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Battle boxes are primarily for learning the game.

But they are also pretty cheap. So even if you only use half the models you are usually coming out ahead. And in the two player box you also get a rulebook.

Yup. Battle boxes are around 50% off full retail of the contents.

Is the two player battle box a good way to start?

Yes, if you take the extra effort to convert the Cinerators into Bastions.

I thought all units were viable... But anyway, is there a guide on how to do the conversion and a place to get the stat cards?

Not all things are viable, but its pretty darn close.

As for how, just swap the shield and sword for a halberd of some kind. Grey knight halberds are perfect.

As for cards, war room app. $8 for the entire faction deck.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
I thought all units were viable... But anyway, is there a guide on how to do the conversion and a place to get the stat cards?

All units are viable, but some have more uses than others and work in a wider variety of lists. Some require more work.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
Is the two player battle box a good way to start?

I think so. You get two decent armies and a rulebook. Get a friend to play with you and the two armies are evenly balanced. You may not use all the models forever, but I've never really seen anyone build a last that way as a newbie. Even most veterans are constantly adding models to their collection.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
Is the two player battle box a good way to start?

It's a valid approach. To be fair it's Great value for what you get. Personally however, I'd recommend going the other route, and getting the battle box and main rulebook. The one in the two-player box is just the rules. For me, missing out on the great fluff and back stories of the factions of the iron kingdoms is why I personally wouldn't go that route.

I think it's as important to be able to 'live in' the world as much as it is to 'play in' the world.

It's just me and my brother want to start and we like Khador... The battle box has Khador and 2 forces so a good start.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So are there counters and templates in the starter box because I didn't see them in the description...

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
So are there counters and templates in the starter box because I didn't see them in the description...

I think there are dice.

You can make your own templates if you want. I think you can print them online and cut them out for starters. and for counters you can use anything. I use glass beads. But you could use bits of paper, dice, etc. Pretty much anything as long as you know what it represents.

I'd also suggest some cheap plastic sleeves for your cards (the baseball card ones work great) and a dry erase marker. You can use them to keep track of damage and effects as well.

And it is never a bad idea to keep a note pad and pencil around.

As you play more these things can all get more complicated. Or you can just buy the PP stuff.

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
I thought all units were viable... But anyway, is there a guide on how to do the conversion and a place to get the stat cards?

This is just a case where the two units are so similar in function that they cannot help but be compared and currently, the bastions are just hands down better than cinerators. They have a bigger threat range, are harder to kill and have a solo that buffs their survivability more. Cinerators are really holding out for some love from something because as it stands, they just don't compare.

PLARZOID! SAVE US!!!

http://plarzoid.com/2012/07/how-to-tuesday-convert-cinerators-into-bastions/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If only I had known.... I might have stuck with Menoth.

 Surtur wrote:

 Waaagh 18 wrote:
I thought all units were viable... But anyway, is there a guide on how to do the conversion and a place to get the stat cards?

This is just a case where the two units are so similar in function that they cannot help but be compared and currently, the bastions are just hands down better than cinerators. They have a bigger threat range, are harder to kill and have a solo that buffs their survivability more. Cinerators are really holding out for some love from something because as it stands, they just don't compare.

A UA that gives defensive line/shield wall and rapid strike would completely fix them.

A much easier way to convert is to go on hoard of bits, buy bastion arms and glue them in. Now I have to figure out how to rip all my cinerator arms out without messing anything up. In regards to crusader and repenter, if they're so good, why doesn't anyone use them in major tournament lists? Those are the best players using the best lists. This is a listing of model usage in Masters/WMW Qualifier/National/WTC/Iron Gauntlet (Season 2) tournament play in SR2014, limited to players finishing in the Top-16 (all WTC lists will be represented). The data is comprised of 262 Protectorate of Menoth lists, played by 103 tournament entrants (67 unique players). Here we go, with the number of lists in which the model/unit appeared, followed by it's respective percentage:
5. Vanquisher - 51 - (19.47%)
7. Repenter - 17 - (6.49%)
12. Crusader - 1 - (0.38%)

Our colossal is widely regarded as possibly the worst in the game, yet still made it into more lists than any of the jacks in the starter box. By comparison, the Reckoner was in 173 lists, which is over 2/3 of them. If crusader is so good, why did only 1 of the top 67 menoth players in the world use him in a tournament? Also, out of 262 lists, cinerators were not in a single list. This is a pretty good indicator of how bad they are.

Wait, what?

Our Colossal is most definitely NOT the worst in the game. Its nothing special, buts its hardly the worst. A free point of focus could never be bad.

Its leagues better than the Kraken, which is still not a bad model. And it solidly beats all the Gargantuans except for the Mammoth.

You'll need to cite the claim that the Judicator is "widely regarded" as the worst Colossal. Because I'm seeing nothing even close to that.

Also, model usage is not a good yardstick for whats good and whats bad. Thats just what people in the tournament scene are using right now at that moment. Just because one guy made Assault Kommandos work at a tournament last year doesn't mean that they're actually a good unit. it just means in one particular type of list they work well.

I don't think the Judicator is bad at all
I think it is a very very good Jack

The problem is that Menoth has so so so very many awesome Jacks... that it quickly becomes ... What's the point?

Its like
Why spend 18pts on a Judicator when I can spend 16 on any combination of Vanquisher and Reckoner

Toofast wrote:
A much easier way to convert is to go on hoard of bits, buy bastion arms and glue them in. Now I have to figure out how to rip all my cinerator arms out without messing anything up. In regards to crusader and repenter, if they're so good, why doesn't anyone use them in major tournament lists? Those are the best players using the best lists. This is a listing of model usage in Masters/WMW Qualifier/National/WTC/Iron Gauntlet (Season 2) tournament play in SR2014, limited to players finishing in the Top-16 (all WTC lists will be represented). The data is comprised of 262 Protectorate of Menoth lists, played by 103 tournament entrants (67 unique players). Here we go, with the number of lists in which the model/unit appeared, followed by it's respective percentage:
5. Vanquisher - 51 - (19.47%)
7. Repenter - 17 - (6.49%)
12. Crusader - 1 - (0.38%)

Our colossal is widely regarded as possibly the worst in the game, yet still made it into more lists than any of the jacks in the starter box. By comparison, the Reckoner was in 173 lists, which is over 2/3 of them. If crusader is so good, why did only 1 of the top 67 menoth players in the world use him in a tournament? Also, out of 262 lists, cinerators were not in a single list. This is a pretty good indicator of how bad they are.

Nothing personal, but play more, read less.

You can't really boil this game down into a nutshell of numbers like that. Yes, the numbers help somewhat, but until you play and find out what really works for you then all the numbers mean nothing. Also, player skill and experience are much more important than any model.

The starter boxes are to learn the game. They do that very well for a pretty cheap price. You are better off spending $50 (though you should be paying around $30 or so) for a starter box and finding out you like the game than spending $50+ for one of the "top end" models or units and then discovering the opposite. If you use even half the models long term you are coming out ahead. And the two player boxes can be found for about $60 so you get even more models and a book for the same price as two single starters. If you really don't like the models then don't paint them and you can usually resell or trade them fairly easily.

And frankly, even if you don't like the models it is a great set to get your friends into the game by giving them something to play with. And some people like to collect various models for painting, conversion, hobbying, etc.

 Grey Templar wrote:


Its leagues better than the Kraken, which is still not a bad model.

Its leagues better than the Kraken

better than the Kraken

Well sir, it's clear we'll never see eye to eye on this.

Pistols at sunrise work for you?

(In all seriousness, the Judicator is seriously mean if you want to throw fire all around. Or play Feora.)

To the OP I have been playing Khador for almost a year now and I have found at least for me the Man-o-War Demo Corps has done great as a second wave. In my last game they almost took out a Stormwall in one turn. if my last guy in the squad had made his charge I might have been able to do it. There is not much more that I can add that has not already been said, but its a fun game and there is next to arguing over rules in my area and you get more games in.

 Mordekiem wrote:

Toofast wrote:
...The data is comprised of 262 Protectorate of Menoth lists, played by 103 tournament entrants (67 unique players). Here we go, with the number of lists in which the model/unit appeared, followed by it's respective percentage:
5. Vanquisher - 51 - (19.47%)
7. Repenter - 17 - (6.49%)
12. Crusader - 1 - (0.38%)

Our colossal is widely regarded as possibly the worst in the game, yet still made it into more lists than any of the jacks in the starter box. By comparison, the Reckoner was in 173 lists, which is over 2/3 of them. If crusader is so good, why did only 1 of the top 67 menoth players in the world use him in a tournament? Also, out of 262 lists, cinerators were not in a single list. This is a pretty good indicator of how bad they are.

Nothing personal, but play more, read less.

You can't really boil this game down into a nutshell of numbers like that. Yes, the numbers help somewhat, but until you play and find out what really works for you then all the numbers mean nothing. Also, player skill and experience are much more important than any model.

Word. Trencher spam in 2015! I think the reason 1/67 of the top Menoth players used the Crusader because it works for them and/or it was underestimated by their opponent. If someone tells you "X sucks", figure out how it can and beat them to death with it. Cinerators =/= DE Wyches.