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 Kroothawk wrote:

Did you stop to actually read the post? He says he finally bought the item at his FLGS who sold it on release.
And there is no country on earth with a higher density of stores stocking GW products.

Generally speaking, I find Games Workshops severely lack the F part of FLGS.

But yeah, the Dropzone Commander order I made with Wayland this year has been fine. Not ordered anymore because, well... I try to avoid doing £80 orders of toy soldiers every few weeks...

 Kroothawk wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

Nicky J wrote:
by this point i was pretty pissed off and just decided to cancel the order and get the item from my flgs (as the item was now released and in stock)

Trying to skrew you FLGS can be tough sometimes

Did you stop to consider that he may not have a FLGS? Showing a UK flag means that there's a higher than average chance he lives nowhere near any sort of independent store, or worse his only option is a GW.

Did you stop to actually read the post? He says he finally bought the item at his FLGS who sold it on release.
And there is no country on earth with a higher density of stores stocking GW products.

Only as well as you, clearly, as nowhere does he state, in the OP or elsewhere, that 'the item' he ordered was GW, that's just an assumption made because they are well known for fething people about with supply of stock.

He might indeed be referring to his local GW as his FLGS, or he might be referring to an Indy, regardless the density of GW stockists is down to the number of GW stores, Indy stores are scarce in the UK outside of city centres.

All of which is largely incidental to my main point, which was unfortunately undermined by a little cognitive dissonance on my part, which is posting harsh gak, especially aimed at new users, and adding a smiley is an unpleasant habit that I would heartily encourage people to avoid.

It is entirely his right as a consumer to spend his own money wherever the hell he likes, and not be criticised by some random on the Internet for it. It is the business' job to persuade the consumer that the right place to spend it is with them. Your response just came over as trollish and/or condescending and no amount of my missing a piece of info in the OP really changes that.

The one and only thing I ordered from Wayland was delayed by about ten days because they were waiting on an overdue delivery from GW (it being a GW product I'd ordered.)

If I knew I'd have to wait so long for an online purchase to come I'd have paid the extra £2 or so (that I'd saved by shopping online) and gone direct to the GW store.

I understand GW prioritising the supply of stock to their own stores first, but to screw around the big independent sellers isn't good practice.

I'd probably shop with Wayland again, but not for GW products.

I've never pre-ordered from Wayland but I have used them several times to purchase Citadel and non-Citadel models and I've never had any problem with them.

Chrissy_J wrote:
The one and only thing I ordered from Wayland was delayed by about ten days because they were waiting on an overdue delivery from GW (it being a GW product I'd ordered.)

If I knew I'd have to wait so long for an online purchase to come I'd have paid the extra £2 or so (that I'd saved by shopping online) and gone direct to the GW store.

I understand GW prioritising the supply of stock to their own stores first, but to screw around the big independent sellers isn't good practice.

I'd probably shop with Wayland again, but not for GW products.

It worked though, didn't it?

Wayland? Never did get my zombie from them.

All in all though> they seem friendly enough in thier e mail adverts.

I bought a FoW army, making sure all of the items were listed as in stock as I wanted it to arrive reasonably quickly for an event. Heard good things about Wayland and gave them a go.

Turns out I had a months wait with no notification because none of it was in stock. Chap at the other end of the email line got a bit miffed when I pointed this out after making contact to find out where my stuff was. Parcel arrived a few days later.

This is a few years ago and I've never used them since, even when they've had supplies of stuff I was after which I couldn't find elsewhere.

In stock/Not in stock..............its not difficult, is it?

never had an issue with weyland but just because you pre order doesn't guarantee you get the stuff dispatched on release date. sometimes suppliers are slow, distribution isn't without its difficulties. sometimes you just get unlucky.

Used them a few times - once in person at the old 'store' and other mail orders. Got seriously hacked off after going into store, putting several hundred quid behind till and then got the guy in the warehouse barking at the till guy to stop talking to me and get out back - fine, but it cost them quite a lot more 'on the spot' sales as he was talking me into buying when I was in a splash the cash mood.

Stopped using them forever after they failed to deliver non GW products in time for xmas, despite loads of advance ordering and it showing as being in stock. Lied to me repeatedly about what was going on, messed up the refunds and took ages to do simple customer service.

Refuse to have anything to do with them again as in my experience they are utterly inept liars who don't want people in their physical store spending lots of money.

I bought a bunch of Mantic clearance items from them and they showed up within a week to the US. I was perfectly happy with them. A week from UK to USA isn't bad.

Wayland Games came through for me at the weekend, they a) had the Dwarf book in when I dropped by and b) have an echo-y games area that my two kids ran around screaming and generally enjoying the acoustics in for five minutes while I chatted stunties with the guys at the till.

Now some players might complain about that, me I call that good service.

I've spent a considerable amount with wayland in the last year or so. Quite a few £150-200 orders. So much so, I wish they had a loyalty scheme!

They can take a bit of time, particularly with gw stuff, which is frustrating, but they are generally the cheapest out there, and have a massive array of stuff on there.

Ordered some x-wing stuff last month, two separate orders, and both arrived within a couple of days.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I bought a bunch of Mantic clearance items from them and they showed up within a week to the US. I was perfectly happy with them. A week from UK to USA isn't bad.

This was my own experience as well - also ordering Mantic clearance. Stuff that they actually have in stock seems to ship very fast.

Pre-orders... are dicier, especially with GW's current policies.

On the other hand, I have pre-ordered non-GW product from them with no problem. (Which may just meant that I am lucky, or that some companies are more accurate when guessing delivery dates than others.)

And anybody is better than New Wave.

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* Anybody else remember New Wave?

 Kroothawk wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

Nicky J wrote:
by this point i was pretty pissed off and just decided to cancel the order and get the item from my flgs (as the item was now released and in stock)

Trying to skrew you FLGS can be tough sometimes

Did you stop to consider that he may not have a FLGS? Showing a UK flag means that there's a higher than average chance he lives nowhere near any sort of independent store, or worse his only option is a GW.

Did you stop to actually read the post? He says he finally bought the item at his FLGS who sold it on release.
And there is no country on earth with a higher density of stores stocking GW products.

You're assuming it's a GW product there. He hasn't said yet what he ordered, unless I'm blind.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

Nicky J wrote:
by this point i was pretty pissed off and just decided to cancel the order and get the item from my flgs (as the item was now released and in stock)

Trying to skrew you FLGS can be tough sometimes

Did you stop to consider that he may not have a FLGS? Showing a UK flag means that there's a higher than average chance he lives nowhere near any sort of independent store, or worse his only option is a GW.

Did you stop to actually read the post? He says he finally bought the item at his FLGS who sold it on release.
And there is no country on earth with a higher density of stores stocking GW products.

You're assuming it's a GW product there. He hasn't said yet what he ordered, unless I'm blind.

no, dont think i did say anywhere what it was, but it was one of the new gw dwarves.

and krookhawk, i took your orig comment about screwing the flgs in the way it was intended - as a joke - thats what winking smileys are for, right?
i might be new to dakka, but i'm not new to forums

 Nicky J wrote:


no, dont think i did say anywhere what it was, but it was one of the new gw dwarves.

and krookhawk, i took your orig comment about screwing the flgs in the way it was intended - as a joke - thats what winking smileys are for, right?
i might be new to dakka, but i'm not new to forums

Which is precisely why GW mess around the independents supply lines. You bought it direct (I presume the local store was a GW one) and wayland still buy the one you were initially going to get.

This isnt new, the reason GW stores outnumber independents throughout the UK is because this is precisely how GW have operated from the mid 90's(usually combined with opening their own store, which did get everything launch day, on the same street), and they put an awful lot of local stores out of business doing it.

The notion GW have only recently become a ruthless profit at all costs enterprise always astounds me.

Rules of thumb with Wayland:

- if it says the item is in stock then you should be fine
- anything else, put the kettle on

I use them almost exclusively for buying my hobby supplies and when it's just paints and brushes I rarely wait more than a week.

I can confirm that Wayland Games orders require lots of patience. On my (few) past orders I had to wait between 1 and 5 weeks for stuff to arrive.

If and when they offer free shipping, I am usually OK with that.

However, my last order in 2013 (with zero GW products and no pre-orders) had not been shipped after 40 days and so after writing to them I opened up a Paypal case (I am burned child after what Maelstrom Games did).
Their response was that they would not send an order while a Paypal dispute was open.

I can understand that they want to protect themselves, but if I had closed that case, and for some reason or another they would not have managed to deliver, my money would have been gone for good - so it was my protection against theirs (due to their inability to deliver within 45 days, mind you!) and I declined and they cancelled the order and refunded the money. Fair is fair.

I made a new order 3 weeks ago, with all items "available" (this time I was sure to check). And I am still waiting...

In short, their communication and service is generally not a problem. You just CANNOT trust their availability indications - or their distribution agreements, apparently. No shop should need more than 40 days to get items back in stock in this day and age.

treslibras wrote:
I can understand that they want to protect themselves, but if I had closed that case, and for some reason or another they would not have managed to deliver, my money would have been gone for good - so it was my protection against theirs (due to their inability to deliver within 45 days, mind you!) and I declined and they cancelled the order and refunded the money. Fair is fair.

You made the right call. I've been shopping online for 10 years and I took a couple of losses for giving people the benefit of the doubt before I learned that once you give up Paypal protection, sellers just assume that you want them to keep the money and the goods! Maybe it's a UK cultural thing, I dunno.

I've only ordered once from them so far, and it did take a long time to get dispatched - hasn't arrived yet, though it's got a distance to come.

I have had more issues with Total Wargamer tbh - I'm not using them again.

One thing I need to look more closely at next time that I order is if I'd be better off just ordering direct from GW - they have free postage on orders over £40. The postage on an order can easily add up to more than the 10-20% you were supposedly saving from ordering from an independant - and it's likely to be faster delivery.

Hi all,

I just thought I would put up a post to try and answer some of the points raised and clear some things up.

As an independent retailer in the Wargames and miniatures market it can, at time be very difficult to get some items from some suppliers or manufacturers. Due to the nature of the market some manufacturers work on a small scale or have very limited warehouse space, so items have to be cast to order or have to wait while others are being cast. This combined with what can only be described as sparse information regarding product availability can cause delays. In an ideal world we would be able to manufacture items ourselves to stop these delays, as I'm sure you are all aware this is just not possible.

In regards to Games Workshop products we do place large pre-orders for almost all items that are being released as soon as we are able. We try to judge the quantity as best as we can, but sometimes, because of limited release information and the tight window of promotion available to us, the popularity of certain items can require us to order more in almost immediately. Our normal orders from Games Workshop are placed once a week (we are not permitted to place more than one order a week). There are items that are made unavailable to trade customers and at times we only find this out once they do not arrive in our orders.

We moved to a new, bigger warehouse two years ago which includes a huge gaming hall and shop, we have doubled our staffing level and improved our processes. I know we are not perfect and we can always improve. To anyone that has had a bad experience before I welcome you to try us again and contact us if they have any problems or questions at all. We will always be open and honest with you. I appreciate that if you are not happy with the reasons for delays, or it does seem possible you may think that we are lying but I promise you we will never lie.

There are a few product availability statuses, as we offer over 26,000 products, if we listed them as out of stock they would never be ordered, even though we do receive and ship out well over 95% of them in the typical 3-9 working days advertised. The Two main statuses we use are, ✔ Available (Typically Ships in 3-9 Working Days) this means the item is available for us to order and are normally shipped out within this time frame. If a product is listed as ✔ Available (‘X’ Ready to Ship!) that means we have the stated number of that product available in our warehouse. A full list of our product statuses can be found on our FAQ page here http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/faq/info_6.html

Regards
Jake @ Wayland

I've just cancelled a couple of orders as the 9 days passed and I've got an email from them today which says it will probably be another week, I will get the items elsewhere this time, though I do appreciate the 9 day mail being sent.

As mentioned previously, if you are willing to wait to prices are often very good.

I have previously purchased products and been very happy with the service from Wayland however my most recent purchase will be the last.
After waiting 10 working days I contacted Wayland via their online chat only to be informed that my order may take yet another week to complete:-
Order placed February 4th (1 item marked as available ship immediately, 3 items marked as available 3-9 working days)
Contacted Wayland February 19th (10 working days after placement of order)
Informed that stock delivery due 19th hadn't arrived and when it did there would still be a chance that my order would not be a part of the shipment.
Informed during same chat that next stock shipment is due 26th February and another on 28th February.
When I informed the rep that I would cancel if my order was not a part of the 28th February stock delivery he replied that it would be understandable and for the best (28th February marks 19 working days after order placed)

I ordered through Wayland due to an inability to find a Foxtrot Ranger (sniper) via eBay and made the order larger to reduce shipping costs.
I believe that if the stock levels contained more accurate information (ie may take in excess of 15 working days) I would have tried harder to locate the Ranger through other stores even if it meant paying a premium.
As such I will no longer be a customer of Wayland and will no longer recommend their store to friends.

Foxfyre wrote:
I have previously purchased products and been very happy with the service from Wayland however my most recent purchase will be the last.
After waiting 10 working days I contacted Wayland via their online chat only to be informed that my order may take yet another week to complete:-
Order placed February 4th (1 item marked as available ship immediately, 3 items marked as available 3-9 working days)
Contacted Wayland February 19th (10 working days after placement of order)
Informed that stock delivery due 19th hadn't arrived and when it did there would still be a chance that my order would not be a part of the shipment.
Informed during same chat that next stock shipment is due 26th February and another on 28th February.
When I informed the rep that I would cancel if my order was not a part of the 28th February stock delivery he replied that it would be understandable and for the best (28th February marks 19 working days after order placed)

I ordered through Wayland due to an inability to find a Foxtrot Ranger (sniper) via eBay and made the order larger to reduce shipping costs.
I believe that if the stock levels contained more accurate information (ie may take in excess of 15 working days) I would have tried harder to locate the Ranger through other stores even if it meant paying a premium.
As such I will no longer be a customer of Wayland and will no longer recommend their store to friends.

I have no financial motivation or otherwise to defend Wayland, but I have run a small business, much smaller than WG, and I do sympathise with their position.

I will simply ask this question,
"if your business relies on buying from a manufacturer/wholesaler/distributor and selling to a customer, and the person you're buying stock from gives you assurances over timescales, availability etc and let's you down, what do you do?"

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Your experience is pretty normal for Wayland.

Example: I placed an order with them on Jan 30th, all items listed as Available. I got the dispatch notice today.

Delivered yesterday and incomplete with a note saying that the rest is "to follow."

This after taking 18 days to dispatch in the first place

An apology or update would be nice, just an informative email stating that unforseen issues have arisen and the order may take longer than anticipated.
3-9 days is a reasonable window and of course I have no complaints having placed an order with items having that window. Exceeding that by a week (5 working days) is understandable, problems arise all the time but exceeding it by a fortnight (10 working days) with no news is worrying. Even moreso when there is further uncertainty on fulfilling the order within that exceeded fortnight.
I'm sure anyone'd be hard pressed to sell items if they were advertised as Available (3-9 working days but could be 21+ working days).

I'm not saying there's a solution, I'm not even saying I don't sympathise but sympathy is hard earned when they have my money and I have nothing to show for it.

 azreal13 wrote:

"if your business relies on buying from a manufacturer/wholesaler/distributor and selling to a customer, and the person you're buying stock from gives you assurances over timescales, availability etc and let's you down, what do you do?"

Stop selling stock you don't have?

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

"if your business relies on buying from a manufacturer/wholesaler/distributor and selling to a customer, and the person you're buying stock from gives you assurances over timescales, availability etc and let's you down, what do you do?"

Stop selling stock you don't have?

A splendid idea in a vacuum.

 Grot 6 wrote:
Wayland? Never did get my zombie from them.

All in all though> they seem friendly enough in thier e mail adverts.

We only sent out around 8000 of them. However about 200 came back with incorrect addresses, and any that registered multiple times at the same address or all the houses etc down the same road were deleted too, there were quite a few people who tried to get a free army of Zombies by registering their entire street


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Foxfyre wrote:
An apology or update would be nice, just an informative email stating that unforseen issues have arisen and the order may take longer than anticipated.
3-9 days is a reasonable window and of course I have no complaints having placed an order with items having that window. Exceeding that by a week (5 working days) is understandable, problems arise all the time but exceeding it by a fortnight (10 working days) with no news is worrying. Even moreso when there is further uncertainty on fulfilling the order within that exceeded fortnight.
I'm sure anyone'd be hard pressed to sell items if they were advertised as Available (3-9 working days but could be 21+ working days).

I'm not saying there's a solution, I'm not even saying I don't sympathise but sympathy is hard earned when they have my money and I have nothing to show for it.

The thing is emails are sent out when there are delays. Despite reading here, a massive overwhelming proportion of orders ship in the advertised timescales, and many same day. However, where we don't know when an purchase order will arrive to restock and we are relying on a third party to tell us, would you prefer we pass on inaccurate information and promise a date or pass on in many cases vague information? Some will castigate us for one approach some the other.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Your experience is pretty normal for Wayland.

Example: I placed an order with them on Jan 30th, all items listed as Available. I got the dispatch notice today.

Delivered yesterday and incomplete with a note saying that the rest is "to follow."

This after taking 18 days to dispatch in the first place

Hmm, apologies, we know waiting for stuff is frustrating. I don't know your specific order. But I know exactly what will have happened. One of our staff will have viewed your order and for the item that was not available made a judgement that you had waited long enough and split your order with the rest to follow asap.

We have a system limitation, as ideally on a split you should receive one email, with an invoice with a section on the same document to detail what was to follow, a reason and estimated delay.

We are moving to yet another Order management system/ERP in the next few months which will grant is more flexibility.

rich1231 wrote:
The thing is emails are sent out when there are delays.

A large percentage of people in this thread are saying they aren't.
Are you really sure they are?