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Azreal13 wrote: I do love the "nothing will happen, why even bother?" crowd though, it's a good job not everyone thinks like that or we'd still be stuck in the Dark Ages
Well, these days it's harder to hide in Sherwood Forest from the authorities, after physically attacking the unfairness coming out of Nottingham.
Plus, it depends. If you go to a blacksmith, looking for some kind of advancement in weapons, armour, agricultural technology etc. and his only, stubborn, unchanging response is 'stone axes, but badly-made, more expensive and more of 'em', do you keep going back or do you find another blacksmith?
Azreal13 wrote: I do love the "nothing will happen, why even bother?" crowd though, it's a good job not everyone thinks like that or we'd still be stuck in the Dark Ages
Well, these days it's harder to hide in Sherwood Forest from the authorities, after physically attacking the unfairness coming out of Nottingham.
Plus, it depends. If you go to a blacksmith, looking for some kind of advancement in weapons, armour, agricultural technology etc. and his only, stubborn, unchanging response is 'stone axes, but badly-made, more expensive and more of 'em', do you keep going back or do you find another blacksmith?
Logically, that is of course the right action. A member of staff at Sainsbury's was rude to me for no reason a few years back, so as a consequence I no longer buy my groceries from them. When there are perfectly valid alternatives to something you're dissatisfied with, no longer patronising the company you're not happy with is a no brainer.
It's testament to the strength of the appeal of the 40K universe in its various dimensions (and the degree of mismanagement that's occurred to reach this point) that rather than simply wander off and find something new, so many people are basically imploring GW to be better, either directly or indirectly, so they can continue to engage with their universe.
I don't believe anyone wants GW to fail (although some may feel they deserve to) so it isn't surprising that people are trying to find ways to communicate to them what so many feel would prevent it. One letter, petition, placard waving protest outside GWHQ or whatever may not achieve the desired result, but who's to say what the collective effect may be? One things for sure, the thing Wayne Gretzky said about the shots you don't take certain applies on this instance.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Azreal13 wrote: I do love the "nothing will happen, why even bother?" crowd though, it's a good job not everyone thinks like that or we'd still be stuck in the Dark Ages
Well, these days it's harder to hide in Sherwood Forest from the authorities, after physically attacking the unfairness coming out of Nottingham.
Plus, it depends. If you go to a blacksmith, looking for some kind of advancement in weapons, armour, agricultural technology etc. and his only, stubborn, unchanging response is 'stone axes, but badly-made, more expensive and more of 'em', do you keep going back or do you find another blacksmith?
Logically, that is of course the right action. A member of staff at Sainsbury's was rude to me for no reason a few years back, so as a consequence I no longer buy my groceries from them. When there are perfectly valid alternatives to something you're dissatisfied with, no longer patronising the company you're not happy with is a no brainer.
It's testament to the strength of the appeal of the 40K universe in its various dimensions (and the degree of mismanagement that's occurred to reach this point) that rather than simply wander off and find something new, so many people are basically imploring GW to be better, either directly or indirectly, so they can continue to engage with their universe.
I don't believe anyone wants GW to fail (although some may feel they deserve to) so it isn't surprising that people are trying to find ways to communicate to them what so many feel would prevent it. One letter, petition, placard waving protest outside GWHQ or whatever may not achieve the desired result, but who's to say what the collective effect may be? One things for sure, the thing Wayne Gretzky said about the shots you don't take certain applies on this instance.
When a company fails to meet your expectations you look to other companies that meet your expectations. You have to hit them where it hurts and that's in the pocket book.
Sure you could have wrote a letter to the store manager about the employee that was rude to you but instead you decided not to shop there anymore. Iam sure if you brought up the issue with the store manager something would happen or if you sent a petition to that grocery store with 14k signatures they would listen. But with GW I think your just wasting your time, they don't listen to the community.
I'm not saying I disagree with that assumption necessarily, but saying "they're not listening" when the elapsed time hasn't really been sufficient to see any fraction considering the inertia of their release schedule is a bit premature.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
I'm not saying I disagree with that assumption necessarily, but saying "they're not listening" when the elapsed time hasn't really been sufficient to see any fraction considering the inertia of their release schedule is a bit premature.
It was back in October so I guess we'll give it some more time.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
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PM me for an INSANE (100K+ points) if you desire.
MWHistorian wrote: A scary thought is: What if the Eldar dex IS the answer to that petition. :O
Book layouts take so much time I figure they'd need more time than that
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"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
MWHistorian wrote: Combine this letter with "not buying GW products until complaints are addressed" and I'd be on board.
These corporate guys only understand money. Quit buying their crappy products and then they will start to listen. Can't write letters and keep supporting their product hoping things are going to change
Chute82 wrote: honestly Tom Kirby is not going to read your letter, one of the secretary will read it and respond. You can write letters all day long to GW and nothing is going to change. Remember last fall when there was a petition that 10k + people signed that was sent to GW? It did nothing and that was over 10k of players
For those of us that missed that petition, mind if I ask what it was about?
Added my voice to it, it seems to have came out when I was on hiatus after NOVA.
14k+ signatories, that is quite impressive. I would think at least someone higher up the ladder would have been at least informed about it. Not that they would have altered their behavior.
And to think, they were doing so well with the first half dozen books in 7th...
If you go back and read a lot of their press releases, interviews with former distributors and their corporate communications - one thing is clear - there has been a culture of hubris, driven from the top.
They feel that they make the best models in the world, and thats all that matters - heck, the former CEO even bragged about not needing marketing (before he got fired...but don't think he connected the dots..).
While the new CEO has long been at GW (Current CEO, Kevin Roundtree - was an accountant for a long time, and later CFO) the question which remains is how much has he drunk Kirby's Koolaid so to speak.
Rumor has it he has admitted to not knowing a lot about the hobby - and has been visiting stores to talk to store managers. Hopefully some of them have a clue, and spoke up. - this at self is a very good sign (if true, my source was a friend who is a gw employee) as it means he knows there are things he does not know.
Don't get me wrong - GW is profitable (not very) and will continue to be so - but with the right leadership who can leverage their extensive IP and good models - they could be a billion dollar company.
Oh, and regarding change and the pace of it
- if I were the new CEO - there would be visible and distinct changes in 24 hours.
(where is the new CEO video on the website, talking about how he loves the company, and wants to make customers happy)
-Within 72 hours, new faqs would be out, and they would be updated monthly.
- Within a month, forums, tweets, and facebook would be back.
- Within 6 months, there would public comments about new content and playtesting in their forums
- within a year, there would be a 'community advisory' team, made up of leaders of the largest tournaments and events from around the world, who could submit feedback, and have the ears of the game designers.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/05/13 03:54:12
DavePak
"Remember, in life, the only thing you absolutely control is your own attitude - do not squander that power."
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davethepak wrote: If you go back and read a lot of their press releases, interviews with former distributors and their corporate communications - one thing is clear - there has been a culture of hubris, driven from the top.
They feel that they make the best models in the world, and thats all that matters - heck, the former CEO even bragged about not needing marketing (before he got fired...but don't think he connected the dots..).
While the new CEO has long been at GW (Current CEO, Kevin Roundtree - was an accountant for a long time, and later CFO) the question which remains is how much has he drunk Kirby's Koolaid so to speak.
Kirby didn't get fired, he could not legally hold both jobs he had at GW.
The new CEO was hand picked not for his skill but his "attitude" so I wouldn't have much hope.
Peter: As we all know, Christmas is that mystical time of year when the ghost of Jesus rises from the grave to feast on the flesh of the living! So we all sing Christmas Carols to lull him back to sleep.
Bob: Outrageous, How dare he say such blasphemy. I've got to do something.
Man #1: Bob, there's nothing you can do.
Bob: Well, I guess I'll just have to develop a sense of humor.
He could absolutely legally hold both jobs, it just wasn't considered best practice.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Has anyone experience with rules queries? Does Jervis Johnson or someone else from the design team answer emails or letters? Should I contact White Dwarf?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/05/13 17:23:22
Does White Dwarf still publish letters? (It's been a while for me)
DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++ Get your own Dakka Code!
"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
Yeah I believe they do since the weekly edition, but I think it's more along the lines of "Hi WD, can you tell me what colours were used on than Stompa last week?"
WD: "Don't bother me with that. Greenskin nonsense Perry from Glasgow! but it was Snot Green available at the website and in store blah blah blah".
Not quite the letters page of twenty years ago.
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++ Get your own Dakka Code!
"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
There's an idea!
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