things as night fight etc as for deployment I said in the last tournament use the deployment method you would like it that means rolling off then so be it, few of you however chose this option
Now I listen to your suggestions and they are good some of what you all say is true this is a small tournament and short me winning the lottery will remain so !!!!!! I have tried to make them fair and open to all and will continue to

So grab your socks as I have devised a very evil little twist for the two games on Sunday and will inform you of these on the sunday morning !!!!!
Get guessing !!!
   
Made in gb
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Wittman79 wrote:Well that would depends on the proxy are !!!


My PROXYS would just be Necron warriors to Immortals. (They'ed be in Night Scythes, but the Night Scythe model isn't out yet)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/13 16:35:21


 Pilau Rice wrote:
I meant in the typical Chaos ritual, you know blood, virgins .. Justin Bieber Albums. I can imagine after many years of frustration and constant burnt food, Jerold the Chef calls his cooker one to many bad names and it subsequently removes itself from the wall and fries him.


Experience is something you get just after you need it
The Narkos Dynasty: 5k 
   
Made in gb
Implacable Skitarii




North East of England

bedeporter wrote: some tweeks in the missions are all that is needed to make them fairer on everybody.


So the missions were unfair last tournament?

Youve mentioned this before in conversation, so who was treated unfairly?

(Please note the following is said in fun)

Because I thought it was unfair that there was so much terrain to hide behind

I didn't like the kill points missions because I brought 23 Kill points to the table

I didn't like the kill the commander special objective because I had a WS4 S3 5+ save commander.

I didnt like the kill vehicles missions special objective because I brought so many AV12 to the table

We all have different views equally correct, but I honestly think that trying to get a fun 20 player tournie playing standard to Throne Of Skulls or Nova with 200+ players is not the correct route.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/13 16:59:06


A wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn.

My interpretation of unreasonable force falls somewhere between
shooting them with a gun that fires werewolves, and dropping a volcano on them.

 
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

Who is everybody on here btw? You all seem to recognise each other on here, but besides Bede (which is fairly easy) I can't tell who is who! (that is assuming youve all been to the tournaments I've been to)


Im Connor, Space Wolves player

Its all well and good debating over what's going to happen, and who likes what, and what isnt liked but heres the facts -

The tournies are great.

More or less everyone thoroughly enjoys them as they are now.

And more importantly, you lot aren't the organisers, Sean is

You want something changed? You'd better get bum-kissing

I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Implacable Skitarii




North East of England

RatWolf wrote:You'd better get bum-kissing


I wondered how you always got those extra 5 pts. I thought it was just Sean feeling sorry for you

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/13 17:21:09


A wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn.

My interpretation of unreasonable force falls somewhere between
shooting them with a gun that fires werewolves, and dropping a volcano on them.

 
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

Nooo man, Cherry flavoured lipstick, and a gentle touch.
xD

I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Implacable Skitarii




North East of England

IHateNids wrote:
Wittman79 wrote:Well that would depends on the proxy are !!!


My PROXYS would just be Necron warriors to Immortals. (They'ed be in Night Scythes, but the Night Scythe model isn't out yet)


If Sean allows your proxies , you can borrow my 4 Valkyries or just their bases if Night Scythes are on large oval flying bases ( for a price )

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/13 17:35:02


A wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn.

My interpretation of unreasonable force falls somewhere between
shooting them with a gun that fires werewolves, and dropping a volcano on them.

 
   
Made in gb
Shunting Grey Knight Interceptor




Newcastle

All of what I said in my last post was referring to the missions that greg posted.

So the missions he suggested were the ones that needed tweaked to make them better for everybody

I was just trying to diffuse an argument before it started.

Everybody wants a fun tournament, but making suggestions for changes isn't necessarily a bad thing. After all, they are only suggestions, so not worth arguing over If Sean wants to implement changes, then so be it.

I will enjoy the tournament regardless of any changes that are, or aren't made and I'm sure everybody else will too



http://apostatesanonymous.blogspot.com/ - tactics and army lists with the occasional hobby article. 
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

Thats the thing, as proven, it doesnt make them better for EVERYBODY.

I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Shunting Grey Knight Interceptor




Newcastle

I didn't say it made them better for everybody?

I said if we tweaked the missions that greg posted, then those missions would be better suited for everybody compared to the initial ideas, rather than the missions already used in the tournament. It's difficult for people to read intonation or intention over the internet.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/13 18:18:15




http://apostatesanonymous.blogspot.com/ - tactics and army lists with the occasional hobby article. 
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

So the missions he suggested were the ones that needed tweaked to make them better for everybody



What does that say then?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/13 18:18:44


I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Shunting Grey Knight Interceptor




Newcastle

Read the edit I posted.



http://apostatesanonymous.blogspot.com/ - tactics and army lists with the occasional hobby article. 
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

I did, it still makes no sense.

I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Shunting Grey Knight Interceptor




Newcastle

Well, I'll elaborate.

If we edit greg's missions then the editted versions would be better suited for everybody compared to them as they are now.

I wasn't saying that the missions he posted were better than the missions of the previous tournaments.

So yes, if we edited them they would be better suited for everybody.

That's what I meant, sorry for any confusion



http://apostatesanonymous.blogspot.com/ - tactics and army lists with the occasional hobby article. 
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

Edit them in what way?

The way things are now, everyone knows how to handle them.

From the young'ns to the veterans, everyone can comfortably play them.

Table Quarters and the likes MIGHT confuse people.

The way it is, EVERYONE can play comfortably, changing it might change that too.

I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Shunting Grey Knight Interceptor




Newcastle

So we edit the table quarters?
The problems you, or anybody else has with them, can be solved by talking over the missions and changing them.

If people don't like the idea of table quarters, then that mission can be changed.

I don't think adding an extra objectives game on day two is really taking things out of the realms of what people can comfortably play. They play objectives games on day one and have done in the two tournaments I've been to, so everybody knows how to play them.

But, as I've said, these are only suggestions. Nobody is demanding changes. If Sean doesn't want change, he doesn't have to change anything. It's his tournament. There's nothing wrong with people making suggestions though, so there's no need to shoot down ideas.



http://apostatesanonymous.blogspot.com/ - tactics and army lists with the occasional hobby article. 
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

Im not shooting down anything. They just seem like there being piled on hard and heavy.

Im not complaining, Ill play anything happily.


I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Implacable Skitarii




North East of England

bedeporter wrote: I don't think adding an extra objectives game on day two is really taking things out of the realms of what people can comfortably play.


There were extra objectives on day two, It was the game we played against each other. One central objective we both fought over with a secret mission odjective on each side.Surely thats enough variety?

If you could just explain why you are so adament things need changing Bede maybe I would understand but as we both know youve been on about this since we last met.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/12/13 18:56:42


A wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn.

My interpretation of unreasonable force falls somewhere between
shooting them with a gun that fires werewolves, and dropping a volcano on them.

 
   
Made in gb
Shunting Grey Knight Interceptor




Newcastle

I only played you day one. Last game of day one.

Day two was pure kill points with secret missions.

I'm not adamant on changing things! As I pointed out in my last post. It's Sean's tournament and he can change what he wants.

Suggesting possible changes does not equate to being adamant on change.



http://apostatesanonymous.blogspot.com/ - tactics and army lists with the occasional hobby article. 
   
Made in gb
Implacable Skitarii




North East of England

bedeporter wrote:I only played you day one. Last game of day one.

Day two was pure kill points with secret missions.

I'm not adamant on changing things! As I pointed out in my last post. It's Sean's tournament and he can change what he wants.

Suggesting possible changes does not equate to being adamant on change.


On reflection I used the wrong phrasing what I was trying to say was "What benefit would Greg and your changes bring to the Tournament for the majority of players?"

As to the first day/second day mix up it must be old age. I remember now it was Ratwolf and Geek second day. Ratwolf was complaining his knees were hurting after all that bum kissing he had to do to get to a top table

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/13 19:47:28


A wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn.

My interpretation of unreasonable force falls somewhere between
shooting them with a gun that fires werewolves, and dropping a volcano on them.

 
   
Made in gb
Shunting Grey Knight Interceptor




Newcastle

Don't worry about it, we all know it's hard to portray what we mean over these comments, I had trouble before, for instance.

The benefits of the proposed rules include a more even playing field and increased variety of games.

Having set, kill points pitched battle, on day two favours certain armies over others. High kill point armies and assault armies suddenly become unviable. Draigowing becomes almost autowin because the opponent needs to table the paladins or else loose. If even one game was an objective mission, then this becomes much less of a factor, because it stops lists becoming the defining factor and increases the necessity for good tactics.

As you have pointed out, not everybody has access to enough vehicles to run an msu army but a variety in missions becomes less about who can build the best army for the mission and more about who can bring the best tactics to each mission.

Or at least that is how I see it.

I have to point out, that I will be taking a form of draigowing, albeit not the typical one. I've used my own army to show the pros and cons of varied missions.

I'm off out now, but will expand on this later on. I'll use another army to try and show why I think varied missions improve the tournament. I'll let you all mull over my thoughts and I'll be happy to reply to any comments when I get in.



http://apostatesanonymous.blogspot.com/ - tactics and army lists with the occasional hobby article. 
   
Made in gb
Steadfast Grey Hunter




North east England

Oh my friends what you have all been arguing about has become a mute point, as bob Dylan once said the times they are a changing.

You have all made good points about things changing the kill point games were for my benefit trying to keep things simple and they worked ok, will experiment with my new plan on the Sunday and then you can all have a natter on here again

As for ass kissing
Well I'm open to bribes but not of that nature (chocolate or money will suffice)
Just get your armies in order and get practicing obviously you can't practice for what I have in mind !!!!!
   
 
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