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I wonder if FFG will end up subcontracting GW's factory to start producing hard plastic Star Wars kits anytime soon.
They might well need the extra income!
“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.”
I'm really happy to hear X-Wing is doing so well for them, but I never would have imagined that miniature sales had skyrocketed to a THIRD of what they make. I hope the number only increases and Fantasy Flight become open to doing meatier miniatures games. Fingers crossed!
LuciusAR wrote: I think an entry into full on miniature gaming might jeopardise their GW licence. GW don't want to subsidise direct competition.
FFG already was putting out the Dust miniature game and there was no impact on their GW related properties. I doubt GW would notice or care if they started doing a Star Wars miniature game. And besides, by the time FFG does put it out, GW may have gone tits up anyways.
LuciusAR wrote: I think an entry into full on miniature gaming might jeopardise their GW licence. GW don't want to subsidise direct competition.
FFG already was putting out the Dust miniature game and there was no impact on their GW related properties. I doubt GW would notice or care if they started doing a Star Wars miniature game. And besides, by the time FFG does put it out, GW may have gone tits up anyways.
The last part of that statement is probably the most relevant.
Another point to add is that GW cant much afford to lose a licensee at this point. GW needs the easy profit.
I think GW probably has noticed FFG's success with Star Wars miniatures products, and I very well bet that somebody at GW cares, even if they'll never admit it. If they either didn't know or didn't care, they'd be far greater fools that I take them for, and I take them for inveterate fools.
As I said in another thread many months ago, FFG is in a position right now such that it doesn't need GWat all, and GW is in a position right now such that it desperately needs to keep collecting license fees from FFG. Ergo, FFG can do whatever the feth it wants and GW can't do much about other than to dig its hole a little deeper.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/24 01:30:53
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
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Wasn't there a thread about a skirmish Star Wars game coming out soonish?
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Was going to say, it's not full-on tabletop wargaming, but certainly a big step in that direction.
And there is definitely a big overlap there, I can see the wargaming webstores making a big deal of Imperial Assault (in fact I think I already got an email from Wayland Games about it, and the thing isn't being released for another 6 months!)
H.B.M.C. wrote: Plus there's the added fact that GW probably doesn't see FFG as competition as GW thinks it is the hobby, rather than simply part of it.
You mean GW has no competition, It is all the fault of their consumers!
The other day, my Rogue Trader group was playing and we started talking about what would happen if GW's financial trend continued and the topic of who could buy them out came around. FFG was brought up. What do ya'll think, could FFG buy out GW completely at the rate both companies are going?
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Fantasy flight is already making games with the GWip, in the form of conquest ccg. It looks to be a solid game that can compete with warmachine high command, and I doubt gw would want to jeopardize a new leg to stand on.
Fantasy: 4000 - WoC, 1500 - VC, 1500 - Beastmen
40k: 2000 - White Scars
Hordes: 5/100 - Circle of Orboros
I love Armada, and xwing looks good too, having said that, i concern with FFG is that their games are licence based. What happens when the licence run out?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
crazyfoxdemon wrote: The other day, my Rogue Trader group was playing and we started talking about what would happen if GW's financial trend continued and the topic of who could buy them out came around. FFG was brought up. What do ya'll think, could FFG buy out GW completely at the rate both companies are going?
Not a chance unless we are talking about an already dead broke GW like THQ was. While big FFG and GW are on completely different scales.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/25 12:11:28
xxvaderxx wrote: I love Armada, and xwing looks good too, having said that, i concern with FFG is that their games are licence based. What happens when the licence run out?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
crazyfoxdemon wrote: The other day, my Rogue Trader group was playing and we started talking about what would happen if GW's financial trend continued and the topic of who could buy them out came around. FFG was brought up. What do ya'll think, could FFG buy out GW completely at the rate both companies are going?
Not a chance unless we are talking about an already dead broke GW like THQ was. While big FFG and GW are on completely different scales.
Yea, FFG is not buying GW. If GW is in a death spiral and doesn't manage to pull itself out, somebody will buy up the assets eventually. My money is on Hasbro, but there are compelling reasons to disagree about Hasbro.
Ultimately, I don't think it matters a whole heck of a lot. 40K will still be around in some form or another. If nobody does anything with it commercially, the fans will. If GW does get bought out, whoever buys it can't do a much worse job than GW is doing now.
At the end of the day, we all know very, very well what happens to even the most popular table top games when the company goes kaput. Most of the time they die back to a hardcore group of fans, sometimes the game gets reinvigorated.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/25 15:14:24
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
Most likely GW will be bought out by some holding company that will try to get it growing, which means more consumer friendly practices.
It will take many years before FFG will be in the position where it could fully buy out GW, assuming they would ever want to, but they are on a course to be bigger than GW in every possible way.
Like a lot of companies, I doubt that FFG would buy out GW, even if they wanted to. They've had exponential growth from producing games using other companies' IP. There's no reason to change course now.
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon
Actually, FFG has been doing its own stuff for a while now, trying to setup their Runebound setting. Sadly, it's been made a bit too generic to fit all the boardgames they use it for.
However, I'm still hoping they create some kind of generic game using the Star Wars RPG rules, fantasy or not.
Eh, personally I just see FFG as pushing board games disguised as RPGs and tabletops (with the exception of the 40kRPG line). System locked dice, too many other system locked peripherals (anyone else recognize the folding ruler just like the one from dreadfleet?) that just make it impossible for me to take any of it seriously.
Dreadfleet's problem wasn't the ruler, or specialty dice.
Dreadfleet's problem was that it was a poorly designed game with little appeal.
The dice and components they made for games like Descent, and X-Wing, and even the SWRPG all serve a useful purpose. Sure, there is always the aspect of having stuff be game specific.
However, the dice in Descent help distill multiple rolls into a single roll in a very efficient manner, that also helps generate additional interesting outcomes without having to consult a chart. You get to hit with range modifiers, and damage, along with extra effects like crits all in one roll.
In games like X-Wing and SWRPGs, the dice help keep the numbers involved in the game to low amounts. No more nested abilities with stacking modifiers that make every single roll a math slog.
I'd actually love it if someone took the ideas they helped pioneer and used them for more in-depth miniature wargames. For example, the same specialty dice and components could be used to turn 40k's more ridiculous units, such as the literal bucket of dice rolling, into something more manageable that also generates results more interesting than simple hits and damage.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/26 00:39:03
Vertrucio wrote: ...distill multiple rolls into a single roll in a very efficient manner, that also helps generate additional interesting outcomes without having to consult a chart...
Hence a board game. I'd consider it 'hiding the mechanics' and a disadvantage rather than any sort of advantage to have specialty dice. It's elements like that which make WHFRPG 4e such a pain to play (among other things like mandatory cards rather than just for reference) if you're trying to play by post or by conference rather than in-person (and some people don't have that luxury, you'll be surprised).
Peripherals in a game are fine, but mandatory peripherals (which are system-locked) don't make the cut in my books. They're props which are supposed to add to the existing experience, not be the experience itself.
However, the dice in Descent help distill multiple rolls into a single roll in a very efficient manner, that also helps generate additional interesting outcomes without having to consult a chart. You get to hit with range modifiers, and damage, along with extra effects like crits all in one roll.
The whole part you quoted, becouse it does make a difference. That is a example of good game design and doesn't need to be tied to special dice. Many table top miniature game already do this, of course GW doesn't but I did say it is good game design.
Peter: As we all know, Christmas is that mystical time of year when the ghost of Jesus rises from the grave to feast on the flesh of the living! So we all sing Christmas Carols to lull him back to sleep.
Bob: Outrageous, How dare he say such blasphemy. I've got to do something.
Man #1: Bob, there's nothing you can do.
Bob: Well, I guess I'll just have to develop a sense of humor.
Vertrucio wrote: ...distill multiple rolls into a single roll in a very efficient manner, that also helps generate additional interesting outcomes without having to consult a chart...
Hence a board game. I'd consider it 'hiding the mechanics' and a disadvantage rather than any sort of advantage to have specialty dice. It's elements like that which make WHFRPG 4e such a pain to play (among other things like mandatory cards rather than just for reference) if you're trying to play by post or by conference rather than in-person (and some people don't have that luxury, you'll be surprised).
Peripherals in a game are fine, but mandatory peripherals (which are system-locked) don't make the cut in my books. They're props which are supposed to add to the existing experience, not be the experience itself.
That seems like a weird position to me. Wargames should be defined by tactical and strategic depth, not by having complex and cumbersome rules. You can have cumbersome rules and little strategic depth and I'd call it a bad wargame. Special tools that speed up gameplay without decreasing depth are a great idea.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/26 02:13:22
It seems to me that things like special dice, manoeuvre templates and shield dials are ways to crystallise and speed up the kind of look-up tables, movement diagrams and record keeping forms that always existed in the more complex kind of games that modern players have moved away from due to the dislike of such elements.
There would seem to be a great virtue in play aids that enhance tactical game play by reducing the amount of flow charts and so on.
I hate special dice, templates, or bases. Mostly because when I lose them, break them or they wear out; the game is no longer in production and I can't get easy replacements.
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From a personal POV they seem to be giving gamer's what they want, (supply & demand is still an issue though)
Are they really giving us what players want? How about I want to paint my and make my minis? They are already done. It would be nice to do some work and take pride in that part.
Also where is my Battlestar Galactica min game?
I wouldn't say FFG is giving everything what people want. It's just that so much people are not getting what they want from GW that it seems FFG is giving people what they want. I know a lot of people on the internet want massive games with lots of miniatures. FFG is not doing that.
I think what FFG is giving people is Good Quality Work and SUPPORT that GW is not giving. Clear concise rules. (yes I know every games has rules problems but FFG seems to take care of it better) and the quality of they minis we feel we are getting great value for compared to GW.
Will FFG dodge into the 10 or more factions with lots of units? Will they give us big pieces that we want? Lots of people want a great Mech game. FFG is not doing that. Yes they are others that do it, but FFG is not doing it. FFG is great at giving out good small scale games. Do they do anything in large scale or many mini games? Lots of people want that as well.
All I am trying to say is FFG is not giving what people want. They are doing what will make FFG the most money for them, but in return give out a great product and respects their customers. They are no "White Knight" and GW is not "the Evil Empire" they just do things differently.
I should correct that. FFG is giving people some of the things they want, but not EVERYTHING they want, as from what the intent was given.
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
Given the sales of X-Wing, I think they are giving a hell of a lot of people what they want. Guess what? If you want to repaint your X-Wing models, that's also very easily done. Check our very own Dakka forum for many examples.
To turn the question into "is FFG giving everyone, everything that they want?" is disingenuous at best.
From a personal POV they seem to be giving gamer's what they want, (supply & demand is still an issue though)
Are they really giving us what players want? How about I want to paint my and make my minis? They are already done. It would be nice to do some work and take pride in that part.
Also where is my Battlestar Galactica min game?
I wouldn't say FFG is giving everything what people want. It's just that so much people are not getting what they want from GW that it seems FFG is giving people what they want. I know a lot of people on the internet want massive games with lots of miniatures. FFG is not doing that.
I think what FFG is giving people is Good Quality Work and SUPPORT that GW is not giving. Clear concise rules. (yes I know every games has rules problems but FFG seems to take care of it better) and the quality of they minis we feel we are getting great value for compared to GW.
Will FFG dodge into the 10 or more factions with lots of units? Will they give us big pieces that we want? Lots of people want a great Mech game. FFG is not doing that. Yes they are others that do it, but FFG is not doing it. FFG is great at giving out good small scale games. Do they do anything in large scale or many mini games? Lots of people want that as well.
All I am trying to say is FFG is not giving what people want. They are doing what will make FFG the most money for them, but in return give out a great product and respects their customers. They are no "White Knight" and GW is not "the Evil Empire" they just do things differently.
I should correct that. FFG is giving people some of the things they want, but not EVERYTHING they want, as from what the intent was given.
Yeah, that seem to be YOUR issue. But, really has nothing to do with FFG and the products they put out.
Peter: As we all know, Christmas is that mystical time of year when the ghost of Jesus rises from the grave to feast on the flesh of the living! So we all sing Christmas Carols to lull him back to sleep.
Bob: Outrageous, How dare he say such blasphemy. I've got to do something.
Man #1: Bob, there's nothing you can do.
Bob: Well, I guess I'll just have to develop a sense of humor.
From a personal POV they seem to be giving gamer's what they want, (supply & demand is still an issue though)
Are they really giving us what players want? How about I want to paint my and make my minis? They are already done. It would be nice to do some work and take pride in that part.
Also where is my Battlestar Galactica min game?
I wouldn't say FFG is giving everything what people want. It's just that so much people are not getting what they want from GW that it seems FFG is giving people what they want. I know a lot of people on the internet want massive games with lots of miniatures. FFG is not doing that.
I think what FFG is giving people is Good Quality Work and SUPPORT that GW is not giving. Clear concise rules. (yes I know every games has rules problems but FFG seems to take care of it better) and the quality of they minis we feel we are getting great value for compared to GW.
Will FFG dodge into the 10 or more factions with lots of units? Will they give us big pieces that we want? Lots of people want a great Mech game. FFG is not doing that. Yes they are others that do it, but FFG is not doing it. FFG is great at giving out good small scale games. Do they do anything in large scale or many mini games? Lots of people want that as well.
All I am trying to say is FFG is not giving what people want. They are doing what will make FFG the most money for them, but in return give out a great product and respects their customers. They are no "White Knight" and GW is not "the Evil Empire" they just do things differently.
I should correct that. FFG is giving people some of the things they want, but not EVERYTHING they want, as from what the intent was given.
Yeah, that seem to be YOUR issue. But, really has nothing to do with FFG and the products they put out.
What do you mean my issue? I don't have an issue. All I am said was FFG doesn't give everything to everyone as was mentioned earlier.
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
& 
