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Considering that Spartan employee/freelancer Craig feels the need to tell the listeners he does not like the setting/models/unspecified gut feeling about Warmachine/Hordes what seems like each and every time Privateer Press' games are mentioned in a positive way on the D6G, to the point now where I just tune out when he starts his spiel, I can't say I have much sympathy for people getting turned off by Romeo explaining in a consistent manner why he has problems with Games Workshop's business strategy the second time he is brought on.

Just finished the episode. Really, in this debate about negativity from the 3rd chair, I think we're all missing the bigger story...

Craig was arrested at a con?!?!?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Guys -

I am completely baffled by this new Lost Chapters subscription through libsys. My previous subscription expired a week or two ago, and I was waiting for the new subscribing methodology to come up. I saw the instructions for libsys, so I just subscribed for a year.

However...I have no idea how to download the Lost Chapters to itunes. I set up the Lost Chapters subscription via podbean through itunes a year ago...how in the world do I convert that over to a libsys subscription? I see direction about downloading iOS or Android apps...I don't want to download an app for use on a phone or tablet. I just want itunes on my computer to be able to download the Lost Chapters, so I can then port it over to my iPod Nano.

Help!!!

Wow, guys . . . ok . . . thanks for the kind words, first of all . . .

Second of all . . . Romeo WAS a bit harsh, but I'll stand with his defenders here. He's got every right to his opinion, and he tried to make his points clear and concise. However, listeners have just as much right to form their own opinions based upon that interview as he has of holding his. I personally didn't feel he said anything that would effect my affection for his or his company, but to each their own.

And hey, it's always nice to hear that someone tunes you out!

In my defense, I'll just mention in passing that I've always felt this way about PP, I've always stated my opinions in what I thought was a reasonable manner that covered what I DID like about the company and their games, and . . . for those reasons and several others . . . not sure what my position with Spartan has to do with the issue at all. Our 'need' to tell the listeners what we like and dislike is sort of the point of this whole endeavor . . .

But again, hey, we all have our opinions. I'll keep giving mine, as that's sort of what my 'job' here has evolved into, thanks to listeners like you guys, and you guys continue to listen, or tune out, as you deem fit!

Thanks again for all the kind words. It was awesome meeting you too, Sawtooth, and all the other listeners at Adepticon.

As for the Lost Chapters, Russ has been away on business all this week, but I'm sure in the next day or two he'll be able to address the various issues folks are having. Although he does check in here every day in his normal schedule, a more certain way of reaching him would be through the d6g email, as well, just to make sure

Thanks guys!

~Craig

Nice reply, Craig...except that you're still avoiding that topic of being arrested at a con...

WyvernX86 wrote:Ok, I filled out a Libsyn support ticket and the rss feed is working now. New problem is how the heck do I download the Lost Chapters?

The best I've been able to do is stream them through the browser on my desktop but can't get to them from my phone. Is there a super secret Lost Chapters rss feed somewhere?

The best way to gain access to the lost chapters right now is via our new iOS and Android apps. Details here: http://www.thed6generation.com/category/D6G%20Lost%20Chapters

Sadly that and the ability to listen live on the web site are the two subscription options at the moment. We're working with Libsyn to see if it is possible to expand our offerings.

(If it makes you feel better, all those who've tried the app like it!)

sawtooth was mixing Romeo's opinions with his professional career the post above, hence the mention of a parallell he did not seem to mind much, even if Spartan and PP are direct competitors and GW and Battlefoam are not.

Master-Terraformer wrote:
In my defense, I'll just mention in passing that I've always felt this way about PP, I've always stated my opinions in what I thought was a reasonable manner that covered what I DID like about the company and their games

I know....you keep telling us the same thing over and over in the same way. It is presented in an entirely reasonable manner, but that doesn't mean it is not getting a tad long in the tooth. You don't need to defend your opinion, just take it as constructive criticism. Whether Romeo was harsh or not...well, I guess it depends on how much patience one has with the companies one chooses to patronize. If he sits the third chair fire more times and keeps repeating himself, I can earnestly promise you that I won't get any less fed up with him

RussWakelin wrote:

The best way to gain access to the lost chapters right now is via our new iOS and Android apps. Details here: http://www.thed6generation.com/category/D6G%20Lost%20Chapters

Sadly that and the ability to listen live on the web site are the two subscription options at the moment. We're working with Libsyn to see if it is possible to expand our offerings.

That does make me sad. I just re-upped my subscription, blindly assuming that I would be able to download and listen on my iPod like I always have. Seemed like the old subscription method was working just fine. I'm baffled by this change. I really appreciate the hard work and time you guys put into the "hobby", and the resource (and entertainment) you're providing to us listeners. It's very frustrating to want to support the show, and listen to the good stuff you guys put out, but get stonewalled by this technology obfuscation.

Edit: Just saw the note on twitter that we can now download the TLC. I tried clicking the download link...and all I get is the episode opening in quicktime. Try and right-click to "save as", and I'm told I need to buy "Quicktime Pro" in order to save the source. I can't seem to be able to actually download it at all. And to top it off, Libsyn apparently didn't recognize that yesterday I had bought the subscription...so in clicking to verify I've got the year subscription, I get a 2nd receipt that says I bought the subscription...again. I guess I have to call my credit card company now to see if Libsyn is charging me twice? I hate to be whiny complainer guy...but this Libsysn thing is making me want to tear my hair out. All I want to do is download the podcast into iTunes so I can put it on my iPod. Just like I do with every other podcast I listen to, including your main show. Just like I used to be able to do for the last year with the Lost Chapters. Aaaagh!!!!!

OT, but Survive is being reprinted very soon with new artwork and some cool stuff (check out bgg for more). Had a great time playing Survive with you both at Adepticon and am picking it up as soon as its out!

Craig and Russ: I have a question about getting into Dust Warfare since I do not have the rulebook.

A lot of folks are probably in my boat, having just heard you two sell us on trying the game. How do we do that on a limited gaming budget, because we have to essentially come up with our own "starter set" of two forces to demo the game and hopefully start a group playing in our areas. Is purchasing the Dust Tactics Core Set to get the models an economical way to start building up forces? Should one just buy the rulebook and pick up boxes of minis? Do you have recommendations there?

Thanks!

Clevername -- loyal listener since ep.1!

HokieStone wrote:
Edit: Just saw the note on twitter that we can now download the TLC. I tried clicking the download link...and all I get is the episode opening in quicktime. Try and right-click to "save as", and I'm told I need to buy "Quicktime Pro" in order to save the source. I can't seem to be able to actually download it at all. And to top it off, Libsyn apparently didn't recognize that yesterday I had bought the subscription...so in clicking to verify I've got the year subscription, I get a 2nd receipt that says I bought the subscription...again. I guess I have to call my credit card company now to see if Libsyn is charging me twice? I hate to be whiny complainer guy...but this Libsysn thing is making me want to tear my hair out. All I want to do is download the podcast into iTunes so I can put it on my iPod. Just like I do with every other podcast I listen to, including your main show. Just like I used to be able to do for the last year with the Lost Chapters. Aaaagh!!!!!

Sorry the new system is giving you trouble. Right click and 'save as' works fine for me...and I don't have quicktime installed on my system. Which browser are you using?


Why did we change? Podbean was becoming challenging to work with and VERY unreliable with support. Many listeners were having account problems, and we were having problems keeping things running.

Libsyn is trying a very exciting new way to get premium content easily into the hands of folks with iOS and Android devices, and the apps are great. We're very excited that they can make things like podcasts accessable to less tech savvy folks.

Unfortunately they (and we) are still finding their way on how to best support legacy folks using older devices.

I think the right click download feature should work fine, once everyone gets the hang of it.

Again, sorry for the transition woes, and hopefully the pain will be short lived. Any new technology shift can be clunky.

RussWakelin wrote:

Sorry the new system is giving you trouble. Right click and 'save as' works fine for me...and I don't have quicktime installed on my system. Which browser are you using?

Why did we change? Podbean was becoming challenging to work with and VERY unreliable with support. Many listeners were having account problems, and we were having problems keeping things running.

Libsyn is trying a very exciting new way to get premium content easily into the hands of folks with iOS and Android devices, and the apps are great. We're very excited that they can make things like podcasts accessable to less tech savvy folks.

Unfortunately they (and we) are still finding their way on how to best support legacy folks using older devices.

I think the right click download feature should work fine, once everyone gets the hang of it.

Again, sorry for the transition woes, and hopefully the pain will be short lived. Any new technology shift can be clunky.

Understand you wanting to change if Podbean was causing issues...I think I emailed sometime back because I couldn't figure out on there when my subscription was ending.

In any case, technical issues overcome for the moment. By turning off the quicktime plug-in in Firefox, I was able to click on the download link and get the last two lost chapters. Of course, then I had to manually import it into iTunes and change the setting from "music" to "podcast"...but I'll work on that. I have a ticket in with Libsys asking how to easily download in iTunes.

And just to clarify...this isn't necessarily about being "less tech savvy". In my particular case - and I'm likely in the minority - I work in an environment with some strict security requirements. I can literally not bring to work anything with wireless capability. No smart phones, no tablets, etc. So "apps" are a no go for me, at least in the case where I do most my listening. But I imagine other people might want to listen on their smaller iPods while they go running or something. I totally understand trying to keep up with technology...but I'm not suggesting putting out cassette tapes...there's still a lot of mp3 players that aren't app driven.

Anyway...appreciate the response, and helping me work through the technical issues.

Wow, lots of discussion this episode! I'm going to pitch in with a few little observations from this show and the last few Lost Chapters, as I've been catching up this week.

Soapy genre TV: In my opinion ST:TNG is not very soapy at all. However DS9 is basically Eastenders in space and Game of Thrones Coronation Street with swords. You US folks might have to WIkipedia those references As an aside, you can make a good Game of Thrones drinking game out of spotting British soap actors in the minor parts.

P+S: Craig you've got to remember that while it's important to have a large P+S, it's not quite as vital if you're a weapon master.

Licensing: Of all the things to criticise GW on licensing was a weird choice. Despite not giving Battle foam a license to stick a 40K badge on their bags, GW have had loads of video games, a bad movie, and the RPG and board games all licensed out. Who does more? Why not criticise WotC for not licensing out their mini games and board games? Romeo has to let it go!

Miniature Migration: IMO you spent a little too much time on putting the boot into GW, and not enough on other mini games that you have moved on from. It prevented you from exploring any common themes that you found amongst different systems, like you did so well in the Hit or Miss Lost Chapter.

Dust: I was interested in the rules discussion, but ultimately the theme is a turn off for me. I'm the reverse to Russ in that normal WWII is fine, but I do get very uncomfortable with alternative WWII/ Weird War games. That's just a personal preference though. If Andy C brings out a similar rule set in a different setting then I'll probably go for it.

Glad the download feature was added to Libsyn but having to download an app seems a bit backwards. I'm sure Libsyn is on the up and up but i don't want their app doing who knows what on my phone.

It just seems odd there is not a RSS feed for the premium content as that is the standard and it is there for the free content. So that is my suggestion for Libsyn. Extend the RSS feed for the premium content too.

Hi guys, I'm a little behind and I'm only now making my way through Episode 100. Congratulations on hitting the big 1-0-0. It's hard to believe you've recorded over 400 hours of D6G and I've listened to all of them.

Craig keeps talking about how good John Carter was, and I'm sorry I missed seeing it in the theaters. I'm always disappointed when a scifi movie or tv show comes out and for whatever reason, bad marketing, plot decisions, whatever, it doesn't do well.

Have any of you read the books? I forget if you mentioned that or not.

Additionally, I was happy to hear the Russ saw the Secret World of Arrietty. I took my younger cousins to see it and they loved it. Not to pick on Russ, but Arrietty is not a US movie at all, it's Japanese. Studio Ghibli, the "Disney of Japan," made it and released it through Disney, like they've done with their other movies.

If Russ, and his kids enjoyed it, I recommend some of their other movies like My Neighbor Totoro, Spirited Away, and Ponyo (just to name a few).

I'm a very new listener to the cast. I have only been listening since episode 96 or so. Romeo's rant about GW really put me off to him-and by extension his company. Why would I want to buy cases from a guy who hates the company that makes my game?

Thanks for all the kind(ish) words, guys!

As for getting into Dust: Warfare, the Revised Core Set comes with about 120ish points for each side. I've fielded everything at least once, and everything but the Axis Walker has made it into my current regular list, so it's good stuff. If you bought the units separately (and they're not currently available separately, so another thing to think about), it would cost you about $140, plus you each get a hero. So, it's a decent place to start if you're just looking to get some points out there. However, keep in mind it is TOTALLY possible to make nearly COUNTLESS configurations without ANY of the models in that set at all, and you might end up liking those configurations better, at which point you won't be using those models. They're very themed, at least for the Axis. You get the Blutkreuz command squad and two heavy grenadier squads, so sort of a dog's breakfast, really, but it's doable. With that and a zombie squad or one of the other Section 1 options for the Blutkreuz, and you have a solid 150 point platoon (you might need to buy a Platoon Upgrade to make up the points, not sure).

Not sure about the Allies, but I'd imagine it's about the same.

Holdenstein, you made me laugh out loud on a bad day, so thank you!

Thanks again, guys! And sorry for the technical issues . . . but I'm sure we'll get that stuff sorted out. The wizard told me so!

A really interesting episode guys, and I wanted to start by thanking you for that. DUST has been a blip on my radar for a while, with the media and a variety of failed/moved game attempts, and it is good to see where it has finally ended up. I do think that marketting the game with any long standing exposure is going to be an uphill struggle, as a result of a pretty niche genre and the instant 'ewww' whenever 'pre-painted' is mentioned, no matter how good they are. It's also a little late in the curve, as alternative WWII games hit a high point about a year and a half ago and I wonder whether the fickle gamer has moved on. Anyway, although this seems a game that is not really for me, I hope it does well and appreciate it getting exposure and having a chance to get more information about it.

I do predict that in about three episodes we will get a report from Russ about how he has moved on from DUST to a new 'competition killer' game, followed by a lament from Craig who has spent the last two weeks painting up his fifth force and being lead by his OCD to finish a campaign that he started a month ago!

SurfPenguin wrote:Okay, as I was listening to the first half of this episode my mind was filled with a single thought: How ing much did Privateer Press pay you for what was essentially an hour-long commercial? Between Russ & Romeo they pretty much accused GW of everything short of building a huge artificial butt that flies around and drops big ol' stinkies on gamers everywhere. Seriously guys, I thought you had moved past this sort of blatant fanboyism over a hundred episodes ago.

I have to admit that it did come across as a GW bashing tag team at times, and even Craig appeared worn down to acceptance by the prospect of it. There is a lot of criticism that can legitimately be levelled at GW, and God knows they have annoyed me mightily at several points. However, I think that 'stranglehold' was unfair. I have to wonder if a company like PP (just using them as they were used in the segment as the alternative) had been there from the start instead of GW, whether they would have invested in actual stores, gaming areas, mass marketting, LotR licensing and a magazine in high street stores. All of these things have helped build a community and a wider acceptance over the last 30 years. Yes, some of their business practices are indefensible, and they do make themselves an easy target at times, but how many of us wouldn't be here posting if GW had never existed?

Legitimate criticism is fine (and there is a wealth of opportunity for it), but this crossed a line at points into bashing. Not always, and not always unjustified, but it would have been nice to have a little more balance.

Necros wrote:I miss Warzone .. like, the 1995 warzone. Always liked the overall Mutant Chronicles story.. too bad minis games for it just never seem to work.

And I'm not even ashamed to admit I watch the movie when they rerun it on SyFy every 2 weeks or so

Ha... Well.... It could be worse..... At least you don't have the dvd.... I mean.... Who would want to be THAT guy?..... I hate myself.....

I just have one nit-pick. DUST was continuously referred to as a great 'army scale' game. By this, I assume that you mean in the same category as 40K, since it shares a mini scale at 28mm. However, despite what GW tell people, 40K is not an army scale game. It is, at heart, a skirmish game which has been redressed to become a platoon scale game (to sell tanks), or - at best - a company scale game. I only mention it to clear up if this is what you meant...... and the fact that this annoys me generally.

bbb wrote:

Necros wrote:I miss Warzone .. like, the 1995 warzone. Always liked the overall Mutant Chronicles story.. too bad minis games for it just never seem to work.

And I'm not even ashamed to admit I watch the movie when they rerun it on SyFy every 2 weeks or so

I have such fond memories of Warzone. I started gaming with 40K and since I regularly gamed at Showcase where Chris Bledsoe worked I eventually got into Warzone with a bunch of friends. I love the direction a lot of the minis went with 2nd edition, but still have a soft spot for the 1st edition ones even if they are pretty bad by today's standards. But with 2nd edition it died in our area (and globally too).

One of my "If I win the lotto..." dreams would be to just buy the the rights for Warzone and Mutant Chronicles.

Can't agree with you guys more (except maybe about the movie thing-they went way too far of the rails for my taste)! Warzone was a fantastic game. For every complaint about GW, take a look at how Target Games destroyed it's best-selling property, then went on to hose the people who were doing their best to bring it back. I would also point to the last days of FASA and what happend to Vor although the fans of PP have much to thank them for.

The nineties and early noughties were the period when "contenders" in the miniatures game scene made all the mistakes (or the conscious gamicide Target made of Warzone) that the current crop has learned a few lessons from. Does anybody remember Raven?

We will never know if a different company than GW would have made different decicions in the 90s. We only know that a new set of minigaming business models is developing now and that it is producing viable companies, that do some things differently and some things similarily to the industry giant. I am not sure DUST Warfare is trying to ride a "wave" of alt-WW2 games, though, nor that anyone should try that. The successful companies have done well by at least partly breaking the mold: FOW departed quite a lot from traditional WW2 gaming models and the Iron Kingdoms setting is hardly a very traditional Steampunk one. The same goes for Infinity (the anime craze period was well and truly over when the game was launched and its models are far less cartoony than, say, PP or GW's), Malifaux (a melange setting if there ever was one) and even Spartan's initial Uncharted Seas world (although breaking the mold in trad-fantasy is quite difficult considering the volume of literature out). It remains to be seen whether DUST Warfare has enough resonance to get off the ground. Here's a toast to them hoping they do.

As for "army scale", I am fully in agreement with the poster above. I have been amused in the past to hear WM/H, Warhammer Fantasy, 40k and other 28-32mm/heroic scale games described as army scale games. They are all overgrown skirmish games that get perhaps a company or two's worth of figures onto the table - in 40k and perhaps WM/H concentrated to an absurd level (in a normal line of riflemen on a modern battlefield, you could perhaps fit a squad of 28mm figures on a 6x4 table), and in WHFB a large "army" barely gets up to the size of a single element 2mm medieval/early modern gaming uses - I've partaken in larger reenactment skirmishes than you see on the WHFB battlefield. But there is nothing wrong with that - the game's the thing, not the scale. It is just inprecice to call it "army scale". Heavens, even Epic barely manages a batallion on a good day

Clearly I've been Well Actually'd on "Army Scale Game"

I stand, er sit, corrected. I probably should have used the term "High Model Count" game to differentiate it from what I call skirmish games: i.e. Games with a typical model count of 20 or less models.

Dust Warfare does, however, have more than a few rules to give you a feeling that you are commanding an army as opposed to a strike team:

- Suppression
- Command and Control
- Platoon organization
- Off table support
- etc.

So maybe we can call it a "high model count feels like you are commanding a company" style game.

Hmmm, a bit wordy... how about HMCFLYACAC games?

And yes, I would say 40k falls into this category as well. While Malifaux, Warmachine, Mercs, etc. would be "low model count feels like you are commanding a strike team" style games or LMCFLYACAST games.

Or...

We could just us military terms all the way down (or up...)

Squad Scale (<10 infantry) (Very small skirmish...Malifaux, Mercs, Necromunda)
Platoon Scale (20~50 infantry) (Medium sized skirmish, Warmachine is this now, some 40k armies are in this area)
Company Scale (50~200 infantry) (What I have been calling "Army Scale" - WH40k, WHFB, Dust Warfare, FoW, Epic, Warmaster)
Battalion (300 - 1000 infantry) (Really big FoW and Epic games, or crazy big 40k Apocalypse games )

chrisbender wrote:Great episode guys! I have caught your enthusiasm for Dust Warfare big time, and went ahead and ordered the Dust Tactics Core Set, Warfare rulebook, two command squads, and two infantry squads. I am excited about playing an army scale wargame again, as the last time I did was Warhammer 40k second edition!

Is warfare really "army scale"? Seems more skirmish to me at the typical points levels.


Also the short ranges and smaller boards make it feel more like warmachine than 40k as far as scope and size of conflict.

RussWakelin wrote:
We could just us military terms all the way down (or up...)

Squad Scale (<10 infantry) (Very small skirmish...Malifaux, Mercs, Necromunda)
Platoon Scale (20~50 infantry) (Medium sized skirmish, Warmachine is this now, some 40k armies are in this area)
Company Scale (50~200 infantry) (What I have been calling "Army Scale" - WH40k, WHFB, Dust Warfare, FoW, Epic, Warmaster)
Battalion (300 - 1000 infantry) (Really big FoW and Epic games, or crazy big 40k Apocalypse games )

Based off of my limited experience with such things that sounds like a good modern interpretation.

Let's not get into a brass vs tin button historical debate regarding the size of classical or in a similar vein fantasy armies.

Oh how I hated this episode, and I'll tell you why!

I bought Dust Tactics when it was released at Gen Con...two years ago? (has it really been that long already?) It was...ok. Really only played it once. But, I loved the fluff and the models. But, still I thought about selling the original core set but never got around to it.

Then, last summer at Gen Con i saw the announcement of Dust Warfare. Hmmmm. Maybe....no. I need another game like I need a hole in the head.

And I spent the last year ignoring anything to do with Dust Warfare. Each new model release from FFG was a bitter reminder that Dust Warfare was coming. But, ignore I did.

Then the book came out. I told myself I wasn't even going to pick it up to flip through it. No siree. Not gonna do it.

Then this episode came out. Curse Wakelin and his infectious enthusiasm! And, what? Craig got suckered into this game too? But he just declared an episode or two earlier that he was done with big army games! But, now he's all in? What is going on? Who is going to stop the madness?!

Then...it happened. The next time I was at the FLGS to meet a friend for a game I saw the rulebook. There it was. Taunting me in all it's hardcover, full-color glory. Against my better judgement I picked it up. I flipped through it.

...and I put it down. I didn't have a spare $40 on me. Thank goodness. I was safe. For now.

But, then I couldn't stop thinking about it. I sold some stuff to a local used bookstore and got enough and went back and bought the rulebook.

I've been sucked it, and I blame the D6 Generation.

And, oh yeah, the special episode with the Mack Martin interview about Dust Warfare....GAH! It just keeps coming!

But, I want official unit cards before I go all in. Ya hear that, FFG.

I was all over the fence about Dust.

Now?

I'll be snatching up a few of those old and new basic sets because of you guys. Thank you, I'm sold!!!!

My wallet thanks you for losing some of the cash and making more room for lint.


Once again, I'm grateful for your podcast. You give me some good stuff to listen to.

Thank you all.