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From the reaper forum

Reaper Bryan

A PDF of the rules will be available Sept 1. We will share a link.

The PDF will be available during the early part of the KS, not sure yet if it will be on the first day.

I'm looking forward to this KS. I have a lot of big stompy robots to paint already, but I can probably talk myself into getting more.

Now live

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1513061270/reaper-miniatures-cav-strike-operations?ref=discovery

OP now updated with goals and stretch map

NOTE: International backers will be paying actual shipping as in Bones II, the calculator for this is not yet up and working but i'll add it to the op when it is

Never had a Reaper bones white model before, other than something large. How hard is it to straighten curved items? I figure the usual hot water mix, bend back into place? They picked a horrible picture for their Wight model since the weapons looked bent.

Just nabbed an early bird. Though there's no cost savings, it's pretty neat that the early bird actually gets you some product early.

Will be watching to see what happens next!

 Dark Severance wrote:
Never had a Reaper bones white model before, other than something large. How hard is it to straighten curved items? I figure the usual hot water mix, bend back into place? They picked a horrible picture for their Wight model since the weapons looked bent.

If it's something reletivly solid hot water works ok

for some stuff (eg swords on human sized figures) nothing really helps

My personal opinion is it's a decent material for large stuff (like this will be),

but only really good for rank and file stuff for human sized minis (personally I'd get a metal version of my RPG character)

when it comes to painting use paint straight out of the bottle without thinning it for a first coat. (If you must prime I'd avoid spray cans as some of the propellants can react with the bones plastic leaving it sticky)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

when it comes to painting use paint straight out of the bottle without thinning it for a first coat. (If you must prime I'd avoid spray cans as some of the propellants can react with the bones plastic leaving it sticky)

Huh, haven't had problems with Army Painter sprays.

 judgedoug wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

when it comes to painting use paint straight out of the bottle without thinning it for a first coat. (If you must prime I'd avoid spray cans as some of the propellants can react with the bones plastic leaving it sticky)

Huh, haven't had problems with Army Painter sprays.

I have had that issue too.
I have just been brushing on my primers.
I have also had luck with 50/50 water and white glue as a sealant.

I'm in at the $1 level for now to get updates and such. I still have all my old metal CAV models, so I don't really need more at this point, but I'll see what they come out with.

Looks like they made $20K in around 3 hours time.

...due to the speed of updates, I don't know if they were expecting that to happen with big stompy robots.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dark Severance wrote:
Never had a Reaper bones white model before, other than something large. How hard is it to straighten curved items? I figure the usual hot water mix, bend back into place? They picked a horrible picture for their Wight model since the weapons looked bent.

Hot water works well enough (really hot, and long enough to heat the whole part - common mistake is to just dip it in and take it out...but plastic is slow to heat up, and you need to relax the whole part to avoid it bouncing back to bent). For these though...I would probably use hot wire. A bit of steel wire, heated and inserted into the barrel of the weapon creates something that will keep it straight.

Picking one that has a bit of a bend though sets expectations. Bones will bend. When the Chinese factory packages up a few thousand of them and crams them into boxes for shipping to the US, everything gets bent. A lot will pop back into place, but a bit will still be bent when you get your package. It isn't hard to fix at all - but if people are expecting perfectly straight parts - this helps them to see what the final product will actually look like.

Meh. Is Reaper some sort of pariah in the gaming industry that it can't ask an EU company to handle EU distribution, or do they just not care? Well, as in Bones II, I'm not going to subsidize US shipping.

Only matters when it happens to me? How upset were you during bones 1 when the US was subsidizing most of the shipping for foreign backers?

I'll be getting in on this quite soon. I want to see a stretch goal or two first.

 Mattlov wrote:
I'll be getting in on this quite soon. I want to see a stretch goal or two first.

You can still jump in now while there are still some early bird pledges left, and then cancel later if you don't like the stretch goals.

I don't see this one being as successful as the other Bones kickstarters, due to the more limited appeal of CAV, so i don't expect to see gobs of stretch goals.

 judgedoug wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

when it comes to painting use paint straight out of the bottle without thinning it for a first coat. (If you must prime I'd avoid spray cans as some of the propellants can react with the bones plastic leaving it sticky)

Huh, haven't had problems with Army Painter sprays.

It does not seem to be a problem with all sprays; some work fine,

some work fine for most people (but cause problems for others.... my guess this is people really spaying a lot of paint or spraying somewhere the propellant can't escape)

some seem to give you sticky models however they are used

so my general advise (to cover those with no experience with bones or even mini painting) is probably avoid spray primers just to make sure the problem doesn't happen (there was at least one sad report of somebody who'd sprayed a significant portion of his BONES I pledge at the same time and pretty much looked lost the lot.. I never found out if he'd managed to work out a fix)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's a faction list CAVBoss posted in the KS comments

http://www.talon-games.com/newcavs/MODELLIST.pdf

(I wonder if it's a hint of things to come?)

also a printable poster... For your wall or to pimp the KS at your local gaming space

http://talon-games.com/downloads/CAVSOFLYER1.pdf

Just hit the first stretch goal!
Free Talon, and $5 thunderbird option.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

when it comes to painting use paint straight out of the bottle without thinning it for a first coat. (If you must prime I'd avoid spray cans as some of the propellants can react with the bones plastic leaving it sticky)

Huh, haven't had problems with Army Painter sprays.

It does not seem to be a problem with all sprays; some work fine,

some work fine for most people (but cause problems for others.... my guess this is people really spaying a lot of paint or spraying somewhere the propellant can't escape)

some seem to give you sticky models however they are used

so my general advise (to cover those with no experience with bones or even mini painting) is probably avoid spray primers just to make sure the problem doesn't happen (there was at least one sad report of somebody who'd sprayed a significant portion of his BONES I pledge at the same time and pretty much looked lost the lot.. I never found out if he'd managed to work out a fix)

Mostly it seems (though I could be wrong and there could be exceptions) that the sprays that work are acrylic sprays like Army painter, and most of the one's that don't are oil based sprays with fairly harsh solvents in them. Those harsh solvents are what make them stick so well to polystyrene models, but some of them seem to interact with the PVC of the bones figures and leave them a bit sticky.

I just slap gesso on my bones figures and haven't had any problems.

 wana10 wrote:
Only matters when it happens to me? How upset were you during bones 1 when the US was subsidizing most of the shipping for foreign backers?

I was pretty upset with Reaper taking so long to ship that USPS doubled their prices in the meantime, yeah. The original charge was perfectly realistic. But I'd have paid extra if they had asked, unforeseen circumstances and all that. But instead, this apparently gives them carte blanche to screw over non-US backers forever as some sort of ridiculous revenge?

The reaper free shipping to the USA isn't really a new thing or a way of dissing Europe. They've had free shipping for orders over $35 to the USA for a long time now.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Meh. Is Reaper some sort of pariah in the gaming industry that it can't ask an EU company to handle EU distribution, or do they just not care? Well, as in Bones II, I'm not going to subsidize US shipping.

Reaper says its orders are so complex, that it costs them as much to ship from their warehouse as it would with a EU distributor. Wouldn't be surprised, though, if they're not doing that because that's not how they do everyday business.

And no point spending more effort on customers who cost more. Take a look at the Bones II vs. Bones I funding and number of customers to see the impact of "actual shipping costs": Less than a 10% decrease in money, for slightly over 10% decrease in backers. That's a good tradeoff -- fewer backers means less overhead. If these backers were mostly international, that's even less work and therefore costs for Reaper.

EDIT Albino Dragon's blog why they don't do international shipping: http://www.albinodragon.com/blog/why-we-no-longer-ship-internationally/
...and how Stonemaier Games says it's possible: http://stonemaiergames.com/how-to-provide-free-shipping-worldwide-on-kickstarter-a-comprehensive-guide/

Still, it *would* be good to see more countries running KS for miniatures and other projects in their own countries. Metal and resin miniatures, and Hirst Arts terrain certainly can be made locally. If there are gamers all over the globe, surely there can be sculptors and miniature makers? Not that I've been following non-plastic miniature campaigns, but RAFM is the on miniatures company using KS and not in the UK or US.

What else... Reaper started off in manufacturing, not miniatures gaming. In fact, their first business was making those bowling trophies and other awards, as well as historical model airplanes, then Magic the Gathering counters.




Finally, if you look at most miniature game KS, guess what the backers want: miniatures. In other words, it's the tangible man-dollies the backers will pay for (although this could be a self-whatever prophecy, as Dungeon Saga's SG's were often game content related, not mini's), not the intangible work of rules writing and playtesting. Many companies give away the rules free to sell miniatures. Well, if you're already selling miniatures, why make rules? Reaper's origins as an RPG miniatures company meant that others wrote the RPG rules indirectly for Reaper.

Now, is this a wise decision? I can't find Mantic Games vs. Reaper's annual revenue, but I'm guessing Mantic's selling more stuff than Reaper, and doing a better job than any company in filling GW's missing product lines (eg. Dungeon Saga for Warhammer Quest, DeadZone for Necromunda, Mantic's Kings of War skirmish game for Mordheim, etc.). Reaper's Bones line is something of co-evolution, perhaps becoming direct competition. Mantic can certainly create more Dungeon Saga miniatures that are suitable for RPGs.

More importantly... HALF OFF PAINTS Any idea if Rach Red is different from Blood Red?

This is still an extremely niche hobby, and while it's true that local markets can be served by local companies, it's definitely not always the most efficient way to go about things.

1) Games systems (like CAV) need a certain level of playerbase to have a sustained lifespan - you might have produced the finest Chilean Sci-Fi skirmish game the world has ever seen, but it won't be widely played unless it is internationally available.

2) At the end of the day, models need to get manufactured, and economies of scale come into effect. If you're hand-casting resin monsters for £100, that can be done as a cottage industry. If you're mass-manufacturing plastics for cheap/large scale wargames, you have to be a moderately sized company, or have a lot of cash to hand.

Reaper is one of a very few companies to offer what they do through Kickstarter - a ton of plastic models for a reasonable price. You can't make the choice to support a local industry instead, because there is nothing comparable on the market.

The "controversy" is the fact that a company the size and age of Reaper has no interest in proper international distribution - they don't want to spread their brand or develop new markets. Which is fine, it's just that it differs from the standard Kickstarter approach that people are calibrated for, and people feel aggravated that they either have to miss out on a mega deal, or pay nearly twice what the US backers do because Reaper doesn't have any kind of system in place.

Borrowed from the Reaper forums a shot of some metal CAV figures (the Bones ones should be pretty much the same size) alongside some 15mm Ground Zero Games minis

ced1106 wrote:
And no point spending more effort on customers who cost more. Take a look at the Bones II vs. Bones I funding and number of customers to see the impact of "actual shipping costs": Less than a 10% decrease in money, for slightly over 10% decrease in backers. That's a good tradeoff -- fewer backers means less overhead. If these backers were mostly international, that's even less work and therefore costs for Reaper.

That's fine, it's capitalism at work and their prerogative, just as it's my prerogative to vote with my wallet. As we say in Slovenia, "Clear bills make for good friendships."

I've specifically asked about the paints and Reaper has said there are 3 new colours in the paints (and 3 existing ones)

New Paint

Rach Red
Malvernian Purple
Adonese Green

Existing Paints

Templar Blue
Ritterlich Blue
Terran Khaki

Interesting, I'll keep an eye on this. Not sure what I'd do with 2 inch robots though. Was the original game fun? How many dudes did you need on a side?

Those are some seriously 90s looking mechs there. Not sure where I stand on those designs these days. They do have a certain charm.

Now if Reaper wanted to do some scenery packs, that could coincidentally be used at any scale, well, I may have to jump in then.

I may wait and see if they end up having any big huge mechs come stomping around.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

ced1106 wrote:
And no point spending more effort on customers who cost more. Take a look at the Bones II vs. Bones I funding and number of customers to see the impact of "actual shipping costs": Less than a 10% decrease in money, for slightly over 10% decrease in backers. That's a good tradeoff -- fewer backers means less overhead. If these backers were mostly international, that's even less work and therefore costs for Reaper.

That's fine, it's capitalism at work and tier prerogative, just as it's my prerogative to vote with my wallet. As we say in Slovenia, "Clear bills make for good friendships."

Yeah I get the feeling that Reaper has no great interest of the wide world, if they are only intrested in their country fine let them I'll just ignore them as they ignore ROW....

Stretch goals seem kind of boring...

The one currently waiting to be unlocked is the ability to buy some paints that already exist?

Plus most of the stretch goals are basically "you can buy X mini".

Reaper's past kickstarters kind of got their huge success based on just how good of a deal it was, nobody was really too excited about the quality of the minis.

It's obviously doing alright, but it's going to be a surprisingly low funded kickstarter IMO. Seems to be a pretty low priority for Reaper and most gamers see pretty apathetic.

Yeah, seems a bit meh.

Average minis without the massive Bones discount and no hardcopy of the rules means it's a non-starter for my consideration.

3 of the paints are existing colours, 3 are new (whether you actually want them is up to you)

and 5 out of the 6 visible stretch goals added a free mini as well as the option to buy another type

so it's not a bad deal as the CAVs are a fair bit larger than the 'human' sized stuff that made up the majority of the previous Bones freebies

although you're right it's not the 'deal' of Bones I, Mech games are much more niche than generic fantasy (etc) so it was never going to be as popular.

Its also in partnership with Talon Games which may mean rather than having the who weight of Reaper behind it, it may only have an amount equivalent to Talon's stake (if you see what I mean) which could mean less scope for freebies