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 Sigvatr wrote:
Furthermore, if you wanted to argue otherwise, you could also buy a fort and place the Comm Relay about 20'' away because hey, nobody says you can't!

You're right, you could. This is actually a real problem for the aegis lines because the gun is an entirely separate object and the rules don't say anything about where it can go. Sure, you probably want to put it somewhere behind the line for the cover save, but there's nothing that says you can't put it in front of the line, or on the other side of the table from it.

Now, GW could easily fix this by specifying that the gun/relay is roof-mounted just like vehicle weapons always specify turret/sponson/whatever-mounted, but until they do so the rules allow you to place the upgrades anywhere you want.

It is a single model, you have brought an upgrade for. Or are you arguing that you can place the multimelta upgrade for a landraider anywhere you like?

You are given permission to place the fort model, and nothing gives you permission to put the comms relay anywhere but on the roof.

 liam0404 wrote:
I was using my black templars. My list was something like this:

Emperor's Champion w/AAC
Marshal in TA w/ TH/SS and Adamantine mantle

Crusader Squad (5 man) with PF and meltagun (x 2)

Cyclone terminators (unit of 5 with 2 cyclones and tank hunters)

Assault Cannon terminators (unit of 5 with 2 Assault Cannon and tank hunters)

5 Man Assault terminator unit

Land Raider Crusader x 2
Land Raider Godhammer (standard pattern)

Just out of curiosity, why would you be surprised that you had trouble with flyers? Your list doesn't look like it has any effort put into countering flyers at all. I would imagine that an IG army with Vendettas or a Blood Angels army with Stormravens would be similarly brutal for you.

 Kingsley wrote:

Just out of curiosity, why would you be surprised that you had trouble with flyers? Your list doesn't look like it has any effort put into countering flyers at all. I would imagine that an IG army with Vendettas or a Blood Angels army with Stormravens would be similarly brutal for you.

As I stated earlier in the thread, most games i've played in which flyers featured have only tended to have 1 or 2 flyers. This army is very capable of dealing with that due to the tank hunters and the twin linked weapons on the land raiders. That aside, there isn't another army that can bomb across the table and then throw that much haywire and gauss in your face on the turn that they arrive. Vendettas are definately a threat yeah, but its easy to get cover saves if you play it right, and lascannons don't always get through AV 14.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
4) Ally in a Chapter Master and orbital strike the HQ hiding in the corner, you might hurt it, and have a decent chance of taking the building out too... or better yet bring some guard along (Hydra, Valk, Master of Ordinance, etc). I really think 500 points of allies helps you a lot in this one. If you kill that thing and its pal on turn 1 (unlikely, I know), you just won the game (stupid him).

If he's done it right you can't do that, since any shot that is legally on top of the target model will also be hitting the unoccupied bastion which is not a legal target (just like you can't place a barrage shot with one of your own models under the template).

The rules say you can't place a template over your own troops, specifically.

The rules say nothing about placing templates over, say, random trees - but you can't choose those as a target, either. An unoccupied building is just like a Mysterious Forest, or a second unit halfway between you and your target when you're firing a flamer. If you hit it by "mistake", that's a legitimate hit.

Anyway, Vendetta squadrons are Nightscythe Bait. Flyers are why Phase Out should still be a rule. :d (and I say that as a Necron player!)

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It is a single model, you have brought an upgrade for. Or are you arguing that you can place the multimelta upgrade for a landraider anywhere you like?

You are given permission to place the fort model, and nothing gives you permission to put the comms relay anywhere but on the roof.

The difference is that the LR rules explicitly state that the multimelta is pintile-mounted, which means your only choice is which hatch to glue it on. GW could have stated that the gun/relay is roof-mounted, but they failed to do so.

The rules say nothing about placing templates over, say, random trees - but you can't choose those as a target, either. An unoccupied building is just like a Mysterious Forest, or a second unit halfway between you and your target when you're firing a flamer. If you hit it by "mistake", that's a legitimate hit.

Except the rules say "you cannot attack an unoccupied building". It's ambiguous enough that any good TFG is going to argue that you can't place the template so that it touches the bastion because then you'd be attacking it.

Again, please show permission to take 1 model and make it into 2.

 Peregrine wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It is a single model, you have brought an upgrade for. Or are you arguing that you can place the multimelta upgrade for a landraider anywhere you like?

You are given permission to place the fort model, and nothing gives you permission to put the comms relay anywhere but on the roof.

The difference is that the LR rules explicitly state that the multimelta is pintile-mounted, which means your only choice is which hatch to glue it on. GW could have stated that the gun/relay is roof-mounted, but they failed to do so.

The rules say nothing about placing templates over, say, random trees - but you can't choose those as a target, either. An unoccupied building is just like a Mysterious Forest, or a second unit halfway between you and your target when you're firing a flamer. If you hit it by "mistake", that's a legitimate hit.

Except the rules say "you cannot attack an unoccupied building". It's ambiguous enough that any good TFG is going to argue that you can't place the template so that it touches the bastion because then you'd be attacking it.

Yes, well, then you tell TFG that you aren't attacking it, you're attacking the guy.

After all, due to Scatter, you can hit your own troops with blast weapons, even though you can't attack them either.

I'd argue that the Comm Relay must be placed on the building's roof, that's the only option that makes sense and it's also detailed in the building instructions.

Furthermore, if you wanted to argue otherwise, you could also buy a fort and place the Comm Relay about 20'' away because hey, nobody says you can't!

Wrong.....Wrong......and......Right

If the Coms relay had to be a part of the building then why would they add a separate rule for it ?

Comms Relay (see page 104) : Any player with an unengaged model within 2" of a comms relay can re-roll Reserve rolls. If a model is in cover behind a comms relay, it has a 5+ cover save.

If the comms relay was meant to be a part of the building and you need to be inside the building to use it.....why would they add a separate entry regarding its rules for not being inside the building?

Exactly.....L2Read.

This is silly.

The Necron Bakery is nowhere close to the strongest list anymore. Tau with interceptor riptides and broadsides make an absolute mockery of it.
Though that bastion trick was kind of a TFG move.

If you are having problems, ally in Tau.

It looks like this thread passed the Reanimation Protocol-test.

And no, a bakery is really not as strong as when this thread was started.
Besides; most lists use troops in flyers and wraiths now.
That strength isn't in the flyers, but in the pinpoint-dropping of the troops.

This thread is being locked due to Necronization.