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oh the crusade continues. Yes lets UNIONIZE the fans of a plastic toy game in protest!

...

I got no problem...zero...with 3D printers, and EBay purchases and any other way you can make the hobby more accessible.

I just dislike the CONSTANT attack on GW itself as if all the players of the world should unite and smite them for making a product and selling it. Good lawd.

The copmpany practically made the hobby possible and even if ya find a cheaper way to play the game...which again I endorse... Can we quit the hate mail part of it already?

I bought a bunch of stuff from GW during the great Specialist Games Rush (Looking at Ebay prices, that Dauntless Light Cruiser and SM Battlebarge appear to be some of the best investments I've ever made, amongst others), but aside from that, nothing, ever.

Canadian price gouging is something I can't abide; I know what we have tarriffs on driving up prices (and some of its bloody stupid, like books WE DON'T EVEN PRINT BOOKS WHY IS THERE A TARRIFF? WHARGARBLE), but plastic/resin/metal toy soldiers aren't one of them. I've never been dinged by customs on any order labelled as such below the standard free import threshold.

Therefore I buy from US distributors or Ebay for what few things my FLGS can't stock (The direct only shenanigans). Almost every Canadian retailers matches US prices for GW, otherwise they simply don't move product. I'm continuously amazed the sole GW store out here actually remains profitable; I genuinely like the guys who work there (yes, guyS, it's not a one-man op yet), but that's not worth an extra 20% or more, especially when I'm not really rewarding them, they don't get to directly benefit from that expense, the FLGS does. It helps keep his doors open and maintain his quality of life, and without his store I'd have a devil of a time finding games.

Loyalty, cost, ethics, convenience, and that the only way I can express displeasure with GW is to not do what they want financially, all ensure I don't buy things from them directly.

I started to think about buying warhammer 40k miniatures after i've started to earn some reasonable ammount of money (for our place). But than i looked at GW prices and difficulties with shipping and i hadn't found FLGS yet and i still had lots of necessery stuff to buy like a notebook, building materials for my flat...and just got a bunch of blackreach boyz, grots and IG CCS from e-bay. Than i've found FLGS and some local guyz willing to sell orkses - it was in the mid 6-th and there were 2 ork players willing to sell. 2 out of 2 total ork players in the local meta. So, i'm the only ork player that made it through 6-th here. Note, however, that one moved to FB orkses.

Anywayz, i've got a 1250-1500 army of GW miniatures that cost me like 2 times less than i'd pay to GW. Before shipping. So, count it 3 times less.

And the guyz running CSM and IG got everything from FLGS and recasts. I must say that stuff from russian recasts that i've seen is of really good quallity. It's not as customizable as GW boxes and some tiny details are not there but when a guy painted Dark Vengeance cultists and recast cultist they were undistinguishable from my perspective. And they cost 2 times cheaper and don't have shipping problems.

I'd have no hesitation to buy from GW if it was at least 30% cheaper. It'd still be more expensive than the local sources but it's not gona be so psychologically hard to spend my money to actually support the people creating the stuff i like. Just not when it has so many difficulties with shipping AND prices that are obviously much higher than they should be.

 insaniak wrote:

The moral of the story being that the harder a company makes it for a customer to buy their product, the less likely it is for a customer to buy their product.

agreed

Well, I generally buy from a discounter not from GW directly, neither online none from the GW store at HH.

Ordering online from GW means 23% vat and what ever the custom guys think if the stuff. If they class it as toy its +25% , but if they decide it is a collectible or it is FW , they may class it as that or worse as luxury item and then the sky is the limit it can be anything from 100 to 300%

As a Canadian I buy from GW almost exclusively. very very quick shipping. Wish there was a store that gave discounts, but the ones I see dont ship to canada, or bill you for shipping so its just easier to buy from GW itself.

 insaniak wrote:

kb305 wrote:
i dont even buy gw paint from gw anymore.

I gave up entirely on GW paint when they changed all of the names. Too hard to figure out what was what... So that was the final push I needed to just switch back to Coat D'Arms for everything.

Having tried so many different paints over the years It would be hard to limit myself to just one brand. army painter is my favorite.

the new citadel range does have some nice colors in there worth picking up. on the flip side, some others from the new range have been so terrible, ive either sold them or threw them out

 Jancoran wrote:
oh the crusade continues. Yes lets UNIONIZE the fans of a plastic toy game in protest!

...

I got no problem...zero...with 3D printers, and EBay purchases and any other way you can make the hobby more accessible.

I just dislike the CONSTANT attack on GW itself as if all the players of the world should unite and smite them for making a product and selling it. Good lawd.

The copmpany practically made the hobby possible and even if ya find a cheaper way to play the game...which again I endorse... Can we quit the hate mail part of it already?

I'm sorry?

GW "made the hobby"? Sorry, going to have to call bull**** on that one. Although none of the gaming companies have quite mastered the art of wallet molestation that GW has.

I was a gamer BEFORE GW existed in the retail store market. Games stores existed before the GW retail model existed. GAMERS built the "hobby", not some faceless corp entity.
GW would be nothing without the hobby - the larger overall toy soldier tabletop wargaming hobby that their games FIT into, not apart from. They got their start by LICENSING OTHER PROPERTIES for publishing in the UK and Europe. Things like D&D, Paranoia, Call of Cthulhu. THIS is what enabled them to expand into other areas.

For my region buying from GW webstore is actually the cheapest way to obtane licensed models. We ussualy buy in bulk for more then 100 pounds so we can save on shipping costs. Some good stores like Black Sphere just don't ship to Kazakhstan GW stuff and items form eBay tend to come realy late (3-4 weeks).

Don't refuse to buy direct, they just don't offer a good deal when its cheaper elsewhere or other models are better.

 chromedog wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
oh the crusade continues. Yes lets UNIONIZE the fans of a plastic toy game in protest!
...
I got no problem...zero...with 3D printers, and EBay purchases and any other way you can make the hobby more accessible.
I just dislike the CONSTANT attack on GW itself as if all the players of the world should unite and smite them for making a product and selling it. Good lawd.
The copmpany practically made the hobby possible and even if ya find a cheaper way to play the game...which again I endorse... Can we quit the hate mail part of it already?

I'm sorry?
GW "made the hobby"? Sorry, going to have to call bull**** on that one. Although none of the gaming companies have quite mastered the art of wallet molestation that GW has.
I was a gamer BEFORE GW existed in the retail store market. Games stores existed before the GW retail model existed. GAMERS built the "hobby", not some faceless corp entity.
GW would be nothing without the hobby - the larger overall toy soldier tabletop wargaming hobby that their games FIT into, not apart from. They got their start by LICENSING OTHER PROPERTIES for publishing in the UK and Europe. Things like D&D, Paranoia, Call of Cthulhu. THIS is what enabled them to expand into other areas.

Ninja'ed by chromedog!
To address Jancoran's concern, looking back at the days GW "practically made the hobby" compared to now is the primary complaint (Started in 1975, 1977 White Dwarf started).
It is the contrast, think less "hate" and more "you have done better and can do better" (their arguable hay-day was around 1991 to 1997).
They run the risk of fading away with barely a wimper with no response to their competition and that would be a shame, nostalgia still generates some goodwill (rather strained mind you!).

I remember many years of playing many hobbies with GW meaning nothing (at the time).
It was around 2nd edition (1993) that they began to be something of notice in my area (Rogue Trader released 1987), (40k Epic in 1988, 2nd ed. 1994).
It is Chainmail (TSR: 1971), D&D(TSR: 1974), Ogre (Steve Jackson Games: 1977), CarWars(Steve Jackson Games: 1982), Battletech(FASA: 1984), Paranoia (West End Games: 1984) and AD&D(TSR: 1989) they all definitely paved the way.

GW historically is not so much an innovator but stands on the shoulders of giants.
They had become successful by being part of the gaming renaissance in the 80's and it would be a shame for them to miss the boat in this 2010's innovative time.

Until the time they choose to change, we would have to regretfully place GW games on the back burner and cannot justify premium cost of GW direct sales.

I'll order direct and pay in-store because the local GW has a great manager and a great scene. I try to support any stores in the area that have tables, tournaments, etc.

kb305 wrote:
the new citadel range does have some nice colors in there worth picking up.

The problem for me (aside from the issue of trying to work out just what everything is based on non-descriptive names that have nothing to do with actual colours) is that they keep changing them.

Army building is often a drawn out affair, or something that one comes back to after a few years when a new codex is released... and it's handy to know that the colours you used at the start are still going to be available when you need them again.

I've lost count of the number of colour schemes I've had to change because somewhere in the time between working on a given project, GW have decided to either change a shade or drop the colour completely.

The sheer awesomeness in a pot that was Devlan Mud was the last thing tying me to GW's paint range... and so of course, they changed it. That was the last straw for me.

I would never buy direct unless I had to. The price is just too high. A 20% discount online brings the price back to just "high" levels instead of "what the feth how the hell is this worth that price" levels.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:
The sheer awesomeness in a pot that was Devlan Mud was the last thing tying me to GW's paint range... and so of course, they changed it. That was the last straw for me.

You mean they weren't telling the truth when they said Agrax Earthshade was the replacement?

No, it's a different shade.

Why would I buy things for full price when I can get them for 20% off from the Warstore? I buy lots of old models on eBay, but I generally buy new models from Warstore or eBay sellers who sell them for 20% off or so. Once in a great while I'll get something for full price, but that's only when it's exclusive from the GW store or I want to support an FLGS by getting a pot of paint or something.

If I had a FLGS that I actually went to, maybe I'd buy from there.

But I don't. SO I make all my purchases from ebay. Over 3000 points of Orky goodness and all of it with a discount.

I would support fully a FLGS but I don't have one. I will NEVER order from GW online. That only thing I bought of there was a Chaplain which ended up costing my $27. Never again, I could have bought that chaplain on ebay for less than half that.

Never again

Even a FLGS isn't enoug to make me pay full price for overpriced GW minis.

I think i never have bought anything from GW directly always via my FLGS, the rest second hand

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
As a Canadian I buy from GW almost exclusively. very very quick shipping. Wish there was a store that gave discounts, but the ones I see dont ship to canada, or bill you for shipping so its just easier to buy from GW itself.

Some of the stores I have been to have had higher prices then GW!

I buy from my local GW, as it is very close, and the above problem.

Odd thing I was on a third party site that did 25% discount, I ran their prices through an inflation programme going back to 2000 - when I first started playing.

Taking the inflation into account, at that level of discount the prices haven't really budged for bog standard products like Tactical Marines (2000: £12, 2014: £18), Rhinos etc. and Assault Marines are actually cheaper.

So there you go GW prices have risen 25% above inflation. If you want to be 'official' without being ripped off go third party.

EDIT: Reading that back it sounds blindingly obvious, I mean mathematically a 25% discount is the 'fair' price.

Windchild wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
As a Canadian I buy from GW almost exclusively. very very quick shipping. Wish there was a store that gave discounts, but the ones I see dont ship to canada, or bill you for shipping so its just easier to buy from GW itself.

Some of the stores I have been to have had higher prices then GW!

I buy from my local GW, as it is very close, and the above problem.

Yup, stupid lures! "Oh we have this model you want for 50% off!....plus 60$ shipping to canada, from Canada ahahaha!"

I refuse to buy anything gw-related, period. When my paints run out, i'll have to go elsewhere. Still willing to return to the game if they either balance or price it correctly. Which is looking like never at this point, but i'll consider them if they have a buyout/liquidation sale for sure.

...why don't you mix your paints?..

 koooaei wrote:
...why don't you mix your paints?..

You mean as they run out? I intend to, but i haven't done any painting since about 2012 so most of my paints are still good. When they do run out i'll look at alternatives, coat d'arms is looking most likely at this point.

I don't buy anything produced by GW from them or any other retailer. I don't even buy from ebay any more.

All my hobby money goes to other companies.

 chromedog wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
oh the crusade continues. Yes lets UNIONIZE the fans of a plastic toy game in protest!

...

I got no problem...zero...with 3D printers, and EBay purchases and any other way you can make the hobby more accessible.

I just dislike the CONSTANT attack on GW itself as if all the players of the world should unite and smite them for making a product and selling it. Good lawd.

The copmpany practically made the hobby possible and even if ya find a cheaper way to play the game...which again I endorse... Can we quit the hate mail part of it already?

I'm sorry?

GW "made the hobby"? Sorry, going to have to call bull**** on that one. Although none of the gaming companies have quite mastered the art of wallet molestation that GW has.

I was a gamer BEFORE GW existed in the retail store market. Games stores existed before the GW retail model existed. GAMERS built the "hobby", not some faceless corp entity.
GW would be nothing without the hobby - the larger overall toy soldier tabletop wargaming hobby that their games FIT into, not apart from. They got their start by LICENSING OTHER PROPERTIES for publishing in the UK and Europe. Things like D&D, Paranoia, Call of Cthulhu. THIS is what enabled them to expand into other areas.

Dear Mister Exception to all the rules,

I dont care if you played games before GW. Most of those games WERENT truly wargames.

Wargames are not RPG's. RPG's are not war games.

Thank you.

 Jancoran wrote:
I dont care if you played games before GW. Most of those games WERENT truly wargames.

Wargames are not RPG's. RPG's are not war games. .

GW didn't invent wargames. And plenty of us were playing wargames before GW came along.

GW just happened to be holding the lion's tail when wargaming started to become more 'mainstream'.

I buy GW direct, but when I do it, it's through my local GW so I don't have to pay for shipping. I actually buy everything through my local GW store. As its right next to my office I can pop in on my lunch break, and tho I've looked at online discounters once you factor in shipping the savings are non-existent.

Also my GW now has a loyalty card system with free bitz awarded. So that's a nice bonus.

I usually buy one small box of figures at a time. If I was to bulk buy an army I would certainly consider the discounters instead.

As for ebay, I find new stuff goes for RRP or close enough so i don't bother. I use ebay only for OOP Necromunda miniatures which I collect.

 insaniak wrote:

kb305 wrote:
the new citadel range does have some nice colors in there worth picking up.

The problem for me (aside from the issue of trying to work out just what everything is based on non-descriptive names that have nothing to do with actual colours) is that they keep changing them.

Army building is often a drawn out affair, or something that one comes back to after a few years when a new codex is released... and it's handy to know that the colours you used at the start are still going to be available when you need them again.

I've lost count of the number of colour schemes I've had to change because somewhere in the time between working on a given project, GW have decided to either change a shade or drop the colour completely.

The sheer awesomeness in a pot that was Devlan Mud was the last thing tying me to GW's paint range... and so of course, they changed it. That was the last straw for me.

Yup, the new line is all new pigments. Many of the colours are similar to the last (devlan mud) GW range but far from an exact match. That was definitely very annoying.

Army painter warpaints is made by the same company that made the last (devlan mud) GW range. In fact army painter ink strong tone is EXACTLY the same as devlan and they give you way more than GW used to. 18mls and a dollar fifty or so less per bottle.

edit: the only way I can get results acceptable to me using the new gw washes is to mix them with army painter inks. the devlan style washes have no equal. GW washes suck unless mixed with other mediums. LONG LIVE LIQUID TALENT.