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That club is WAY over the top. D3 is really a gigantic bonus. And you're adding a bunch more. It's better than a WoC HellfireSword which is a 65pt item and you're making it a 50pt regular item (so they can still spend on magic). Just no.

Again, hunters shouldn't be melee. No one takes Hunters but also no one takes Tyrants.

Yeah. Keep it simple, and keep it focused:
Hunters are not assassins, and they're not expert marksmen. They're trackers and trappers. They should be able to wage mini-wars all on their own. He's an Ogre, so he's got close combat covered.

All he needs are: updates to his shooting attacks and traps of some kind.
If we make his harpoon launcher a bolt thrower, we give him...a weapon that no one ever takes anyway.
Anyone got any other ideas as to how a harpoon-mechanic would work? I feel like the one I posted above is just a little too complicated.

How else could traps work?

Lets not Forget that Ogres are first and formost a CC army.

Now I accidently left off that the D3 wounds on the Ogre club is on a role of a 6 to wound. Also remember it is only +1S, the D3 does not work against infentry/war machines, Which is what you want if you are going to use him for if you ambush. The Idea is he goes out tracks, traps and kills all typed of Beasts of all types. .I have fixed it on the original post to show the D3 is on roll of a 6.. Tyrants are still the Better CC option, Butchers/fire bellies are still better due to casting, and you will always need a BSB for Ogres due to lower LD. All Ogres are by Nature really good in Combat do to Monstrous infantry, and we still talking about a guy who can get killed fairly easy by shooting/Magic and even in CC. Even as we build this guy, I was saying as the only person in the group who plays Ogres regularly, he is still a third/forth option for my Hero choice alone, and probably 12th on my list as a options to take over all, Now that is still way above where he was. Let’s look a the Ogre Heroes, First and foremost I must have a Bruiser BSB with points on options, Next I will need a backup wizard or two to carry my Dispel scroll, or Hell Heart, or both if I have kitted out my Slautermaster to be a wizard tyrant. And i normally do all of a sudden are all looking at 600+ points from the Hero section ( 500+ if I drop a wizard) now even at 3k, The earliest I could see taking this guy.
Lets discuss the ranged option.

I am now having to chose between him and an Iron Blaster, A guy that is less mobile, has a weaker ranged attack, And will kill about the same amount in CC as the Iron Blaster, The Iron Blaster has a better Armor save, Is more mobile, and will make its points back way faster with its extended range, higher strength attack, can move and shoot, and has the best grape shot in the game. Remember that I still have to add points to my core to go up to 3k. In fun Games I might take him, but in a tournament, I will take an Iron blaster 9 out of 10 times. This guy to be is by no means a must take, but does add some much needed versatility.

So now lets look at him as a CC Option,

We already said that a bruiser is the BSB, The 25 points for a BSB plus the points for Banner/equipment, however you prefer are more or less a wash and a must take, So I am going to go to the Tyrant. If you Equipt a Tyrant correctly, Yes he is a few more points, but he also Has access to a lot more, personally I think a Tyrant is overpriced for what he gives you anyway. But Still, He can be your General, has a better Weapons skill, and can be equipped a lot better options that make him way more of a killer than this Hunter. And most important his points come from the Lord not the Heroes section.

On my list of Priorities I have a slaughter master, a BSB, a second wizard, Core Requirements, Iron blaster(s) Mournfang, Sabertusks, Thundertusk, Maneaters, Leadbelchers, Stone horn, Then I would put him here, about on par with a Tyrant, more Iron blasters, and another wizard. Which is way above where he was before at the bottom with a Giant.

Hunters aren't mega CC. Please stop trying. You have 2 guys who already do that, one of whom isn't even used. If you start buffing hunter as a CC force, it makes Tyrants have no purpose at all and Bruisers only be the stupid guy who carries a banner.

He already has great combat stats, he doesn't need to be better at it.

No one takes a tyrant. Don't kid yourself.

DukeRustfield wrote:
Hunters aren't mega CC. Please stop trying. You have 2 guys who already do that, one of whom isn't even used. If you start buffing hunter as a CC force, it makes Tyrants have no purpose at all and Bruisers only be the stupid guy who carries a banner.

He already has great combat stats, he doesn't need to be better at it.

No one takes a tyrant. Don't kid yourself.

Your right, no one takes a Tyrant, but on that same note no one takes a Bruiser other than to be that stupid guy who carries a banner, Absolutely no one takes a hunter EVER in 8th ed. No one takes any of the Ogre Special Characters either. At above 3k, I take a Tyrant so I can get to LD 10 with that stupid guys who carry a banner, but below that point limit you are right. The point of the thread is to make the Hunter an option. Not OP, but better than what he is now, How is having a weapon that gives +1S when using it Two Handed so no Parry. ALA a halberd that on an off change you roll a 6, and it is not saved then gives you a 1-3 chance you can really do some damage to a single model.

How is this any better than giving a hunter a GW that he can already take at for basically 1/5th the cost Makes Him +2S and is less that ¼th cost? It’s not like the hunter is getting ASF, or and Init bonus. He still strikes after or at the same time as 85% of other models. The points cost for this sword is way above where they could be, If you take the rules, +1S, and the on 6s, D3 wounds to Beasts type models Again not everyone. This more of a 25 point Option, It is not magical so it can not hurt Ethereal models. Has no affect on 75% of models other than +1S and at a Hefty cost. I Guess I am not getting it. Normally I am one to say This is not a good Idea, But that is when you turn a model into something it is not buy giving it all the best options, and no drawback, This is a sword that gives a minor upgrade, cost a ton, Follows all the rules for creating a balanced weapon, and is on a model that will almost never get used, and is by no means OP.

The Ogre SCs aren't bad. Different books differ on how good they are. But Skrag can be playable. So can overtyrant. So can the maneater cuz of his variable magic items.

It's not his job, it's as simple as that. You can give him a HKB +30 attack weapon and he'll totally be "an option." It just doesn't make any sense. You're creating a standard item on a standard hero who isn't CC-heavy and you made it better than most magic items and him better than his true CC counterparts.

It's just not his job. You have 2 other units who are specifically designed for it. If you gave him the option of 4 spell levels it also wouldn't be his job and would be the same concept. His name is hunter, not tyrant. If his main, signature weapon is a club, how would he ever hunt anything? Every creature he might possibly hunt is as fast as him or faster. If something is too stupid (or so baddass) that it won't walk away from you, then use a great weapon.

Why not take a leaf from another game? There is a rule in warmachine called 'Sic 'em'. This allows a wolf who accompanies another unit to immediately charge when that unit hits the enemy with an attack. Why not apply this here? When a Hunter is in a unit with sabretusks, he can use 'Sic 'em', if he hits with his ranged attack the sabretusks can immediately charge the model/unit hit. It'd be fun and flavourful atleast

Don't they already have a rule called "Sic 'em"? Or was that from an older edition.

I don't think looking at characters like this is productive at all. Why do people take characters? Because we have to take a general, and we want to have a BSB, and we want some magic.
Non-wizard characters are horrendously inefficient. Combat characters don't make their points back, and that's not the point. Characters are leaders. That's why we take them. And that's what makes the Hunter (and Assasins, and Slayers) such a difficult subject.

Hunters shouldn't be compared to other units. They should do something totally different. I'm still thinking that some kind of board-control is the way to go. Make Hunters do something that no one else can do, and suddenly it doesn't matter how much this-or-that costs, because there's no other options.

How about the hunter inspires gnoblars?
He used to.

Hunters come back with the big game and often are messy about it. Gnoblars are thrilled to see hunters around, because they know that scraps a meat trail in their wake.

Gnoblar units with the trapper upgrade within 12" of a hunter may use his leadership.


Or we could go the typicaly rout for Proposed Rules. All gnoblars on the table gain a 3+ ward and heroic killing blow.

-Matt

I think HE book has made even sarcastic Proposed Rules too tame.

1+ ward and large template HKB.

I like the Sic Em rule and think it has potential.

Combined with Ambush from my Gone Wanderin' rule, I think a Hunter with a Tusk pack could be useful for turning up behind enemy lines and tying stuff up.

I am yet to use to a Hunter in my Ogre army because I don't have the model yet. I plan to kitbash one when I get the battleforce out of a spare Ogre mini.

Oh and I even take a Tyrant from time to time (but can admit that the SM is more competitive for a Lord choice).

In 40k, the Space Wolf Rune Priest has an upgrade that allows him to put a familiar marker on the board during deployment. It counts as a unit for the purposes of where Scouts and the like can enter the board, and friendlies get a +1 when shooting if the target unit is in LoS of the marker.

Something like this would fit the hunter perfectly. One of his pets scouts the battlefield and calls out enemies and the like granting vision, some board control and bonuses.

 magless wrote:
In 40k, the Space Wolf Rune Priest has an upgrade that allows him to put a familiar marker on the board during deployment. It counts as a unit for the purposes of where Scouts and the like can enter the board, and friendlies get a +1 when shooting if the target unit is in LoS of the marker.

Something like this would fit the hunter perfectly. One of his pets scouts the battlefield and calls out enemies and the like granting vision, some board control and bonuses.

Giving leadbelchers +1 to hit should not be an option.

-Matt

Hunters are loners except for giant feral cats. It's even a special rule. So they shouldn't be buffing anyone other than said kitties.

Ok, so they only buff themselves. Either way, its something.

I like the idea of the Hunter using a Tusk or similar to spot enemies. Would be nice with a Harpoon Launcher, especially if it became move and fire.

DukeRustfield wrote:
Hunters are loners except for giant feral cats. It's even a special rule. So they shouldn't be buffing anyone other than said kitties.

Last edition hunters boosted gnoblars.
This edition they boost cats.

If you want to change rules, I see no problem adding fluff from last edition into rules for this edition.

-Matt