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I shed no tears for someone with the best unit in the game. People don't say, oh, I'll give up shooting phase in exchange for making Maneaters Core. Stuff's generally there for a reason.

When I first read mournfang, I thought they had screwed up.

@Duke: I'm still not entirely sure they didn't screw up.

All that aside, I think it's possible to create a character that's at least mostly fair, if we keep in mind that he exists for fun. Not for winning.

@mixer86: I'm liking it, but let's keep going:

 mixer86 wrote:

Grimhorn’s Retribution: Morak rides to battle with this heavy spear, made from an ancient Stonehorn's tusk, in hand. When Grimhorn rushes the enemy lines, the wind whistles and screams through the leering faces carved along the weapon's haft, rising in a hungry, blood-chilling falsetto.
Magic Weapon: Lance. Grants the Armour Piercing and Terror special rules on a turn Morak successfully charges.

- Just cleaned up the text a little. This way, it only grants AP on the turn he charges, but it's a pretty minor boon for a S5(7) character, and this is easier to read.

 mixer86 wrote:

Maw's Tooth: This ivory razor was taken from the Great Maw itself. The two foot-long fang emits a protective aura that surrounds the bearer.
Talisman. At the start of each turn, roll a D6 for Morak. On a roll of 3+, Morak regains a lost wound. On a roll of 1, however, Morak suffers a Strength 4 poisoned hit. Morak may not exceed his starting wounds in this fashion.

- a 5+ Regeneration save is some good protection. +1T is just as good. And regaining a Wound on a 3+ is the equal of both. Having all three is crazy-overkill. I think the above is the most flavorful, but if you wanted to swap it out for one (and only one) of the other abilities, I don't think it matters.

Beyond that, I would suggest you make the lack of magic an outright rule for Morak. I mean, someone could have Core Mournfangs and then nothing but Maneaters to house the Butcher/BSB or something like that. It won't change how you use him, so there's no harm in it for you, but it will give him the appearance of a more well-rounded character. Something like:

Morak's Riders (cont'd): Grimhorn's army travels far and often, and so those who cannot ride are left behind. And no one, not even Morak himself, can command a beast to accept a rider as insatiable or volatile as Ogre shamans tend to be.
Any Bruisers in an army that contains Morak must purchase Mournfang mounts for an additional 70pts/model. Any Hunters in an army that contains Morak must purchase a Stonehorn or Thundertusk mount. Any army that contains Morak may not take any Slaughtermasters, Butchers, or Firebellies.

@mixer86: I'm liking it, but let's keep going:

mixer86 wrote:

Grimhorn’s Retribution: Morak rides to battle with this heavy spear, made from an ancient Stonehorn's tusk, in hand. When Grimhorn rushes the enemy lines, the wind whistles and screams through the leering faces carved along the weapon's haft, rising in a hungry, blood-chilling falsetto.
Magic Weapon: Lance. Grants the Armour Piercing and Terror special rules on a turn Morak successfully charges.

- Just cleaned up the text a little. This way, it only grants AP on the turn he charges, but it's a pretty minor boon for a S5(7) character, and this is easier to read.

Happy with this, i also like the interpretation of the Fluff text.

mixer86 wrote:

Maw's Tooth: This ivory razor was taken from the Great Maw itself. The two foot-long fang emits a protective aura that surrounds the bearer.
Talisman. At the start of each turn, roll a D6 for Morak. On a roll of 3+, Morak regains a lost wound. On a roll of 1, however, Morak suffers a Strength 4 poisoned hit. Morak may not exceed his starting wounds in this fashion.

- a 5+ Regeneration save is some good protection. +1T is just as good. And regaining a Wound on a 3+ is the equal of both. Having all three is crazy-overkill. I think the above is the most flavorful, but if you wanted to swap it out for one (and only one) of the other abilities, I don't think it matters.

All 3 is a bit much, but is it overkill for a 625 point character to have +1 T AND the regain wound roll? Fluff wise the Talisman being from the Maw i think the regain a wound works because it acts similar to the Lore attribute for the Lore of Maw. And the Butchers/SM extra toughness in the fluff is due to conditioning themselves to deal with the harsh conditions when on pilgrimage to The Great Maw. What about if Morak has journeyed their himself and carried out such conditioning, then yanked a chunk of it out to benefit from its powers, granting him +1 T. But due to the nature of the Maw, such power comes at a price. Hence, the 1 in 3 chance of it hurting him rather than helping him.

Thoughts?

Beyond that, I would suggest you make the lack of magic an outright rule for Morak. I mean, someone could have Core Mournfangs and then nothing but Maneaters to house the Butcher/BSB or something like that. It won't change how you use him, so there's no harm in it for you, but it will give him the appearance of a more well-rounded character. Something like:

Morak's Riders (cont'd): Grimhorn's army travels far and often, and so those who cannot ride are left behind. And no one, not even Morak himself, can command a beast to accept a rider as insatiable or volatile as Ogre shamans tend to be.
Any Bruisers in an army that contains Morak must purchase Mournfang mounts for an additional 70pts/model. Any Hunters in an army that contains Morak must purchase a Stonehorn or Thundertusk mount. Any army that contains Morak may not take any Slaughtermasters, Butchers, or Firebellies.

Really like this in addition to his current rule. Sounds pretty fair as it allows me that precious BSB but still forgoes the magic phase. And the aim is to have a playable fun list, not WAAC.

Glad I could help!

+1T and heal-y powers certainly would fit the character's concept, but one or the other would too.
Then again...maybe it's a good idea. Here's my thinking:

If you wanted to make him T6, I'd change the Maw's Tooth to-
"on a 4+, Morak regains 1 Wound...on a 1, Morak takes a Wound, with no armour saves allowed"

A low-Strength hit would still need a 6 to Wound him, and then he'd get his armour save (and, looking back, I realize that it'd have to roll to Hit as well, or the Poison would have no effect).
This way, it's an actual drawback, and the healing isn't as sure a thing (but 50-50 isn't bad, especially for a T6 monster with a 2+ save). So it gives you some room to make him a little better in another way.

Even more so, though, is that I don't think +1T would make that huge an impact on him. S2 and 3 don't care. S4 and 5 get hurt, but 6 and up are still a serious threat. And then there's all the stuff that just doesn't care about his Toughness at all.
So really, giving the Tooth the above drawback in order to justify the additional ability is really paying more than you need to, while technically being fair (+1T is always an expensive upgrade, useful or not).
So, in short, it further distances you from being considered That Effing Guy while letting you stay true to the concept of the character and the army.

Warpsolution wrote:
Glad I could help!

+1T and heal-y powers certainly would fit the character's concept, but one or the other would too.
Then again...maybe it's a good idea. Here's my thinking:

If you wanted to make him T6, I'd change the Maw's Tooth to-
"on a 4+, Morak regains 1 Wound...on a 1, Morak takes a Wound, with no armour saves allowed"

A low-Strength hit would still need a 6 to Wound him, and then he'd get his armour save (and, looking back, I realize that it'd have to roll to Hit as well, or the Poison would have no effect).
This way, it's an actual drawback, and the healing isn't as sure a thing (but 50-50 isn't bad, especially for a T6 monster with a 2+ save). So it gives you some room to make him a little better in another way.

Even more so, though, is that I don't think +1T would make that huge an impact on him. S2 and 3 don't care. S4 and 5 get hurt, but 6 and up are still a serious threat. And then there's all the stuff that just doesn't care about his Toughness at all.
So really, giving the Tooth the above drawback in order to justify the additional ability is really paying more than you need to, while technically being fair (+1T is always an expensive upgrade, useful or not).
So, in short, it further distances you from being considered That Effing Guy while letting you stay true to the concept of the character and the army.

Thanks Warp, the idea of the poisoned hit was to negate the requirement to wound, though simply writing he take a wound would have been easier.

I agree, T6 isn't a massive deal considering how make GW's are out there, it is nevertheless a nice bonus.

Happy for the Maw's Tooth to take a wound with no saves of any kind (after all, its around his neck) but i think it should only be on a 1 or 2 and stil 3+ regain a wound. A 50/50 chance i think takes it a bit too much back the other way.

Well, I was thinking of the following set up:

1 take a Wound
2-3 nothing
4-6 regain a Wound

3+ to regain a Wound is a bit much for a guy with T6 and W5, in my opinion. And 1-2 to take a Wound is also a little strong. The above mellows both out. I think they're probably about equal, just for some reason I feel like people would think the above version less broken.
That's really the key; you almost need to trick us into thinking he's worse than he is. He needs to look worse on paper than he performs on the table, just by a tiny bit.

Warpsolution wrote:
Well, I was thinking of the following set up:

1 take a Wound
2-3 nothing
4-6 regain a Wound

3+ to regain a Wound is a bit much for a guy with T6 and W5, in my opinion. And 1-2 to take a Wound is also a little strong. The above mellows both out. I think they're probably about equal, just for some reason I feel like people would think the above version less broken.
That's really the key; you almost need to trick us into thinking he's worse than he is. He needs to look worse on paper than he performs on the table, just by a tiny bit.

I see what you mean. I actually showed a tweaked version of the rules to 5-10 regulars last night and all were happy for me to use him. which is always a good start. They all said that forfeiting something as big as the magic phase to take him pretty much gained him a seal of approval.

I did make a couple of tweaks before showing them.