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#Notthisguy

I am Swastakowey and I am part of the reason.

Years ago I used to spend vast money stocks on GW product. From my First Tau battle force right down to the special edition Guardsmen. Over time I began to realize how terrible the company is, but I kept giving them chances. I then decided on a whim to simply sell it all and rebuild my army from scratch using non GW bits. The army has grown but my love for 40k has not.

Now I have joy in my hobby. Due to the huge cost of GW product in NZ its actually cheaper for me to buy 2 basic armies, all the rule books and more spare models to play Bolt Action, than it is to start a GW army. For a little more than half the cost of a GW army I got a FoW army. For the cost of a GW army I got a huge fleet AND a Planet Fall army plus terrain and extra books for the Firestorm Games.

I spend more money than I used to but get more for my money. Now my main concern is space.

The above is how I became part of the reason.

I mean, when one single Cadian costs $4.44 USD roughly (I think), the other wargames seem very cheap overall. Especially when you look at the Cadian model itself.

In a way, im kind of glad. If GW where cheaper then I may not have tried other games simply because nobody else would. But pricing and quality all changed that.

I just started infinity. My first order was $500 to Corvus belli. GW makes me vomit a little in my mouth.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I bought Space Hulk. That's it. And that's all I'll be buying. It's a great game with great models, and I feel it's still great value. But things like the stupid Logan Sled? Bad value for a crap model. I feel sorry for anyone with crap taste enough to enjoy that plastic abortion.

I like that plastic abortion so much that if I ever add land speeders to my space Wolves theure all going to be on sleds too.

#Wellitain'tme.

Hell no, just finalised my Chaos Space Marines Army List and half way finishing off and i'll be expanding over to an Undead Army with that stunning Nagash figure.

Far from pulling back I am expanding. I'll still get my stuff from overseas and bypass the local market. GW still gets my money.

Just my tuppence worth.

I bought some SM bundles this year which were good value from a US discounter ($24 for 10 new tac marines), I hope that helps show them we want their stuff when they play ball, even if they're still on the steep end of the spectrum.

Other than that #impartoffthereason and have no intent of purchasing any GW rulebooks, novels or models. Perhaps FFG 40k rulebooks but again that's similar to the bundle purchases - they're great books with great fluff and rules at good prices. You have to speak with your wallet - imo that does also involve purchasing things when they *are* reasonable, however rare that may be. Though even massively discounted a lot of GW stuff is still way overpriced so you have to be careful. If GW want my $3-$5K a year on hobby purchases they're going to have to do a lot better. Until then Mantic, FFG and a number of other companies are now getting the entire share, not just the lions share as in the last couple years.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I've bought more new GW this year than I have in the last ten. I'm part of a different reason.

Did you buy Santa Logan? Cuz if you did, I will personally come to Washington and slap the gak out of you. For your own good, of course.

logan, 2 stormwolves, dread and stormclaw.

nanook wrote:
Found this quote in the GW life cycle thread and thought it was a great idea!

Who else is part of the reason GW took a dive in sales and profit this year?

I'm part of the reason because I used to spend £50-100 a month on GW stuff - books, paint, models etc...

BUT with the move to 7th edition I have really lost interest in GW. Prices are too high, new products seem a bit childish (murdefang) and I just feel they couldn't care less about me as a veteran gamer at all. Oh, they want my money but there seems no love for the game.

Anyone else feel this way?

Someone better at twitter campaigns take up the mantle and send this message to GW.

with in 1 week of 7th ed rules coming out. I read maybe half, then dumped it on ebay along w/ all my armies except one.

I have bought bugger all this past year and a half on GW proper despite having 4 of my armies released... Tyranids, Space Wolves, IG and Lizardmen.

I have, however, bought some DKOK, and that adds up fast Only a few squads at the moment though.

I'm part of the reason since I realised WH/40K rules were all about listbuilding, and persisting in fiddling about with gratuitous nitpicky details despite driving players to buy ever more and increasingly expensive models.

I think the last major retail purchases I made were the 40K fifth ed Battle for Black Reach(?) box, the ork codex, and a discounted ork battleforce. Most of those are still lying around on sprues. Since then the number of model purchases I made from the local GW shop can be counted on the fingers of one hand, so few that I can remember them all: a plastic nurgle champion, a plastic wight king, a finecast Crom (ironically in good condition), a box of Empire knights, and a box of LotR dwarf warriors. Include indy discounts and you can add a box of HE shadow warriors/sisters of avelorn. (and that because I had thoughts of sculpting and selling vaguely feminine legs bits for aall those leftover sisters bits in the box)

I've definitely made a big move away from GW. Pricing was my main complaint. I've bought a few things - the SM book, the Inquisition ebook and one of the plastic dwarf characters - but it's been vastly outnumbered by spending on Deadzone and now Bolt Action. I still play 40K, as well, it's just that I use the models I already have.

I was ready to buy the 7th edition rules, but I realised I would rather buy Deadzone stuff - getting the entire Rebel range, one of the expansion books and the second wave cards for about the same price. For that game all you need is a faction starter box and straight away you can make multiple lists.

And as for Bolt Action, if you buy a box of plastic infantry you've got a legal army there (1 officer and two infantry squads) for less than the price of a Tactical Squad. Only useable in tiny games, but it still works. When my most recent order arrives my 1000 point BA army will be done for the time being, and I'll have got it and the rulebook for a total of £106 (and that's using Warlord minis, not even buying from cheaper ranges).

The main disadvantages 40K has against these two games are price and rules. Now that it's more like 28mm Epic and the rules have ballooned so much, you're spending a small fortune for an army and then games can last for an entire afternoon. I've started looking at games with a lower barrier to entry and more accessible rules.

When I eventually get into Bolt Action, I'm going to get a couple of the ~£50 army deals (Fallschirmjagers + Panzer Grenadiers for a Band of Brothers Battle of Carentan themed force) and a couple Stugs, Panzers and Tigers, all in one or two big bulk purchase (local FLGS does a big discount for bulk purchases)

That'll come to around £200, but it'll probably be the equivalent of an Apocalypse sized force and I won't ever need to expand again.

An equivalent sized collection for 40K would probably be upwards of at least £500.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
When I eventually get into Bolt Action, I'm going to get a couple of the ~£50 army deals (Fallschirmjagers + Panzer Grenadiers for a Band of Brothers Battle of Carentan themed force) and a couple Stugs, Panzers and Tigers, all in one or two big bulk purchase (local FLGS does a big discount for bulk purchases)

That'll come to around £200, but it'll probably be the equivalent of an Apocalypse sized force and I won't ever need to expand again.

An equivalent sized collection for 40K would probably be upwards of at least £500.

I dropped $200 on bolt action recently with a promotion and it was an excellent purchase. Great quality models, far better price and most importantly, good looking rules. 150 infantry and 6 tanks/APCs... can't complain about that! (admittedly, a very good promotion that is now over hehe)

Most of my stuff is second hand, althogh GW is still getting the smackers, i refuse to pay full retail

also havent bought and rules or codex's for some time.

140 dollars for frankly a terrible set of rules, if they made the rules as good as the fluff and the miniatures, then yeah id buy them

#impartofthereason

With the dwendling player base where i am and the fact that i can no longer afford to even pay 5$ for a single bottle of paint without feeling like im being ripped off has left a very bad taste in my mouth. I have a WM/H army, 2 40k armies and a lot of RPG stuff.

Im looking at P3, Vallajo and other paints but i havent found any i like yet. we'll see if i can find one that works.

Im switching my money over to RPG and FFGs items. GW earned the most out of my friends this years via me with a new chimera for my birthday. Otherwise i go to ebay. Although its second hand, i still prefer it over spending my money directly.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I bought Space Hulk. That's it. And that's all I'll be buying. It's a great game with great models, and I feel it's still great value. But things like the stupid Logan Sled? Bad value for a crap model. I feel sorry for anyone with crap taste enough to enjoy that plastic abortion.

I'm going to be "that person" and disagree, I actually think the sled works for what the Wolves are, and their Viking influences. Then again my favorite Batman movie is the Adam West one so my tastes are admittedly not the best. I mean the Exorcist tank is what sold me on playing Sisters (or as I like to explain it to people "it's a tank, with a church organ on top that fires missiles! ").

Some of us just like cheesy things and can't help it.

#partoftheproblem

I wanted to support my FLGS and picked up 40K again. Interest has grown there with the drop of 7th ed and there's a regular group of players that all seem cool. Plus, Eldar. Still enjoy painting them after all these years and I really like the variety of units.

 Swan-of-War wrote:
#partoftheproblem

I wanted to support my FLGS and picked up 40K again. Interest has grown there with the drop of 7th ed and there's a regular group of players that all seem cool. Plus, Eldar. Still enjoy painting them after all these years and I really like the variety of units.

I was almost in this boat, but instead I support a different FLGS that has Warmachine every weekend. So I don't have to spend money supporting a rubbish game, no matter how good the figures are.

Yes i am part of the reason

I've sold my armies and bought heavily into Warmachine and Infinity. Not only does GW not get a cent from me anymore, but I try to steer people away from it when I can.

I'm part of GW's problem that they created.

I'm not part of the reason for the last decline, because I gave up on GW back around 5th.

I'm part of the reason. I haven't played GW since March 2013, I've got a mass of stuff that I'm no longer enthusiastic about building or painting. So I sell my stuff on eBay or trade it off for other things. Others buy my stuff 2nd hand instead of straight from GW. GW doesn't make a sale, hence I'm part of the reason.

#notme

Im still as bad as I was twenty years ago, I spend more at GW each year !

I bought 6th edition after my daughter turned one. For a year or so I didn't have the cash to do much hobby stuff due to the high cost of bringing up a child. Anyway, end of 2013, daughter was out of nappies and child costs went down leaving me with more hobby money. I started up a 40k daemon army and even popped into the local GW store now and then for a chat. Then just as I was getting up to speed with the rules, bang, 7th edition.

I never got to play 6th and feel I just wasted my money on the big rule book. I've not been to the store or bought anything GW since. Still painting the back-log of what I own though and will still be reading Black Library books.

I'm a bigger part of the problem than I initially said.

I've purchased quite a bit from Forge World and Black Library in lieu of "regular" Games Workshop items.

 cincydooley wrote:
I'm a bigger part of the problem than I initially said.

I've purchased quite a bit from Forge World and Black Library in lieu of "regular" Games Workshop items.

I do wonder how much of GW's total profits come from FW these days. It seems a lot of veteran players, who either enjoy or dislike the current GW, seem happy to invest in FW products (not that I blame them, a lot of what FW is putting out these days is steller IMO).

Unhappy people make the most noise. In business there´s a saying that one unhappy customer will spread his experience ten times more than a happy customer.

In short, for every person saying they quit playing because of 7th ed, they don´t like GW, blah blah blah there will be many more people who like playing and are fine with GW´s games.

The people who are fine with things just don´t make threads about it, the unhappy do.

 RunicFIN wrote:
Unhappy people make the most noise. In business there´s a saying that one unhappy customer will spread his experience ten times more than a happy customer.

In short, for every person saying they quit playing because of 7th ed, they don´t like GW, blah blah blah there will be many more people who like playing and are fine with GW´s games.

The people who are fine with things just don´t make threads about it, the unhappy do.

Forums for other games are filled with happy people that love talking about the game they're passionate about. When I played 40k I loved talking about the all things I thought were awesome.
Right now, it's the amount of people complaining that shows there's a large problem. Coupled with GW's declining revenue shows a loss of customers.
Something's going on and I don't have all the answers, but if GW choose to ignore this, their future won't be very good.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 RunicFIN wrote:
Unhappy people make the most noise. In business there´s a saying that one unhappy customer will spread his experience ten times more than a happy customer.

In short, for every person saying they quit playing because of 7th ed, they don´t like GW, blah blah blah there will be many more people who like playing and are fine with GW´s games.

The people who are fine with things just don´t make threads about it, the unhappy do.

Forums for other games are filled with happy people that love talking about the game they're passionate about. When I played 40k I loved talking about the all things I thought were awesome.
Right now, it's the amount of people complaining that shows there's a large problem. Coupled with GW's declining revenue shows a loss of customers.
Something's going on and I don't have all the answers, but if GW choose to ignore this, their future won't be very good.

Cant discount moderation

Sometimes modzies are a thing.

That and extremely like minded people congregating together in a selective manner.

Personally, I haven't bought any GW miniatures in about 18 months. In that time, the only GW product I purchased was the new Dwarf Army Book. I fully plan on finishing up a new Dwarf Army, but all the minis will be either AoW or Metal Beards.

While the newest edition of 40K hasn't really inspired me to start playing again, I'm willing to give the new DR codex a chance to see if it can regain my interest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RunicFIN wrote:
Unhappy people make the most noise. In business there´s a saying that one unhappy customer will spread his experience ten times more than a happy customer.

In short, for every person saying they quit playing because of 7th ed, they don´t like GW, blah blah blah there will be many more people who like playing and are fine with GW´s games.

The people who are fine with things just don´t make threads about it, the unhappy do.

And GW's annual reports speak for themselves.