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Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






Herzlos wrote:
The Division Of Joy wrote:
but as much as 'experts' on here can shout, there is some business expertise looking at these things, and they know more about the way to run things than someone that vents on here.


These are the experts that don't do research and are responsible for a company in serious decline? It's unwise to assume that just because someone is getting paid to make decisions, that they actually know what they are doing. Especially when all of the evidence points the other way. What's their long term game plan? Wait for the internet to die off and their competition to just go away like Pokemon* did?


But they have their principles. And guys named "Peter" who stick to them.


Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

"End of times for GW"
No, nice decline though.
Overall revenue is down and standard methods for increasing market-share are not being pursued as their strategy according to their financial report.
They are still seeking internal cost savings to show a profit, this can only go so-far.
At the absolute worst case, them or their IP would be bought before they ever go bankrupt.

"End of tabletop war gaming"
The day people get sick of models and/or board games is the only time I see that happening.
If we all are firmly glued to our tablets and cannot be bothered to interact with the physical world the statement would then have merit.
GW is not the entirety of tabletop war gaming no matter how much they want you to think so.

I like GW fluff and some models are quite nice, I have a big collection and can get reasonable games-in with my friends.
I find more than ever though, we are playing many other games and having a ton of fun.
I hope GW steps up their game before their fans leave them behind for something more shiny...

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in gb
Painting Within the Lines




 MWHistorian wrote:
The Division Of Joy wrote:
When other companies (apart from Wyrd) start producing decent quality miniatures I'll be tempted to say enough is enough with GW, but the likes of Mantic have a long way to go. Prodos are getting there, but still a way off.

And before I'm shot down, I play Dreadball, Deadzone and have backed the Mantic Dungeoncrawler. I just can see the standard isn't there.

As for the 'single man stores are failing' and the 'the stores are pointless' arguements, I would bet that the demographic they are going for (the younger audience, who are dragging mum and dad in) it's pretty good. And they are more new-friendly than most FLGS, which cater for the more established fan.

When the GW stores stop bringing in new players, I'll be the first to say it's time for a rethink. You can point out a drop in profits, but as much as 'experts' on here can shout, there is some business expertise looking at these things, and they know more about the way to run things than someone that vents on here.

I'd say that Infinity's minis are far and away a higher quality than GW's.
I'd also say that PP's metals are on par, but sadly, not their plastic, yet. They are getting better though.
Malifaux's plastics are almost exceptional. Give them a try.


I play Malifaux, and being a Cryx player I have a tonne of metal PP. The metal isn't anywhere as good at the latest plastic GW stuff, and the plastic is about the same. Good models yes, the Bane Thralls being a good plastic release for example, but not GW quality IMHO.

Inifinity is on a par with 2nd Ed 40K, nothing better. I've seen the occasional better sculpt, but nothing at the level of what is being pushed out on a consistant basis at Nottingham.

Malifaux is outstanding, very beginner unfriendly (another thing that GW beats others at) but astonishing. As a gremlin player, fiddly construction has made my brain hurt on a number of occasions.

Like I said, when Wyrd can produce that level for a high model count game, I'll change my opinion. Same for Mantic,Prodos or PP
   
Made in fi
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Finland

Asfar as I´m concerned the "end times" of GW and/or tabletop wargaming only exist in some peoples heads but not in reality.

I´m also pretty sure that 10 years from now the situation regarding all manufacturers will have changed quite a bit. A lot of games have the "ooh new and shiny" -aura on them for many players ( new compared to GW´s games anyway ) and after 10 years they will have lost that to most. Warmachine, Infinity and the like will just be old tabletop wargames in the year 2024, for example.

It will be interesting to see what Privateer Press for example will come up with to keep things interesting if you think about the next 10 years. Epic epic epic epic epic Warcasters won´t cut it, and neither will 20 more warbeasts called Geraph/Leraph/Zeraph/Meraph. I´m pretty sure some manufacturers will have grown quite a bit and some ( smaller ones ) will have fallen, so yeah. will be interesting to see.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/10/28 16:17:55


   
Made in us
Wraith






The Division Of Joy wrote:


Inifinity is on a par with 2nd Ed 40K, nothing better.


This is objectively and entirely incorrect. It very nearly invalidates everything you have said.

Spoiler:


Versus

Spoiler:


Edit: Dakkadakka is crap today, Google Tyranids Second Edition. Choose a photo. Proceed to cringe. Seriously, I tried to link like eight photos, all failing. Try here works now, weird issue.

The modern Infinity release are blowing away modern GW releases in aesthetic and artistic capabilities at a smaller scale in a more expensive material at cheaper cost to the player per model (character model comparison). Swing and miss.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/10/28 17:45:36


Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb

 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 RunicFIN wrote:
[...]

It will be interesting to see what Privateer Press for example will come up with to keep things interesting if you think about the next 10 years. Epic epic epic epic epic Warcasters won´t cut it, and neither will 20 more warbeasts called Geraph/Leraph/Zeraph/Meraph. I´m pretty sure some manufacturers will have grown quite a bit and some ( smaller ones ) will have fallen, so yeah. will be interesting to see.


I'd like to see some company other than GW pick up a licence to a film or TV franchise such as Game Thrones and produce a proper 28mm miniature wargame for it. It worked very well for GW with the Lord of the Rings SBG*, at least whilst the films were popular and prominent with the general public and before the bubble burst.

There are a lot of franchises I'd love to see as a table top miniature wargame. Halo, Game of Thrones, Mass Effect, Bioshock...

I don't really have faith anymore in GW's ability to produce an effective licenced tie-in game on par with the SBG. But Privateer Press, Warlord Games or one of the other up and coming big players and leading rivals to GW may one day have the resources to do it.

* Incidentally, the SBG is also the game that introduced me to miniature wargaming. I would never have heard of Gamesworkshop were it not for the LOTR films and the SBG, and I would not have gone on to pick up Warhammer 40K as a second game. Also, ironically, I've more or less abandoned 40K and not played for 2 years (because I now dislike the cluster feth it became with 6th and 7th Ed) in favour of going back to the LOTR SBG which I still enjoy.

   
Made in br
Fresh-Faced New User




 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 RunicFIN wrote:
[...]

It will be interesting to see what Privateer Press for example will come up with to keep things interesting if you think about the next 10 years. Epic epic epic epic epic Warcasters won´t cut it, and neither will 20 more warbeasts called Geraph/Leraph/Zeraph/Meraph. I´m pretty sure some manufacturers will have grown quite a bit and some ( smaller ones ) will have fallen, so yeah. will be interesting to see.


I'd like to see some company other than GW pick up a licence to a film or TV franchise such as Game Thrones and produce a proper 28mm miniature wargame for it. It worked very well for GW with the Lord of the Rings SBG*, at least whilst the films were popular and prominent with the general public and before the bubble burst.

There are a lot of franchises I'd love to see as a table top miniature wargame. Halo, Game of Thrones, Mass Effect, Bioshock...

I don't really have faith anymore in GW's ability to produce an effective licenced tie-in game on par with the SBG. But Privateer Press, Warlord Games or one of the other up and coming big players and leading rivals to GW may one day have the resources to do it.

* Incidentally, the SBG is also the game that introduced me to miniature wargaming. I would never have heard of Gamesworkshop were it not for the LOTR films and the SBG, and I would not have gone on to pick up Warhammer 40K as a second game. Also, ironically, I've more or less abandoned 40K and not played for 2 years (because I now dislike the cluster feth it became with 6th and 7th Ed) in favour of going back to the LOTR SBG which I still enjoy.



The only game I'm considering from GW right now is The Hobbit. Saddly (or not), I don't have any Fantasy or 40K army to hold me by memories of better days. Is it worth it to try and collect the LotR/Hobbit line?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/28 17:49:09


 
   
Made in us
Wraith






Keraun0s wrote:


The only game I'm considering from GW right now is The Hobbit. Saddly (or not), I don't have any Fantasy or 40K army to hold me by memories of better days. Is it worth it to try and collect the LotR/Hobbit line?


Do you think Fantasy and 40k models are overpriced? Because the Hobbit is entirely more dollar per model cost and great deal is in Finecast.

Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb

 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Keraun0s wrote:
 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 RunicFIN wrote:
[...]

It will be interesting to see what Privateer Press for example will come up with to keep things interesting if you think about the next 10 years. Epic epic epic epic epic Warcasters won´t cut it, and neither will 20 more warbeasts called Geraph/Leraph/Zeraph/Meraph. I´m pretty sure some manufacturers will have grown quite a bit and some ( smaller ones ) will have fallen, so yeah. will be interesting to see.


I'd like to see some company other than GW pick up a licence to a film or TV franchise such as Game Thrones and produce a proper 28mm miniature wargame for it. It worked very well for GW with the Lord of the Rings SBG*, at least whilst the films were popular and prominent with the general public and before the bubble burst.

There are a lot of franchises I'd love to see as a table top miniature wargame. Halo, Game of Thrones, Mass Effect, Bioshock...

I don't really have faith anymore in GW's ability to produce an effective licenced tie-in game on par with the SBG. But Privateer Press, Warlord Games or one of the other up and coming big players and leading rivals to GW may one day have the resources to do it.

* Incidentally, the SBG is also the game that introduced me to miniature wargaming. I would never have heard of Gamesworkshop were it not for the LOTR films and the SBG, and I would not have gone on to pick up Warhammer 40K as a second game. Also, ironically, I've more or less abandoned 40K and not played for 2 years (because I now dislike the cluster feth it became with 6th and 7th Ed) in favour of going back to the LOTR SBG which I still enjoy.



The only game I'm considering from GW right now is The Hobbit. Saddly (or not), I don't have any Fantasy or 40K army to hold me by memories of better days. Is it worth it to try and collect the LotR/Hobbit line?


Yes. Very good discounts can be found on ebay, especially for the older (non-limited edition) models. And if you learn to paint strip then the detail is not obscured by thick paint. Its actually quite easy though time consuming and messy - I soak my plastic or metal minis in liquid dettol for 24+ hours, then scrub with a firm bristled toothbrush and use a round pointed file to scrape out the recesses. Also lots of retailers give good discounts on LOTR/Hobbit product (I use Element Games).

I've gone on ebay binges over the last year and got over £300 worth of minis for less than £150.

The biggest problem is finding opponents to play with, if you're a gamer that is. Painters and collectors will have no such problem. Check out the forums and facebook groups to find opponents in your area.

Great British Hobbit League
https://www.facebook.com/groups/472128942815892/?fref=ts

One Ring
http://one-ring.co.uk/index.php?sid=55e3c12ebeb7104e867af1756fbd3e85

The Last Alliance.
http://www.thelastalliance.com/

The best solution if you lack opponents, is to collect multiple armies so you can give a demo game to other players and/or friends. Even if you have to lend them one of your own armies every time its better than having absolutely no one to play with. I'm collecting armies in opposing pairs, so I can lend armies to my opponent if need be.

Arnor vs Angmar.
Gondor vs Mordor.
Mirkwood Elves & Eagles vs Orcs.
etc
   
Made in fi
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine






Finland

 TheKbob wrote:

The modern Infinity release are blowing away modern GW releases in aesthetic and artistic capabilities at a smaller scale in a more expensive material at cheaper cost to the player per model (character model comparison). Swing and miss.


While the Infi vs. 2ed comparison is obviously not true, this bit is purely subjective. There´s quite a lot of crappy models in Infinity aswell.

   
Made in br
Fresh-Faced New User




 TheKbob wrote:
Keraun0s wrote:


The only game I'm considering from GW right now is The Hobbit. Saddly (or not), I don't have any Fantasy or 40K army to hold me by memories of better days. Is it worth it to try and collect the LotR/Hobbit line?


Do you think Fantasy and 40k models are overpriced? Because the Hobbit is entirely more dollar per model cost and great deal is in Finecast.


Is not that i find it cheap. But i need much less of it to enjoy a full game. Also, would like to have te Fellowship and Thorin's Company. Also, the rules don't seem to catch as much heat as 40k or fantasy.

Well, at the end, maybe is not even worth it.
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Infinity and 2nd edition 40k on the same model quality scale

I've not had a laugh this intense and lasting for ... the release of 2nd edition of 40k :x
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 TheKbob wrote:
Keraun0s wrote:


The only game I'm considering from GW right now is The Hobbit. Saddly (or not), I don't have any Fantasy or 40K army to hold me by memories of better days. Is it worth it to try and collect the LotR/Hobbit line?


Do you think Fantasy and 40k models are overpriced? Because the Hobbit is entirely more dollar per model cost and great deal is in Finecast.


No.

At worst, The Hobbit range is on par with 40K for cost per model for the plastic boxes. The older LOTR plastic boxes are cheaper than the Hobbit even after years of price raises and the model count of plastic kits being halved, partly because New Line charged a higher licence fee for The Hobbit.

Man sized infantry heroes tend to cost between £8 to £15. 40K heroes to cost between £12 to £18 (the most expensive being the latest PLASTIC heroes). LOTR/Hobbit often come in foot & mounted pairs, or in groups of heroes (Fellowship etc), in which case they can cost from £6 to about £12 each for man sized Finecast models.

And you're also ignoring the fact that the SBG is a SKIRMISH GAME. This is effectively the "40K vs Infinity" argument, or the "40K vs War Machine".

Fewer models are required for a proper game (typically 500 - 700pts a big chunk of which is taken up by "HQ" heroes, with 50 - 60 models being considered a horde army). Compare that to 40K or Fantasy, where the norm is (or seems to be) 2000 - 3000pt games, with over a hundred models per side, or lots of very big models. The SBG has never exceeded the 2 Warhammer games in cost, especially startup costs for new players.



And for the record, as much as I like the SBG, I still think that it is over priced, just as I think Warhammer is overpriced.







Automatically Appended Next Post:
Keraun0s wrote:
 TheKbob wrote:
Keraun0s wrote:


The only game I'm considering from GW right now is The Hobbit. Saddly (or not), I don't have any Fantasy or 40K army to hold me by memories of better days. Is it worth it to try and collect the LotR/Hobbit line?


Do you think Fantasy and 40k models are overpriced? Because the Hobbit is entirely more dollar per model cost and great deal is in Finecast.


Is not that i find it cheap. But i need much less of it to enjoy a full game. Also, would like to have te Fellowship and Thorin's Company. Also, the rules don't seem to catch as much heat as 40k or fantasy.

Well, at the end, maybe is not even worth it.


If you are a fan of the Hobbit and/or the Lord of the Rings, then it is worth it for that reason alone. The SBG range is by far the best miniature representation and game of Tolkien's work thats ever been done. If you're not a fan of the films or books, then perhaps not. Its subjective.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/10/28 18:21:06


 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

The LOTR/WOTR/HObbit rules are actually pretty tight and well written.

Comparatively anyway..

best of my knowledge there's no rules or game as such but

http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/

have the a anyway .. license for GoT minis.


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





 reds8n wrote:
The LOTR/WOTR/HObbit rules are actually pretty tight and well written.

Comparatively anyway..

best of my knowledge there's no rules or game as such but

http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/

have the a anyway .. license for GoT minis.



Aye I know about them and they're excellent models, but they're more painters'/collectors' models than wargaming models no? And they don't have a companion wargame for the range. And they're like 32mm or something, not 28mm. There are multiple licences for different model scales for the LOTR, Mithril Miniatures has 32mm or w.e. Gw has 28mm (and the 15mm or whatever the old Battle of the Five Armies specialist game was). Theres also Thomorillion. Theres nothing stopping mutliple licences for Game of Thrones.

Also, the LOTR and Hobbit rules are well written buuuuuuuut... the WOTR.... not so much. It needs a 2nd Ed to address some of the serious issues (OP magic for instance) so the game can reach its full potential.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/28 18:35:13


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 RunicFIN wrote:
 TheKbob wrote:

The modern Infinity release are blowing away modern GW releases in aesthetic and artistic capabilities at a smaller scale in a more expensive material at cheaper cost to the player per model (character model comparison). Swing and miss.


While the Infi vs. 2ed comparison is obviously not true, this bit is purely subjective. There´s quite a lot of crappy models in Infinity aswell.


Just curious runic, what would you consider to be the 'crappy models' in infinity? No bait, genuine question.

With the caveat of some of the original starter sets are a bit on the dodgy side (- looking at you pan-o, in particular) I would personally rate cb's stuff as some of the best in the industry. It's rare that there isn't a model I don't want. Even with those starters, they're being redone and re released.

greatest band in the universe: machine supremacy

"Punch your fist in the air and hold your Gameboy aloft like the warrior you are" 
   
Made in es
Dakka Veteran






Deadnight wrote:
 RunicFIN wrote:
 TheKbob wrote:

The modern Infinity release are blowing away modern GW releases in aesthetic and artistic capabilities at a smaller scale in a more expensive material at cheaper cost to the player per model (character model comparison). Swing and miss.


While the Infi vs. 2ed comparison is obviously not true, this bit is purely subjective. There´s quite a lot of crappy models in Infinity aswell.


Just curious runic, what would you consider to be the 'crappy models' in infinity? No bait, genuine question.

With the caveat of some of the original starter sets are a bit on the dodgy side (- looking at you pan-o, in particular) I would personally rate cb's stuff as some of the best in the industry. It's rare that there isn't a model I don't want. Even with those starters, they're being redone and re released.


I bet 3.5 €uros (I don't have too much spare cash, being a student is a pain) that he comes back with an Exrah picture
   
Made in us
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Illinois

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
 reds8n wrote:
The LOTR/WOTR/HObbit rules are actually pretty tight and well written.

Comparatively anyway..

best of my knowledge there's no rules or game as such but

http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/

have the a anyway .. license for GoT minis.



Aye I know about them and they're excellent models, but they're more painters'/collectors' models than wargaming models no? And they don't have a companion wargame for the range. And they're like 32mm or something, not 28mm. There are multiple licences for different model scales for the LOTR, Mithril Miniatures has 32mm or w.e. Gw has 28mm (and the 15mm or whatever the old Battle of the Five Armies specialist game was). Theres also Thomorillion. Theres nothing stopping mutliple licences for Game of Thrones.

Also, the LOTR and Hobbit rules are well written buuuuuuuut... the WOTR.... not so much. It needs a 2nd Ed to address some of the serious issues (OP magic for instance) so the game can reach its full potential.


WOTR will never be updated. By this time next year we will no longer see hobbit in gw's line. The curent range for LOTR gw produces is a 25mm scale. That is one of the major issues for the LOTR line is that the minitures could be significantly better if new line would have allowed them to make them in a 28mm scale as GW proposed. New line didnt want the chance that warhammer minis got intermingled with LOTR ones. I honestly think that the LOTR rule set is VERY tight and very simple/beginner friendly. If gw had been given free reign to do the minis however they saw fit, i think we could have seen something well beyond what is, imo, a great range already.

RoperPG wrote:
Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon?
 
   
Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

Keraun0s wrote:
l
How long can Mantic, Wyrd, Corvus Belli, Warlord Games and many other smaller companies keep their lines going? How long for them to have to resort to the GW way to keep some profit? I would like to know if other game giants have fallen, and how they fell.


It's a mistake to think that companies are going to go the "GW way" as far as emmulation. However, there are alot of elements to GW's success that other companies have picked up on to rise in their niches.
-PP took the GW style (and CCG style) wargames tournament model and went so far as to build a game around it. They continue to have a very successful tournament scene long after GW has dropped theirs.
-Games like FoW and Bolt Action recognized the value in high-production-value publication books , boxed sets and plastic kits and really brought historical gaming to a more prominent place in FLGS's and among gamers that normally would have been dominated by Fantasy and Sci-Fi kits.
-Many other companies have followed the GW model of providing extremely high quality miniatures at a premium price.
-Companies like Mantic (and many before it) Have tried to build "Big Battle" games, to varying degrees of success.

The difference is that most of these companies have not also tried to run a retail chain at the same time. It's this element that is unlikely to be emulated by other companies and that will keep them less vulnerable to the wider retail are real-estate markets. GW depends on their stores for new customers, but to keep these stores going, GW has had to minimize staff and maximize prices, so it''s put them in a tough spot where they are still making more $ than any other minis company, but are trapped in a very specific sales model.

Keraun0s wrote:
l
I would like to know if other game giants have fallen, and how they fell.


Not too many were the size of GW, but there are alot of very large companies that have bit the dust. Here's a few for you.

-TSR. Maker of D&D was a very large and successful company and bigger than GW for a time, but didn't have enough cash reserves to pay for a massive return of Novels and games from a Publisher. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSR_(company) Shortly after it was bought by Wizards.

-Grenadier minaitures was a huge producer of minis. As well as very big Future Wars and Fantasy Warriors (very similar to Warhammer in size and concept)and other fantasy and historical lines of their own, they also produced minis for Shadowrun, D&D and others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenadier_Models_Inc.
Their fall isn't entirely clear, but it seems to be a combination of loosing many of their lucrative licensed lines and the "lead scare" of the early 90's.

Ral Partha: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ral_Partha_Enterprises
Was one of the biggest mini producers for over 20 years. They seem to have run into trouble by focusing too much on licensed lines at the expense of their own lines. They Produced lots of D&D models, all the Battletech line and most of the Shadowrun mins. Eventually they were bought by one of the companies they produced for "FASA", which it'self was bought by WizKids in 2000.

-Heartbreaker Hobbies and Games was, IIRC, the original maker of the "Mutant Chronicles" RPG which birthed the "Warzone" game in the 90's. Also the Fantasy game "Chronopia". The games quickly expanded and at it's height had many factions and a range of miniatures that was probably second only to GW. They merged with "Target Games" in the 90's and in some places were really going after GW. I don't know the details, but Target went into bankruptcy. A new company "Excellsior" tried to revive Warzone, but failed and the game was gone for over a decade before being revived last year under license to a new company.

-FASA producer of Battletech, Earthdawn and Shadowrun, VOR, etc went inactive (never bankrupted) after 20 years because it's creators decided to simply get out while they were ahead and thought the market was going downhill. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FASA
They sold the BT and Shadowrun to one of the founder's new companies' wizkids" that has kept some of their IP alive.

-Another big one was I-Kore. I think some staff from Target and sculptors were in involved in this company. It was another company with two big games, Void (sci-fi) and Celtos (fantasy) . Like Target, the company grew quickly and it's games had many factions and a very large collection of miniatures. How it folded is a bit clearer. It appears to be a combination of things
-Manufacturing errors led to a missed Christmas season
-One employee was running an unauthorized discount dealer of Ikore products.
-Some shady and poorly handled accounting.
You can read the whole thing here.
http://theminiaturespage.com/news/?id=529779
A new Company was formed to take over the lines "Urban Mamoth" and the Void universe lives on in the "Urban War" series of games.

Interestingly the history of other games is also a pretty good indication that if GW folds another company will swoop in to take over to keep it going. Battletech, Shadowrun, Dungeons and Dragons, Warzone, Void/UrbanWar, etc. All these games still exist today in one form or another, even though none of them are produced by the same company that created them originally.

One other thing to note about companies going under is that often times the minis will live on separately even if the game dies or if new minis are released to replace the old ones. This is especially the case when they are metal minis that can easily be produced by small manufacturers.
Many of these lines will never get any new minis or will get updated only occasionally, but if the figures are good enough, folks will continue to buy them for many years to come.
-Urban War got new minis, so the Void minis were sold to "Scotia Grendel" where they can still be bought today.
-Celtos minis are still being produced by Brigade games
-Grenadier Fantasy warriors and Future Warriors are still being made by EM4 and Merliton
-IIRC, though the molds weren't transferred, Prince August bought the huge amount of old stock from Warzone and Chronopia and has been selling it off for over a decade!
-Ral Partha models are made by Iron Wind Metals in the USA and Ral Partha Europe.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 namiel wrote:
[That is one of the major issues for the LOTR line is that the minitures could be significantly better if new line would have allowed them to make them in a 28mm scale as GW proposed. New line didnt want the chance that warhammer minis got intermingled with LOTR ones. I honestly think that the LOTR rule set is VERY tight and very simple/beginner friendly. If gw had been given free reign to do the minis however they saw fit, i think we could have seen something well beyond what is, imo, a great range already.


Strongly disagree. the 25mm (closer to true 27mm, but whatever…) scale of LoTR is not really a limit to high quality sculpting. A good artist can do 25mm stuff that is every bit as good as 28. Tom Meir (Of Ral Partha Fame) is still producing 25mm minis under his "Thunderbolt Mountain" company that are as good or better than anything GW has done in 28mm . http://www.thunderboltmountain.com

The drawback of the size of LoTR, is a limit to the possible cross-use of the minis between LoTR and other games by GW and others. Incompatibility (real or percieved) is the real drawback to a slightly smaller scale, not quality limitations.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/10/28 19:49:24


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Norn Iron

 Eilif wrote:
Strongly disagree. the 25mm (closer to true 27mm, but whatever…) scale of LoTR is not really a limit to high quality sculpting. A good artist can do 25mm stuff that is every bit as good as 28. Tom Meir (Of Ral Partha Fame) is still producing 25mm minis under his "Thunderbolt Mountain" company that are as good or better than anything GW has done in 28mm . http://www.thunderboltmountain.com


People here should see some of his 15mm stuff at Khurasan Miniatures, too. I also saw photos of a 4mm Napoleon he sculpted once, for giggles, that would've blown your minds. Freakin' thing had buttons on the greatcoat.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/28 20:29:07


I'm sooo, sooo sorry.

Plog - Random sculpts and OW Helves 9/3/23 
   
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Nuremberg

Eilif: Shame about Celtos. The minis weren't the best, but I liked the setting a lot and the game looked fun enough. I have the rulebook at home, but I've never managed to play a game of it!

   
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Chicago

 Vermis wrote:
 Eilif wrote:
Strongly disagree. the 25mm (closer to true 27mm, but whatever…) scale of LoTR is not really a limit to high quality sculpting. A good artist can do 25mm stuff that is every bit as good as 28. Tom Meir (Of Ral Partha Fame) is still producing 25mm minis under his "Thunderbolt Mountain" company that are as good or better than anything GW has done in 28mm . http://www.thunderboltmountain.com


People here should see some of his 15mm stuff at Khurasan Miniatures, too. I also saw photos of a 4mm Napoleon he sculpted once, for giggles, that would've blown your minds. Freakin' thing had buttons on the greatcoat.


I'd love to see the 4mm stuff.

I'd seen the Khurasan 15mm sci-fi character figs but didn't know they were his work. They are all kinds of amazing, here's 3 of them:


Yes, that's a penny!


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Los Angeles

 Eilif wrote:

I'd love to see the 4mm stuff.

I'd seen the Khurasan 15mm sci-fi character figs but didn't know they were his work. They are all kinds of amazing, here's 3 of them:


Yes, that's a penny!






Dang. The painting and sculpting are astounding for miniatures of that scale!
   
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Chicago

 Da Boss wrote:
Eilif: Shame about Celtos. The minis weren't the best, but I liked the setting a lot and the game looked fun enough. I have the rulebook at home, but I've never managed to play a game of it!


I thought the minis were quite good, but they are a different style than GW. If you change you're mind about the figs, the rules and minis are still in production here, with a few additional units having been produced.
http://www.brigademodels.co.uk/Celtos/index.html

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Fresh-Faced New User




People have always complained about Games Workshop, be it about their prices, their business model, or even just give support to gamers by stating that they facilitate the "hobby" not the game. I have played 40k on and off since 2nd edition and back then people complained about the same stuff they do today.

They complained with the lead was changed to what was called 'White Lead', they complained when they no longer used lead. I just wish that back then we had the models and the detail we do today.

I complained yesterday when I was struggling to put the Stormwolf together, and just for the hell of it I will complain that the Stormwolf model cannot easily be changed into a Stormfang and that even the weapon combinations encourage you to buy multiple models.

I play 40k and I purchase the models because I like Space Wolves. I like their history, I like the rivalries (Warrior Vs Wizard, Lion Vs Wolf). I hate painting them and putting them together, I don't get to play often and when I do I am not very good, but I don't mind because it is just a game and I would just find something else equally unimportant to spend my money on.
   
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United States

 MWHistorian wrote:
To answer one of the OP's questions, look at TSR and how they fell. They were freaking D&D, yet they fell and fell hard. It's an interesting bit of history with a lot of lessons to be learned.


They were also had some really bad management. Quite like GW currently has, the people at the top did not listen to what the customers were wanting.


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 TheKbob wrote:
The Division Of Joy wrote:


Inifinity is on a par with 2nd Ed 40K, nothing better.


This is objectively and entirely incorrect. It very nearly invalidates everything you have said.

Spoiler:


Versus

Spoiler:


Edit: Dakkadakka is crap today, Google Tyranids Second Edition. Choose a photo. Proceed to cringe. Seriously, I tried to link like eight photos, all failing. Try here works now, weird issue.

The modern Infinity release are blowing away modern GW releases in aesthetic and artistic capabilities at a smaller scale in a more expensive material at cheaper cost to the player per model (character model comparison). Swing and miss.


I could not agree more , that statement is very inaccurate

http://www.miniwargaming.com/images/previews/infinity/DogWarriors1.jpg

Far as I can tell with 99% of all infinitys current miniatures they are far superior to ANYTHING GW PRODUCES currently, they are supreme detailed miniatures, and also done in True Scale and not in a more and more outdated "Heroic Scale". I personally had to comment in agreement GW as far as I am concerned unlike what their motto says do not make the best miniatures in the world and this has been true for quite some time as far as I am concerned.

Yes some of infinities first minis were not the best sculpts ( they were decent in the time they came out) however their over all range, is worth so much more than GW's products and I would any day feel my money more well spent on just a few infinity miniatures compared to GW's plastic heroic scale kits. Also whyll quoting this we should add Infinity 's game is made at a sensible scale for the miniature scale, works well and is well balanced. I wont get into GW's games for to be honest I truly think their main two ( not their old games they dropped I think 40k epic was one of their best games) games are a joke to be harsh but honest.


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Norn Iron

 Eilif wrote:
I'd love to see the 4mm stuff.


The best I can find is an old announcement about procreate's debut on Coolminiornot (which provides a little context. It's the only instance I know of Tom straying from green stuff!) and a google images preview of a photo that's not on imageshack anymore. Still, it's good enough fir the mind-boggling, IMO. Search for 'littleguyvg4'.

I'm sooo, sooo sorry.

Plog - Random sculpts and OW Helves 9/3/23 
   
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Eye of Terror

 Talizvar wrote:
"End of times for GW"
No, nice decline though.
Overall revenue is down and standard methods for increasing market-share are not being pursued as their strategy according to their financial report.
They are still seeking internal cost savings to show a profit, this can only go so-far.
At the absolute worst case, them or their IP would be bought before they ever go bankrupt.

"End of tabletop war gaming"
The day people get sick of models and/or board games is the only time I see that happening.
If we all are firmly glued to our tablets and cannot be bothered to interact with the physical world the statement would then have merit.
GW is not the entirety of tabletop war gaming no matter how much they want you to think so.

I like GW fluff and some models are quite nice, I have a big collection and can get reasonable games-in with my friends.
I find more than ever though, we are playing many other games and having a ton of fun.
I hope GW steps up their game before their fans leave them behind for something more shiny...


I think this all sums it up quite nicely.

A change in the leadership at GW will likely lead to improvement in these areas and more. Kirby just seems to be in over his head.


   
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I don't hear any GW death throes.. Just see a bunch of posts on Dakka.


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