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2015/04/21 03:44:14
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
St. George, UT
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Its the D strength weapons for me. They set an unrealistic presidence for just more codex creep. There is no reason for guns to be that strong on basic infantry models. Hell, not even heavy infantry deserves a gun that strong. It just throws the whole game in a direction that is unfriendly for casual or even guys who just want to have a laugh.
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See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:
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2015/04/21 03:50:27
Subject: Re:which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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ImAGeek wrote: gmaleron wrote:Another "Lets freak out over Eldar" thread, seriously people need to calm down and stop complaining and overreacting.
Just don't read the bloody Eldar threads if it annoys you so much. Do people not think that the amount people are 'freaking out' might actually be quite telling?
Or people need to stop making them, I think there are over 5 so far? Enough is enough and no its not telling, its people assuming the worst without having ever played against the new book and in my experience its what always happens when an apparently good new book drops, its the end of the world. WAY to much drama.
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19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
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2015/04/21 03:53:30
Subject: Re:which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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ImAGeek wrote:Do people not think that the amount people are 'freaking out' might actually be quite telling?
^^^This is actually what worries me. I have been playing/following 40K for long enough to tell the difference between when people are complaining because their army doesn't have the same stuff as the "new hotness" and when a new army genuinely has cause for concern. The new Eldar WILL change the meta. Although with so many releases lately, who can even keep up with a "meta"?
I will not stop playing 40k as long as there are at least a few local players. This is my only hobby and over half my livingroom is dedicated to 40k (table, terrain, painting station, etc.). If too many people "rage-quit", I won't know what to do with my life! (just being dramatic to lighten the mood).
A lot of people on so many of these anti-Eldar threads have said to wait until the book comes out and see what happens. To that I would like to add: Also talk to your local Eldar players, come to an understanding of what kinds of lists you would like to play against. Please be polite in doing so. This is a game and it is up to us to make it fun
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/21 03:56:08
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2015/04/21 03:57:20
Subject: Re:which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought
The oceans of the world
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Galef wrote: ImAGeek wrote:Do people not think that the amount people are 'freaking out' might actually be quite telling?
^^^This is actually what worries me. I have been playing/following 40K for long enough to tell the difference between when people are complaining because their army doesn't have the same stuff as the "new hotness" and when a new army genuinely has cause for concern. The new Eldar WILL change the meta. Although with so many releases lately, who can even keep up with a "meta"?
I will not stop playing 40k as long as there are at least a few local players. This is my only hobby and over half my livingroom is dedicated to 40k (table, terrain, painting station, etc.). If too many people "rage-quit", I won't know what to do with my life! (just being dramatic to lighten the mood).
A lot of people on so many of these anti-Eldar threads have said to wait until the book comes out and see what happens. To that I would like to add: Also talk to your local Eldar players, come to an understanding of what kinds of lists you would like to play against. Please be polite in doing so. This is a game and it is up to us to make it fun
What he said. Just wait and see. And I mean jesus christ people I want to see some other threads that aren't about these stupid Eldar
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2015/04/21 04:35:06
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
Little Rock, Arkansas
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Jetbikes for one. I'm a fast close combat army with light shooting. Models that can't be caught in close combat ever that are also very relevant on the battlefield shouldn't exist. It's just more shooting > melee scale-tipping.
I also take huge issue with d-scythes. They used to be s4 ap2. Wounding t3 on 3's, t4 on 4's, bypassing any armor, but unable to hurt vehicles/MC's in general. Now they wound anything on 3+, and cause d3 wounds/hull points EACH with no fnp/reanimation. S4->S: D seems like a ludicrous jump. They are now "handle anything" flamers where a unit of 5 will down orks, guard, marines, swarms (oh dear god, do they get DOUBLE the d3 wounds??) terminators, meganobz, dark eldar multiwound beasts and abominations, light armor vehicles, medium armor vehicles, heavy armor vehicles, monstrous creatures, super heavy knights, and gargantuan creatures.
They even scare the hell out of bigger super heavies. A set of 5 will take off 7 HP average from any vehicle they touch. Even my reaver Titan would have an oil leak from seeing a unit that can do that to him for only a couple hundred points.
The WK being way beyond criminally undercosted is my 3rd issue. Just another competitive auto-take, and the only good way to deal with it is IN THE ELDAR CODEX.
4th and getting down there in offensiveness is the wraithguard standard single shot guns being str D. Not a VERY large change, but still a huge buff when targeting MC's, GC's, super heavies, and decent/heavy armor vehicles.
5th is formations. I hate all free formation bonuses, but theirs aren't all that scary.
6th anything that buffs overwatch. It's already a slowed "we hate close combat units" mechanic, except apparently for the eldar-only unit that gets to ignore it, of course.
A lot of the other changes sound like neat tabletop mechanics that make the game more interesting, like warp spider reaction jumping, and the scorpions super stealth until they are in combat, as well as the haywire impact hits on flyers. Love all those mechanics, it's just the short laundry list of insane changes that destroy my soul.
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20000+ points
Tournament reports:
1234567 |
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2015/04/21 04:53:04
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes
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GoliothOnline wrote:Im more pissed that the Eldar are getting ANOTHER Dex so damn soon..... I dont want all this nonsense to be fluttering around and disrupting my investments on this hobby, nor do I want to play an army that is simply auto win for what everyone will surely think as " FOTM"
Eldar seem to have a golden stick up their arse in terms of Codex Writers and I would love to meet them and their play testers....
Play testers? GW has play testers?
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[Khorne Daemonkin Warband] 4/4/0 |
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2015/04/21 04:53:48
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
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niv-mizzet wrote:A lot of the other changes sound like neat tabletop mechanics that make the game more interesting, like warp spider reaction jumping, and the scorpions super stealth until they are in combat, as well as the haywire impact hits on flyers. Love all those mechanics, it's just the short laundry list of insane changes that destroy my soul.
I must agree with your last point. I love what they did with the Aspects. If the book was only the Serpent Shield nerf and the Aspect buffs I'd love it.
It's just really tough when I just got a couple of the last releases and this one is on such a completely different level.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/21 04:54:42
BlaxicanX wrote:A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
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2015/04/21 05:04:51
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Cog in the Machine
Delta BC
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And see how the problems of the tau seem to forgotten about
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3500
4000
2500
2000
RoS 35
Adeptus Mechanicus 30k 1750
Harlequins 1100
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2015/04/21 05:06:37
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Nothing wrong with the Tau, their power dropped off a lot since 6th and are not longer a top tier army.
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19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
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2015/04/21 05:14:37
Subject: Re:which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Ancient Venerable Dark Angels Dreadnought
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losing wraithguard as Troops has to be the worst change for me.
Also, not everyone has the be TFG playing Eldar. 9 bikes with 3-4 hvy weapons is just fine. Wraithguard without WWP is just fine, sure guns are nasty...but don't go near the buggers with your tanks...blast them. Wraithknights? Just bring them out occasionally. sure, there will be some that spam the crap out of the codex, but they would do that with any codex. This one just happens to have a lot of options to do so, but people should play a few games first to see what builds are really causing problems.
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2015/04/21 05:25:20
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Hissing Hybrid Metamorph
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The most upsetting thing for me is lots of D.
Followed closely by the amount of forum topics there are.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/21 05:25:34
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2015/04/21 05:52:16
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Devastating Dark Reaper
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The opinions of the mon-keigh weigh less than sunlight.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/21 05:52:34
Hige sceal þē heardra || heorte þē cēnre,
mōd sceal þē māre || þē ūre mægen lytlað. |
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2015/04/21 05:57:31
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Rippy wrote:
Followed closely by the amount of forum topics there are.
Word. Nerf duplicate forum topics.
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2015/04/21 07:52:46
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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40kenthus
Manchester UK
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I find it worrying that seemingly grown-assed adults can get upset at something in a tabletop game.
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Member of the "Awesome Wargaming Dudes"
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2015/04/21 08:01:30
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Thermo-Optical Hac Tao
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monders wrote:I find it worrying that seemingly grown-assed adults can get upset at something in a tabletop game.
I find it worrying that people can't voice their dissatisfaction of a product without people leaping to 'they're upset/whining etc'. People are paying money for these rules. Quite a lot of money. If they're unhappy about it, they can damn well voice their dissatisfaction.
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2015/04/21 11:39:45
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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gmaleron wrote:Martel732 wrote:I'll stop complaining when the BA have a chance against the Eldar. Or the DA for that matter.
Eldar are not invincible and a BA Drop Pod army could do some nasty stuff against a Jetbike list if played correctly. And DA are going to be redone as well so who knows, they may be even cheesier since they are "mighty Space Marines"
BA drop pod can't even beat the BA. Please. The only thing "mighty" about space marines is smashbane and gravstars. BA have neither.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/21 11:41:07
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2015/04/21 11:46:46
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot
Kazakhstan
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gmaleron wrote:Martel732 wrote:I'll stop complaining when the BA have a chance against the Eldar. Or the DA for that matter.
Eldar are not invincible and a BA Drop Pod army could do some nasty stuff against a Jetbike list if played correctly. And DA are going to be redone as well so who knows, they may be even cheesier since they are "mighty Space Marines"
Every time I hear about cheasy DA I have a warm fuzzy fealing and chukle uncontrollably.
I think overall Eldar codex became stronger? And I don't even know their decurion bonuses.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/04/21 11:59:27
Dark Angels ~ 7350pts (about 5800 painted);
Ultramarines ~ 4700pts (about 2700 painted);
Imperial Knights ~ 1300pts (about 800 painted);
Skitarii and Mechanicum ~ 2000pts (about 1800 painted);
Assassins ~ 850pts;
Tyranids ~ 2000pts |
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2015/04/21 11:49:24
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Even further, the Astartes codices as a whole have EMBARRASSING internal balance. 2/3 the models are unplayable. There is NOTHING mighty about most space marine units. Most are bad jokes.
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2015/04/21 12:42:40
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Gargantuan Grotesque With Gnarskin
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The fact that Dark Eldar got screwed in comparison. Why do I have to be punished for not playing a poster boy army
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/21 12:42:53
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2015/04/21 13:24:47
Subject: Re:which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Mighty Vampire Count
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gmaleron wrote: ImAGeek wrote: gmaleron wrote:Another "Lets freak out over Eldar" thread, seriously people need to calm down and stop complaining and overreacting.
Just don't read the bloody Eldar threads if it annoys you so much. Do people not think that the amount people are 'freaking out' might actually be quite telling?
Or people need to stop making them, I think there are over 5 so far? Enough is enough and no its not telling, its people assuming the worst without having ever played against the new book and in my experience its what always happens when an apparently good new book drops, its the end of the world. WAY to much drama.
"Nothing has been proved - wait till the Codex arrives, ignore all the pics of the actuall rules, its all fine, La la I am not looking at the pics, they are not real, not listening"
etc etc
Two YEARS to fix Cheese Serpents -how long to fix this ambomination of a codex?
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I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page
A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction |
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2015/04/21 13:34:29
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
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Well, I think the new Jetbikes will change the meta while the Wraithknight as LoW does not.
Let's see if Wraithguard comes with D cannons.
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Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
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2015/04/21 13:44:21
Subject: Re:which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf
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Mr Morden wrote: gmaleron wrote: ImAGeek wrote: gmaleron wrote:Another "Lets freak out over Eldar" thread, seriously people need to calm down and stop complaining and overreacting. Just don't read the bloody Eldar threads if it annoys you so much. Do people not think that the amount people are 'freaking out' might actually be quite telling? Or people need to stop making them, I think there are over 5 so far? Enough is enough and no its not telling, its people assuming the worst without having ever played against the new book and in my experience its what always happens when an apparently good new book drops, its the end of the world. WAY to much drama. "Nothing has been proved - wait till the Codex arrives, ignore all the pics of the actuall rules, its all fine, La la I am not looking at the pics, they are not real, not listening" etc etc Two YEARS to fix Cheese Serpents -how long to fix this ambomination of a codex?
And the thing is, when stuff that isn't overpowered comes out and a few people think it is, it normally goes something like this... Forum poster 1: "Wow!! That's so amazing and powerful!" Forum poster 2: "Nah, it's not because reasons" Forum poster 1: "Hmm, maybe you're right" And we move on. The times when something is GENUINELY overpowered the discussion is more heated, with people explaining why it's overpowered and the apologists with their fingers in their ears resorting to "just wait and see". The fact is, people have been playing this game for a long time now. So when something comes along that is obvious like Jetbikes being underpriced for their firepower or the WK being underpriced for being a D toting Gargantuan or the excessive D of the Wraithguard, people tend to figure it out even before playing a game.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/21 13:45:37
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2015/04/21 13:54:07
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Roarin' Runtherd
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The last option, and people supporting the dex/gw at this point, all sound a lot like the Ad Mech. "Everything is fine! Nothing is broken!"
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Painted Armies
1350 With DreadMob budz
1100 BloodRavens |
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2015/04/21 13:55:13
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Thermo-Optical Hac Tao
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Flame-Rage wrote:The last option, and people supporting the dex/ gw at this point, all sound a lot like the Ad Mech. "Everything is fine! Nothing is broken!"
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2015/04/21 14:00:16
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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Is there no poll option for "Codex not out yet, will reserve judgement for when it actually exists"?
I get that it's a fun hot-button conversation topic on the forums right now, but for gods sake the book is'int even out yet.
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2015/04/21 14:06:40
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Executing Exarch
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Galef wrote:As an Eldar player since 2008, I was really looking forward to being able to play my Eldar without people complaining. That is NOT gonna happen now.
To be fair, its never happened nor will it ever happen, people have hated Eldar for the entire history of the game. Its nothing really new.
Ive mentioned it a few times in other places but what seems to be happening is GW is actively attacking tournaments. We know as of 2008 they took a 'not for competitive gamers' stance and ran with that. Then allies and 6th happened and it started the decline of integrity and balance, since then tournaments have been creating balances that GW has actively countered.
No allies? Here's a detachment that doesn't count as an ally.
No super heavies? Nope, you don't need permission now.
Still no super heavies? Here's the imperial knight
Don't like double force org? Here's unbound and the ability to take infinite detachments
Source limit? Here's the ability to take all the sources as 1
Want your old special rules? You need to combine these detachments
Percentage troop minimums? Here's troop-less, HQ-less armies.
Trying to take the bare minimum? Nope here is bad unit taxes.
Oh you think D has no place in 40k? Here is an army that has it on infantry.
You tournament gamers still kicking? Here watch this.
They are expending a lot of effort, so much so its getting more difficult to believe that they aren't trying to turn away or convert competitive gamers.
Honestly tournaments will need to make lists of restrictions, percentage caps, and 0 to whatever caps as well as making tournament specific force orgs, and eventually the book to book restrictions. Which GW used to do, until they cranked their release schedule and abandoned the game balance and focused on calling their products "collectibles" to tag the triple cost price tags. Automatically Appended Next Post: clamclaw wrote:Is there no poll option for "Codex not out yet, will reserve judgement for when it actually exists"?
I get that it's a fun hot-button conversation topic on the forums right now, but for gods sake the book is'int even out yet.
All the points are out and we know the details. I tried defending it the other day, and went through the different points and ended up agreeing that its busted. The ability to take multiple knights that can multi target with D weapons then stomp the infantry makes them very very attractive, and for just shy of 300pts its a no brainer option. Which you could just stay "well tar pit then" then you enter the scatbikes to hand the infantry. MSU and target saturation? Well the knight multi targets, there goes blocking them easily. At this point you're at 835pts and you'll handle most people. Or you go wind rider core and take 1-12 knights and it gets really bad.
4 knights and a wind rider core is very real at 1850.
Really the only counter is bunkerpults and centurion star and praying to go first.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/21 14:18:37
Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
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2015/04/21 14:22:35
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Brainy Zoanthrope
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The fact that Eldar can have one of their super fast super shooty bikes with better armour for the same points that an Ork nob pays FOR JUST THE BIKE is probably the main issue, but its the bikes for me.
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2015/04/21 14:34:51
Subject: Re:which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Ruthless Interrogator
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BlaxicanX wrote:I'm glad that another "complain about Eldar" thread was created. We don't have enough of them on the forum, yet.
You can never have to many "complain about Eldar" threads..... ever.
To be fair, most of these guys have very valid points, but there are some that have blown this completely out of proportion.
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Space Marines: Jacks of all trades yet masters of GRAV CANNONS!!!.
My Star Wars Imperial Codex Project: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641831.page
It has 7 HQs, 2 Troop types with Dedicated Transports, 5 Elite units, 5 Fast Attack units, 6 Heavy Support units, 2 Formations with unique units not in the rest of the codex, and 2 LOW choices.
‘I do not care who knows the truth now, tomorrow, or in ten thousand years. Loyalty is its own reward.’ -Lion El' Jonson |
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2015/04/21 15:09:23
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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Ravenous D wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
clamclaw wrote:Is there no poll option for "Codex not out yet, will reserve judgement for when it actually exists"?
I get that it's a fun hot-button conversation topic on the forums right now, but for gods sake the book is'int even out yet.
All the points are out and we know the details. I tried defending it the other day, and went through the different points and ended up agreeing that its busted. The ability to take multiple knights that can multi target with D weapons then stomp the infantry makes them very very attractive, and for just shy of 300pts its a no brainer option. Which you could just stay "well tar pit then" then you enter the scatbikes to hand the infantry. MSU and target saturation? Well the knight multi targets, there goes blocking them easily. At this point you're at 835pts and you'll handle most people. Or you go wind rider core and take 1-12 knights and it gets really bad.
4 knights and a wind rider core is very real at 1850.
Really the only counter is bunkerpults and centurion star and praying to go first.
You're probably right, and seeing the leaked rules looks broken as all hell. Moving Wraithknights to gargantuans/ LoW seemed like a way to limit their saturation, but with the formation options it will probably do little good. It will most likely be a very easy to abuse codex, though I try not to play in a particularly competitive format.
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2015/04/21 17:49:22
Subject: which Eldar change is the most upsetting for you?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Why is 'EML lost pinning' not an option?
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