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Furyou Miko wrote:Its never too late to say no to beard.

It is when it is turn two :/

troa wrote:Stop playing him if he's going to be a douchebag about it. Simple as that. Otherwise, take whatever you want. Additionally, look at his army list, including any "homebrewed" characters before starting the match. If it seems overpowered compared to other in game characters at that point level, demand he up the points or not use the homebrew.

That is pretty much what I am going to start doing if this keeps up.

jhe90 wrote:Wonder if he will agree to proxy say a warlord titan ;-)

..... I have my little brother and a lot of tinfoil

Each player has different expectations of what they want from the game.

I get a little suspicious when people start messing with rules right from the beginning.
I push for "straight up" games at first where possible.
Any changes need to be agreed to and written down before hand.

It was good advice of establishing a cost system if you are both set on having "special" characters.
I have a friend who makes it a rule for himself to give a system and reasoning for a change and getting buy-in before fielding it.
I tend to harass him on what is his motivation for the change, it leads to interesting hemming and hawing but he is honest about it.
Balance in points is important even if it is GW...

I have a very competitive (other) friend where a favorite statement of his is "Do not tell me what I can or can not play with.".
He has a right.
I have to remind him however his unhappiness with me fielding vehicles (he is DE) runs very close to telling me what I could or could not play and hypocrisy is not cool.
I have found, you do not hold back you must field your best to the max with him: he would not do any less.

I find the easiest way to achieve "balance" is to design a scenario and get agreement to participate.
There are so many ways to add variation to the game (random draw objectives of table "events") and keeps both players from optimizing for a set scenario.
This has been the justification for many Maelstrom missions to prevent the sit back and blast each other confrontations.

Your friend sounds like he really wants to gain advantage to the point of infringing on your fun... not the best trait of a good friend: you may have to make fun of him a few times to keep him honest. I could only see that he could feel some limitations would be needed if his army is much smaller than yours and he does not have much to choose from at this time.

I think it was mentioned the "scrub", this web site is quite interesting for defining the true "playing to win" and how the "scrub" mindset prevents proper problem solving:
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

My unofficial poll: what condition are his models?
Barely assembled,
Primed,
Painted a couple colours,
Fully painted?

Just curious, I find most people who like to game in general make at an attempt to get some painting done because they like the look of the game the spectacle of it.
Those who like to play to win (possibly at "all costs"?) as their main motivation from my personal experience may not even have the models fully assembled because they mean little more than chess pieces.

Good luck!

 master of ordinance wrote:
Right you inglorious lot, I am having a slight issue with a friend of mine.
I play IG and he play's Space Marines. Now even though my codex is the weaker we do get some close battles.

The problem is that he is trying to limit me on the number of tanks I can bring. He keeps telling me that I can bring no more than 2 or 3 or 4 as he "hates fighting tanks" whilst he brings these home brewed characters and units that are so bloody OP that they take my entire army to kill - to give you an example he deployed a home brewed character last time that was 270 points had 7+ to all of his stats, murdered anything he got close to him, had FNP, IWND, etc and a 2+/3++ save. And was a level 4 psyker. Who picked his spells.

For this Monday's game I made a gentlemans agreement that I would not bring more than three tanks if he did not bring more than three psyker levels (I hate fighting psykers).
He agreed, then promptly said he would be bringing that new Libraius Conclave formation with 5 level 2 Librarians. And told me it was tough.

So, here are the options:

>Go along with having my already bottom tier army neutered even further.
>He only specified Heavy Support Tanks, so bring a command tank and two escorts, a Thunderer and a Destroyer.
>Sod it, if he wants war, he gets war. bring many many tanks.
>Enter the Shadowsword.

Your opponent doesn't sound particularly fun to play against.

Likewise, I try never to field less than a dozen vehicles in an IG army if I can help it, I like to typically run at least 15 in an 1850/2000pt army.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Right you inglorious lot, I am having a slight issue with a friend of mine.
I play IG and he play's Space Marines. Now even though my codex is the weaker we do get some close battles.

The problem is that he is trying to limit me on the number of tanks I can bring. He keeps telling me that I can bring no more than 2 or 3 or 4 as he "hates fighting tanks" whilst he brings these home brewed characters and units that are so bloody OP that they take my entire army to kill - to give you an example he deployed a home brewed character last time that was 270 points had 7+ to all of his stats, murdered anything he got close to him, had FNP, IWND, etc and a 2+/3++ save. And was a level 4 psyker. Who picked his spells.

For this Monday's game I made a gentlemans agreement that I would not bring more than three tanks if he did not bring more than three psyker levels (I hate fighting psykers).
He agreed, then promptly said he would be bringing that new Libraius Conclave formation with 5 level 2 Librarians. And told me it was tough.

So, here are the options:

>Go along with having my already bottom tier army neutered even further.
>He only specified Heavy Support Tanks, so bring a command tank and two escorts, a Thunderer and a Destroyer.
>Sod it, if he wants war, he gets war. bring many many tanks.
>Enter the Shadowsword.

Your opponent doesn't sound particularly fun to play against.

Likewise, I try never to field less than a dozen vehicles in an IG army if I can help it, I like to typically run at least 15 in an 1850/2000pt army.

^ This. I absolutely LOVE mechanized armies. They are awesome to look at and a blast to play too.

 Talizvar wrote:
Each player has different expectations of what they want from the game.

I get a little suspicious when people start messing with rules right from the beginning.
I push for "straight up" games at first where possible.
Any changes need to be agreed to and written down before hand.

It was good advice of establishing a cost system if you are both set on having "special" characters.
I have a friend who makes it a rule for himself to give a system and reasoning for a change and getting buy-in before fielding it.
I tend to harass him on what is his motivation for the change, it leads to interesting hemming and hawing but he is honest about it.
Balance in points is important even if it is GW...

I have a very competitive (other) friend where a favorite statement of his is "Do not tell me what I can or can not play with.".
He has a right.
I have to remind him however his unhappiness with me fielding vehicles (he is DE) runs very close to telling me what I could or could not play and hypocrisy is not cool.
I have found, you do not hold back you must field your best to the max with him: he would not do any less.

I find the easiest way to achieve "balance" is to design a scenario and get agreement to participate.
There are so many ways to add variation to the game (random draw objectives of table "events") and keeps both players from optimizing for a set scenario.
This has been the justification for many Maelstrom missions to prevent the sit back and blast each other confrontations.

Your friend sounds like he really wants to gain advantage to the point of infringing on your fun... not the best trait of a good friend: you may have to make fun of him a few times to keep him honest. I could only see that he could feel some limitations would be needed if his army is much smaller than yours and he does not have much to choose from at this time.

I think it was mentioned the "scrub", this web site is quite interesting for defining the true "playing to win" and how the "scrub" mindset prevents proper problem solving:
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

My unofficial poll: what condition are his models?
Barely assembled,
Primed,
Painted a couple colours,
Fully painted?

Just curious, I find most people who like to game in general make at an attempt to get some painting done because they like the look of the game the spectacle of it.
Those who like to play to win (possibly at "all costs"?) as their main motivation from my personal experience may not even have the models fully assembled because they mean little more than chess pieces.

Good luck!

His army is:
Assembled: Yes
Primed: Yes
Painted a couple of colours: Yes
Fully Painted: I believe he has yes, though a 'Thin your Paints' meme would be appropriate.

As for army sizes, well he has over twice the amount of stuff I have to draw from.

I have an established cost system for my homebrews - I price them as I see fit then post them on Dakka. If I get good feedback they stay, if I get told they are too cheap/OP they change

Thanks for the luck


As I post this I feel I should also mention the scenario he wants to play for our next game after this one. I have been trying to push for a bunker assault as with the old 4th edition rules (good times ), but he wasnt having it. Then suddenly out of the blue this appeared:

I have 2000 points and a single bunker (no extra weapons, just a 3+ cover save)
He has 3000 points but may take no more than 30 models (yes that is 300 points/model, something tells me I wont be enjoying this) and yes a Primarch is confirmed.
At the end of the game if I still control it I get 3VP. If he controls it or destroys it he gets 3VP.

Right now I feel like telling him either a straight up NO, or that I will be purchasing units at half cost. Oh, and I shall be bringing my Karl Gerat (Banehammer).

[EDIT]
And I am limited to 5 tanks

You really need to stand up for yourself. He refuses to play anything you want, and insists on always playing things massively stacked in his favor. Great friend...

How 'bout this instead

You:2,000 points

Him:3,000 points



All infantry troop models you have gain the "send in the next wave!" rule where if the unit is destroyed you may place an identical unit( including upgrades) into reserves that automatically walk on your board edge next turn.


Victory can only be attained by capturing the fortification you control.



The Fortification is treated as an" superheavy" building with 12hps with a transport capacity of 25 and can add 4 heavy bolter sponsons for 20pts.



Half of his army must begin the game in reserves, and any flyers he has( if any) can only come in on turn 3.



Any SM homebrew characters have a max cap of ML3 and may only ever pick power from the Biomancy, Pyromancy, and Telekinesis tables , max T of 5 (if Independent Character) or 6 (if just a character). Max number of wounds allowed is 3. Invul save can be no greater than 4+


Primarch is only allowed if the entire army follows 30k rules and no other custom characters of is are on the battlefield.

 master of ordinance wrote:

>He only specified Heavy Support Tanks, so bring a command tank and two escorts, a Thunderer and a Destroyer.
>Sod it, if he wants war, he gets war. bring many many tanks.
>Enter the Shadowsword.

It's a new formation:

Bring ten vehicles, get a Shadowsword for free.

Totes fair. If he complains, "tuff".

Ah, good that he has made an attempt to pretty up his models so he does have some art in his soul.

Not cool the guy has more to draw from than you and he still wants to limit what you can bring.

Was the email phrased as a "how does this sound?" or "this is what we are doing"?
Destroying a bunker is easy, the "gotcha" is capture OR destroy, he could just sit back and shoot at it.
Must be a mighty fine bunker for 1000pts, you should be fielding two or three of these:


From the points he is suggesting it is most likely some Centurions and Terminators to suck-up that many points down to 30 models.
Oh wait, "30 models" I wonder if he is going to play some heavy formations like the 3 Vindicator combo with the apocalyptic blast.
I take it force organization is out the window right?

It is just when one person dictates terms like this it just feels like a "setup".
Not inviting any say in the matter just comes across as selfish or at least thoughtless.

I am sorry, but what I read so-far I would be looking for more "competitive" games that have more balance to play against this guy, 40k is a bad choice because he will always leverage it to his advantage.

Whatever you do, just try to enjoy and have fun.

CaptainSuperglue wrote:
Well go the other way with it, honestly there is more to Imperial Guard than tanks, and then you might actually have a fun game instead of a 4 hour long argument, as much fun as being bloody minded is.

Typically I find when someone is rather controlling in this regard, springing ANYTHING unexpected on them will end in a 4 hour argument of being "cheap" and OP and anything that springs to mind.

How many infantry guard do you have? Blobs of fearless 30 men with orders can do some crazy things. Use ADLs, assassins, prists, commys and Inquisition.

Do not forget command squads (Orders) and having a Master of Ordinance can drop a few templates

Do you have inquisitor 'counts as' models? Ally them in and go crazy with the psychic powers yourself! Nobody does psychics quite like the imperial guard, you can have double his warp charges for about 1/3 the price if you make a good list.

Yeah, a few primaris psykers can ruin his day.

Shut down his psychic phase completely by turn 2 with some summoned pink horrors flooding the warp pool...

Model availability might be a problem here BUT the OP's avatar gives hope.

Beat him at his own game and show him why you hate playing psychics so much, when there are double his points in summoned demons on the table and no leman russes to be seen....

Now that is being bloody minded.

For extra lols tell him you're bringing a tank heavy army before hand, then say 'nar I was kidding, you said not to!' and watch his las cannons kill your 5 point per model men.

But now that is doing the bait and switch, the gloves would be off then.

I just have a problem of limiting vehicles with Imperial Guard, it is just blatantly unfair.
Any heavy choices, what is left?
Fast Attack: Cannot use walkers (usually want 3 so only 5 remember)? Really not much left here either unless you get cavalry out. Flyers allowed or is that a given not to use?
Elites: Largely garbage BUT you could deep strike in some 5 man Scions suicide squads with melta.
HQ: Use your tank choices here and field Pask just to make a point (Dance baby dance!).
Troops: Really? Transports are usually needed to at least protect the odd platoon squad.

Yes, there are some excellent ways to try to turn the tables but I suspect there will be much yelling and "next time" it will be "You get 1000 pts, I get 3000 and your are deployed in dangerous terrain with no cover save (quick-sand), no deep strike and I get first turn with no stealing the initiative.".

Bring all the tanks you like man, if he whines tell him to deal with it, Sounds to me he just wants an "epic movie marines curb stomping the little guardsmen" game. fun for him. and hell with the right rules maybe you could even have some fun with that (Maybe track down the movie marine rules and see if he's up to having some fun with those, layer your set up so your guardsmen return to the game table once destroyed after a turn or two, and make a game of "how long the space marines can hold out against the hoards" not something you'd wanna do with every game, but could be a fun thing to try once in awhile)


what it comes down too is, he as a SM player can easily match and deal with your tanks.

you as an IG player can ALSO deal with his psykers (ally in the anti-psyker assasin is one option) I mean IGs have access to a fair bit of psykic power if they so choose to use it.

so to my way of thinking these are not problems. the big problem, as I see it is stuff like his custom character etc. which is just absolutely mind bogglingly STUPID. particuklarly as not even some of the scariest SM characters in the offical game have straight 7 stats. I don't mind the idea of custom characters (although I'd argue that the intent with the default captain, etc with relics and customization is to allow you to make your own character) but not if they're like that.

Use the shadowsword...

...by sticking it up his exhaust port...

...sideways...

...with the worst paint job possible...

Bring in the shadowsword
Watch his face as you (potentially) 1 shot his home-brew character
Or play angry marines and call in the 'orbital strike cruiser' SD,AP2,apocalyptic mega blast,+1 to D table (1=2,3=4)

 djphranq wrote:
Use the shadowsword...
...by sticking it up his exhaust port...
...sideways...
...with the worst paint job possible...

I think that would be the "dip" method.

 jhe90 wrote:
Wonder if he will agree to proxy say a warlord titan ;-)

Even better, a homebrew Imperator. Keep it in reserve and bring it in turn 2. At this point reveal your glorious tinfoil Imperator outfit hidden under your clothes and proceed to climb on the table followed by "I forgo shootting phase and shall now assault. Time to use my stomp."

But in all seriousness, confront him. If he's a real friend he'll understand. Just be firm, dont give him the business but draw your line in the sand.

To the OP: in both the examples you have given, i would have taken that as a direct insult.

He enjoys winning and is stacking the odds in his favour by cheating. (making a custom character and NOT showing your opponent his stats and rules until the game is already underway)

You need a better friend who understands points costs.

FYI: There is a 'player finder' feature at the top of the 'find a game' sub-forum in 'general discussion' on the main forum page.

I'm in support of the "trade armies" idea. Especially since it sounds like he's your main opponent. Trading armies lets him see exactly why you might be inclined to make certain suggestions regarding the price or power of his homebrewed stuff. It also might give you a chance to understand new drawbacks that make him reluctant to implement such changes. "Oh wow. Now that I'm controlling this guy, I realize how vulnerable he is to small arms fire," or whatever.

To play devil's advocate, I also strongly dislike facing heavily mechanized forces. Unless you tailor to kill lots of tanks or play certain armies (which, to be fair, he does), mech spam basically says to your opponent, "Oh, no. All those models in your army without anti-tank guns basically don't get to do anything meaningful." Now that said, 3 or 4 guardsman tanks probably aren't crossing that line. Especially if one remembers that basic marines have krak grenades. >_>

I know a lot of people are anti-homebrew or pro-"pure" codex games, but a well done homebrew can add some cool, flavorful changes to the game and add a sense of ownership to one's army rules. And it's not like "pure" rules aren't prone to poor balance either. *That* said, it sounds like he really just wants to play a game where he has a huge advantage and gets to smash face, and a great cure for that is trading armies so you can show him just how much fun that is for the other person who spends 3+ hours moving models around the table.

EDIT: Wait, just read your post in the small games thread. How many points do you normally play at, Master of Ordinance? Because lots of tanks at low points *does* kind of neuter most armies.

SirDonlad wrote:To the OP: in both the examples you have given, i would have taken that as a direct insult.

He enjoys winning and is stacking the odds in his favour by cheating. (making a custom character and NOT showing your opponent his stats and rules until the game is already underway)

You need a better friend who understands points costs.

FYI: There is a 'player finder' feature at the top of the 'find a game' sub-forum in 'general discussion' on the main forum page.

There are other people at my club thankfully and I have made arrangements with two others in case.

commander dante wrote:Bring in the shadowsword
Watch his face as you (potentially) 1 shot his home-brew character
Or play angry marines and call in the 'orbital strike cruiser' SD,AP2,apocalyptic mega blast,+1 to D table (1=2,3=4)

Its in the 'If he brings yet another underpriced demigod' list and is priced at 1/2points.

BrianDavion wrote:Bring all the tanks you like man, if he whines tell him to deal with it, Sounds to me he just wants an "epic movie marines curb stomping the little guardsmen" game. fun for him. and hell with the right rules maybe you could even have some fun with that (Maybe track down the movie marine rules and see if he's up to having some fun with those, layer your set up so your guardsmen return to the game table once destroyed after a turn or two, and make a game of "how long the space marines can hold out against the hoards" not something you'd wanna do with every game, but could be a fun thing to try once in awhile)


what it comes down too is, he as a SM player can easily match and deal with your tanks.

you as an IG player can ALSO deal with his psykers (ally in the anti-psyker assasin is one option) I mean IGs have access to a fair bit of psykic power if they so choose to use it.

so to my way of thinking these are not problems. the big problem, as I see it is stuff like his custom character etc. which is just absolutely mind bogglingly STUPID. particuklarly as not even some of the scariest SM characters in the offical game have straight 7 stats. I don't mind the idea of custom characters (although I'd argue that the intent with the default captain, etc with relics and customization is to allow you to make your own character) but not if they're like that.

Im getting that assassin as soon as possible - however IG psykers are on the pricey side with the only one really affordable being the Astropath upgrade to the command squad.

Selym wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:

>He only specified Heavy Support Tanks, so bring a command tank and two escorts, a Thunderer and a Destroyer.
>Sod it, if he wants war, he gets war. bring many many tanks.
>Enter the Shadowsword.

It's a new formation:

Bring ten vehicles, get a Shadowsword for free.

Totes fair. If he complains, "tuff".

If only I had 10 tanks to bring... currently sitting at 2 Battletanks, an Eradicator, 2 Exterminators, a Thunderer and a Destroyer plus the Shadowsword.

DoomShakaLaka wrote:How 'bout this instead

You:2,000 points

Him:3,000 points



All infantry troop models you have gain the "send in the next wave!" rule where if the unit is destroyed you may place an identical unit( including upgrades) into reserves that automatically walk on your board edge next turn.


Victory can only be attained by capturing the fortification you control.



The Fortification is treated as an" superheavy" building with 12hps with a transport capacity of 25 and can add 4 heavy bolter sponsons for 20pts.



Half of his army must begin the game in reserves, and any flyers he has( if any) can only come in on turn 3.



Any SM homebrew characters have a max cap of ML3 and may only ever pick power from the Biomancy, Pyromancy, and Telekinesis tables , max T of 5 (if Independent Character) or 6 (if just a character). Max number of wounds allowed is 3. Invul save can be no greater than 4+


Primarch is only allowed if the entire army follows 30k rules and no other custom characters of is are on the battlefield.

This sounds a good idea and shall be sprung asap. There will be no flyers (thankfully) as he cant transport them and I have non.

Wyldhunt wrote:I'm in support of the "trade armies" idea. Especially since it sounds like he's your main opponent. Trading armies lets him see exactly why you might be inclined to make certain suggestions regarding the price or power of his homebrewed stuff. It also might give you a chance to understand new drawbacks that make him reluctant to implement such changes. "Oh wow. Now that I'm controlling this guy, I realize how vulnerable he is to small arms fire," or whatever.

To play devil's advocate, I also strongly dislike facing heavily mechanized forces. Unless you tailor to kill lots of tanks or play certain armies (which, to be fair, he does), mech spam basically says to your opponent, "Oh, no. All those models in your army without anti-tank guns basically don't get to do anything meaningful." Now that said, 3 or 4 guardsman tanks probably aren't crossing that line. Especially if one remembers that basic marines have krak grenades. >_>

I know a lot of people are anti-homebrew or pro-"pure" codex games, but a well done homebrew can add some cool, flavorful changes to the game and add a sense of ownership to one's army rules. And it's not like "pure" rules aren't prone to poor balance either. *That* said, it sounds like he really just wants to play a game where he has a huge advantage and gets to smash face, and a great cure for that is trading armies so you can show him just how much fun that is for the other person who spends 3+ hours moving models around the table.

EDIT: Wait, just read your post in the small games thread. How many points do you normally play at, Master of Ordinance? Because lots of tanks at low points *does* kind of neuter most armies.

My list in that game (which was against Grey Knights) consisted of a Command Tank (Battle Tank) an Eradicator and another Battle Tank, a Company Command Squad with an MOO and camo gear and a pair of Veteran Squads, each with a Heavy Bolter and Forward Sentries. It was a really close game and both of us enjoyed it.

My usual size these days is 1.5K to 2.5K, averaging out at 2K.



Im building my list, and will post it here soon.

OP: does the homebrew model have eternal warrior?

commander dante wrote:
OP: does the homebrew model have eternal warrior?

Yes, sadly. S: D was something that I had thought about.

 master of ordinance wrote:

commander dante wrote:
OP: does the homebrew model have eternal warrior?

Yes, sadly. S: D was something that I had thought about.

Eternal warrior doesnt effect S: D
Hmm
I got it!
Play skitarii
Have allies with CONCUSSIVE weapons (grav-guns ect)
Take the 'phase taser' relic
Concuss the beefcake homebrew model
Charge it with the phase taser
If you cause a wound, the model is instantly removed from play (he has to take an initative test, but he is I1 so auto fails)
Laugh and show him the rules
???
Profit

Or just use S: D and get lucky

Does the Imperial Guard REALLY need to be capped? I play Orks, and in the four games I've had this year against pure Guard lists (Including one with more Wyverns than you can count with one hand) I've ended up nearly tabling my foe.

As things stand now the Guard needs more help than handicaps.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
Does the Imperial Guard REALLY need to be capped? I play Orks, and in the four games I've had this year against pure Guard lists (Including one with more Wyverns than you can count with one hand) I've ended up nearly tabling my foe.

As things stand now the Guard needs more help than handicaps.

When an Ork player is saying your army needs help you know things really have got dire :(


Anyway, here is my list, including one Homebrew character (rules and fluff in spoilers)

Command troop

Darjeeling
Battletank
Artificer Hull
Extra Armour
Coaxial Heavy Stubber
Armoured track Guards
Camo Netting
Recovery Gear


Battle Tank
Artificer Hull
Coaxial Heavy Stubber
Armoured Track Guards
Camo netting
Recovery Gear
Pintle Mount

Eradicator
Artificer Hull
Coaxial Heavy Stubber
Armoured Track Guards
Camo netting
Recovery Gear
Extra Armour

Troop 1
Exterminator
Pintle mount
Veteran Crew
Recovery Gear

Exterminator
Pintle Mount
Veteran Crew
Recovery Gear

Assault Gun troop
Thunderer
Pintle Mount
Veteran Crew
Grenade Mesh
Camo Netting

Tank Destroyer Troop
Deimos Vindicator Destroyer
Pintle Mount
Camo Gear
(I know this is technically an SM unit but I am damned if I am paying 30 points more for less BS and less shots)

Command Section
MOO
MOF
Medic
Krak Grenades
Camo Gear

Section 1
Veterans
Heavy Bolter
Krak Grenades
Forward Sentries

Section 2
Veterans
Heavy Bolter
Krak Grenades
Forward Sentries

Total: 1596 (96 over, but it wont matter much)
this list (as you can probably tell) is themed around the British armed forces organisation during Normandy, 1944, with a hint of Germany thrown in for spice. The command section are Warlords Games Churchill VII's (with the Eradicator converted to a VIII) and the Infantry are Warlords British Infantry (apart from the command section whom are Perry Brothers Dads Army miniatures).

In addition to this I am thinking about preparing an 'Equaliser force' in case he wants to play his characters (I know he is bringing some of them, I am not sure which though) but dosnt want to increase the points cost of them. Am I fair in doing this?

The mission is an objectives one with Night Fighting in place. In addition we are allowed to pick 4 special rules for 4 units, but with no duplicates of the rule. (as he has a Landraider Terminus Ultra I think he will be taking that with Armour Bane)

You talked to him about his homebrew units being undercosted and he doesn't want to fix it?

Why do you play with this guy again?

Take the Leman Russ Rediculanator

Av15 all round (Precedent - Mighty Bulwarks)
HP 9
Has a 4++ on every face but rear
Immune to the special effects of melta, lance and haywire
Typhon seige cannon (st10 ap1 primary weapon ignores cover 7" blast) with co-axel autocannon
2 quad laser destroyer (2 tl st9 ap1 ordnance shots each) sponsoons
Command tank granting bs4 and the option to auto grant a guard order to ANY unit a turn, infanty, artillery or vehicles. These orders can be from the officers orders or the tank commander orders.
Warlord trait - gives every friendly unit within 18" rending and monster hunter/tank hunter.

300pts

If he wants to pay silly low amounts on homebrew stuff, well then, you also need a battle to 'check out' if this needs a points increase from 300pts right? Make a point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh forgot to mention - the rediculanator is a SH.

I think that Darjeeling girl will do, really. If that doesn't curbstomp anything in her path, nothing would

Play a Culexus Assassin when he wants to pull out 10 Levels of Psy mastery..., fun times ahead...

And a Vindicare, also fun...

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:
I think that Darjeeling girl will do, really. If that doesn't curbstomp anything in her path, nothing would

Actually during her playtest she proved to be really balanced, if maybe 10 points to cheap.... I should note that the tank is not free with her, you have to purchase the tank with those upgrades THEN buy her for it. Im not that big of an donkey-cave

I actually REALLY like that tank character.