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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Quick Question, what was Bradigus theme doing that made this so bad?

29" threat (3 8-inch places and 5" feat move, not necessarily in that order) on a synergy-chain Wold Guardian that's hitting with POW 24s at MAT 13 (two initials, three Fury to buy, and the target's knocked down after the first one hits) if everything goes off perfectly. The problem is the "if everything goes off perfectly" part, Bradigus can easily be the most powerful warlock in Circle but you have to be the best player who has ever existed to get it out of him.

So just because some player might be a jerk and ruins it for everyone else?
Its like the Bloodseer all over again.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So just because some player might be a jerk and ruins it for everyone else?
Its like the Bloodseer all over again.

No. I think the problem is people are looking at it as 'oh they were trying to nerf Brad but screwed the whole faction' but I think more likely it was 'oh Brad can abuse this, we didn't mean for it to be there in the first place and it was pretty ridiculous anyway, let's change it'. It's a nerf to shifting stones because Brads shenanigans were the final straw, not a nerf to Brad. Also, it gives them more design space for Circle moving forward because they don't have to balance everything with the double teleport. And let's face it, PP have a pretty good idea what they're doing. It's definitely a change for the better.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So just because some player might be a jerk and ruins it for everyone else?
Its like the Bloodseer all over again.

No. I think the problem is people are looking at it as 'oh they were trying to nerf Brad but screwed the whole faction' but I think more likely it was 'oh Brad can abuse this, we didn't mean for it to be there in the first place and it was pretty ridiculous anyway, let's change it'. It's a nerf to shifting stones because Brads shenanigans were the final straw, not a nerf to Brad. Also, it gives them more design space for Circle moving forward because they don't have to balance everything with the double teleport. And let's face it, PP have a pretty good idea what they're doing. It's definitely a change for the better.

Agreed. It's not that Bradigus revealed the problem or is the problem it's that he exacerbated an issue that never really should have been by taking the double port and making it a potential triple(also ensuring that doubles were easier to pull off in his Tier).

 welshhoppo wrote:
I've never actually faced the double teleport because out of the many players in my area not one of them plays Circle.


I'm assuming it allowed for crazy T1/T2 shenanigans.

Outside of some janky Kreuger2 top of 2 assassinations it didn't let you do that.

But it could let you do stuff in the mid game. Like possibly threaten a 24+ inch non-linear assassination. A wolf could go from the left flank to the right flank and kill something.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
I've never actually faced the double teleport because out of the many players in my area not one of them plays Circle.


I'm assuming it allowed for crazy T1/T2 shenanigans.

Outside of some janky Kreuger2 top of 2 assassinations it didn't let you do that.

But it could let you do stuff in the mid game. Like possibly threaten a 24+ inch non-linear assassination. A wolf could go from the left flank to the right flank and kill something.

If everything goes off absolutely perfectly Bradigus could get a bottom of one assassination out of the three stones but it'd have to be against an incredibly incautious opponent with a squishy warcaster, not an actual game against a real person. Chaining teleports is infinitely scarier theorycrafting than it is on the table.

Yeah, although the double teleport was actually a real threat. It happened in maybe 10% of games, but the threat of it was always there.

It should be noted that not all teleportation is restricted to once per turn. Circle has two that you can use as many times as you have fury and targets (Sands of Fate and Unseen Path). They even let you still do stuff with your movement, just not advance with it.

I actually think that it might be even less that Bradigus was the reason for the change, and that the change was on queeu for a while and Bradigus was allowed at all with that in mind.

And I think the forums have had a lot more folks taunting Circle players and calling them crutch-users than actual Circle player complaints at this point.

ANd stuff.

 Blaque wrote:
It should be noted that not all teleportation is restricted to once per turn. Circle has two that you can use as many times as you have fury and targets (Sands of Fate and Unseen Path). They even let you still do stuff with your movement, just not advance with it.

I actually think that it might be even less that Bradigus was the reason for the change, and that the change was on queeu for a while and Bradigus was allowed at all with that in mind.

And I think the forums have had a lot more folks taunting Circle players and calling them crutch-users than actual Circle player complaints at this point.

ANd stuff.

I think it's more 3-5 doooooooooooooooooom prophets threatening to leave the game (tells me everything I needed to know about their attitude in general), 1-2 guys just too far deep to back away from the 'Circle is ruined' argument to back away now, and 8-10 people saying 'You'll live, we promise' in various ways. Sprinkle in 'You guys deserved it' gloaters as neccessary.