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And thats my gripe. This is a game after all, I play it because I want to have some fun on my downtime from work and life, and sitting there watching my army get swept off the board before the second turn is not my idea of fun nor I would imagine anyone elses idea of fun.

If your idea fun comes out of taking away someone elses fun than you can kindly go feth yourself.

I am actually going to side with the OP on this one, but this may just be my personal bias talking. I know I'd be pretty pissed if I brought a fun list for a friendly game and end up going up agaisnt a host of Landraiders, a superheavy, and an AV 15 fortress with Macro Cannon.

Seems to me their list might not have been legal, but not sure depending on how the allies system played out.

2 Fortifications, 2 Lords of War (superheavies). If it was the forgeworld-ruled chaos knight, they are in the clear, if not, they would also have to worry about the ally matrix, and need to be more than 12 inches apart from the knight with the rest of the chaos forces.

Seems like an unfortunate game.

I was "that guy" two weeks back, when i showed up to do a friendly game with a buddy of mine at the LGS with 5 knights in 2000 points. I didnt tell him about it, and knew i was being a jerk, but it was all for fun, because i let him know next game i will tell him my -exact- list, and he will have a few days to tailor to beat it. Should be fun! Granted, this was with an old gaming friend, and i certainly wouldn't have done this against anyone else.

Makumba wrote:

I know a guy who brings one of those Superheavy land raiders to regular 2k games and it's tough but manageable. As for the macro cannon that's what all the drop melta and haywire I mentioned earlier is for

Good thing IG doesn't have haywire or melta that can deep strike.

Really? Tempestus scions just don't exist then?

Not 100% sure on legalities, but it looks more like "worst matchup possible" rather than "they brought the cheese". Your lists were quite well stocked! 4 Russ', 2 Wyverns, 2 fliers, and inquisitorial detachment alongside meltavets... anything other than a wall of AV14 or massed Flyrants/Belakor Daemons was going to be at least a solid game. You just happened to go against one of those two things. There are many other armies that would've eaten your opponents for LUNCH (drop-pod meltas, El"D"ar, Decurion, etc.).

Unless these guys were real jerks to play with (which doesn't sound to be the case, since no mention of it was made), then these were "those guys", but rather a couple guys who cleverly anticipated your area's meta. I'd make an assumption that your area has lots of Skatterbike Eldar and Plasma-Marines. Your own hefty amounts of AV14 would seem to also reflect that you believe AV14 to be proficient against your local meta. These guys have simply taken the next logical step.

To defeat them, you'll need more anti-tank. That means dropping the Russes, which are ill-equipped to deal with very heavy armour. You need high-strength, high-RoF weapons - more vet squads that can get in close with meltas, Vendettas, hordes of infantry where all the squads have meltas and melta-bombs. Your opponent's list would be dead against a true horde, as they lack the firepower to take down that many models.

The thing is... these changes are going to make you much less effective against most other things in your meta.

But anyways, the point is that these guys have definitely not brought out the cheese. You can probably request that they don't bring a Knight (because Super-Heavies in regular games tend not to be fun - I always prefer to let an opponent know if I'm bringing a Super-Heavy beforehand), but otherwise, AV14 wall is a thing, just like Flyrants, Decurions, and Drop Pod Marines are a thing.


EDIT: The meltagunners can take on the AV15 fortress pretty well. You only get +1 to the damage table instead of +2 due to Mighty Bulwark, but it's just 5HP, and any roll of 6 will insta-kill it. It's not easy to take down, and double-D shots are strong, but it's 500-something points, and unless going against a bunch of high-cost vehicles (again, you're the perfect army for them to kill), will rarely make its points back.

Kharne the Befriender wrote:
Found the vehicle in question


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cerberus tank hunter

Nah, it be this fella, The Typhon Siege Tank



It is S10 AP1 mega-blast. It is quite nasty, but hardly the most overpowered. Doubt it'd be the Cerberus which is better at killing itself and the occasional superheavy.

the_scotsman wrote:

Makumba wrote:

I know a guy who brings one of those Superheavy land raiders to regular 2k games and it's tough but manageable. As for the macro cannon that's what all the drop melta and haywire I mentioned earlier is for

Good thing IG doesn't have haywire or melta that can deep strike.

Really? Tempestus scions just don't exist then?

They don't, they are horrible high cost units that do nothing. And they do not have access to haywire.



To me it looks like two new players wanted to play a team game, their opponents knew that and tailored. It happened to me too once . Was my only trip to warhammer world when I was visiting my aunt. A dude first asked me what I played and then deployed 9 whirlwinds and 5 man squads with heavy bolters. He even asked me, if I had fun after the game.

Yup that's it, the typhon! So that was 3 mega blasts a turn onto my side of the board.

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
Yup that's it, the typhon! So that was 3 mega blasts a turn onto my side of the board.

Eh? 3 a turn? It only fires one 7" blast a turn. Either he was using a different tank, proxying the Typhon for something else or was bending the rules so much that spacetime must have been curved during that game...

That combined with the two blasts from the macro cannon finished up any armor I had left

I started with Dark Angels / Space Marines in late 2013 and a few months later, I played a game with a seasoned Tau player.
In a 2,000pts game, I recall myself bringing 2~3 units of deathwing, veterans with meltas in drop pods, 2 vindicators and some ravenwing.

He brought a few units of crisis suits and five riptides. 3 of them were 'normal' versions in the tau codex taking up elite slot.
The fourth one was an HQ riptide from farsight enclave supplement. And the last one was from forgeworld : the infamous R'varna, which primary weapon at that time had AP3 before receiving errata.
Needless to say, half of my army was decimated in first two turns without my models doing anything significant. Then my army was soon tabled.
That was certainly the most unpleasant 40K experience I had.

And nowadays the same player routinely boasts Exalted Court of House Terryn, consisted of five imperial knights with unique options.
The most perplexing feature being a Knight Errant getting access to interceptor special rule.
With thermal cannon, an additional missile launcher with 3 S8 AP3 missiles and a meltagun, the Errant usually obliterates two deep-striking units with meltas before they get to shoot.
Other knights allow friendly knights to re-roll 1's for their ion shield saves, or fire overwatch. To make things worse, all the knights become characters and add 1 to WS and BS.
This makes their shooting even more lethal and increases immunity to melta-bomb carrying sergeants.
The formation simply counters almost every possible way to deal with imperial knights that I know of.

Playing games just gets more depressing and fatiguing.

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
And thats my gripe. This is a game after all, I play it because I want to have some fun on my downtime from work and life, and sitting there watching my army get swept off the board before the second turn is not my idea of fun nor I would imagine anyone elses idea of fun.

If your idea fun comes out of taking away someone elses fun than you can kindly go feth yourself.

Hypothetically speaking, would you have fun if you brought nothing but lasguns and I brought a lot of troops in Rhinos? Probably not because you would not be able to do anything but remove models from the table since lasguns can't hurt Rhinos. There is no answer to whether this is my fault or yours. On one hand, it's your fault for not bringing something that can deal with it. On the other hand, if I bring a lot of "powerful" stuff you can't handle, I'm forcing you to buy stuff aswell in order to have a fair fight.

It seems to me that the game was not poorly planned out and the only thing you agreed on was a time, a place and a points value. You got the short end of the stick in this case, but that does not exempt you from blame.
Why do I think this is the case? Because one of the guys even felt bad for what happened, you specifically said so.

If I plan a game with someone and all we agree on is a points value, we're eventually going to end up with a situation where I bring a highly competitive list and the other guy puts a sub-par list on the table for gaks and giggles (or the other way around). It might not happen the first time nor the second, but eventually it's going to happen and it's not going to be a fun experience for either of us. And we'll know that it was both our faults for not asking the other person what they'd expect from the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sagittarii Orientalis wrote:

Playing games just gets more depressing and fatiguing.

And have you told him (in a normal way) that you do not enjoy playing anymore versus him?
Have you ever made agreements beforehand about having a casual or competitive game? If you did and agreed on the latter, I think you've nothing to complain about because you agreed to fight his best.
Have you told him that with your current models you see no way of dealing with his army and you're not willing to put hundreds of dollars into expanding your army so it can?

If you did and he insists on using that list, you should stop playing him, he's clearly a WAAC player. I get that you want to play with the models you bought (and it's unfair of people to ask you to never put them on the table) but I would not put a list on the table time and time again against someone who told me he did not enjoy those games. I would not want to play anyone for which"fun for everyone" is not the top priority unless at a tournament.

It seems to me that the game was not poorly planned out and the only thing you agreed on was a time, a place and a points value. You got the short end of the stick in this case, but that does not exempt you from blame.
Why do I think this is the case? Because one of the guys even felt bad for what happened, you specifically said so.

When you have no fun, because someone with a bigger collection tailors versus what you have, you are somehow the blame ? Are you for real dude. And the feeling bad, oh how awesome, he felt bad after the game, but I guess he had fun while stomping them durning the game. I could believe in him realy feeling bad, if he said it durning the game.But after, it means nothing.

On the other hand, if I bring a lot of "powerful" stuff you can't handle, I'm forcing you to buy stuff aswell in order to have a fair fight.

Good thing IG doesn't have any powerful option, that kind of a fixs the problem of being forced to buy new stuff. Even if in no way does it help to have fun games.

Makumba wrote:

It seems to me that the game was not poorly planned out and the only thing you agreed on was a time, a place and a points value. You got the short end of the stick in this case, but that does not exempt you from blame.
Why do I think this is the case? Because one of the guys even felt bad for what happened, you specifically said so.

When you have no fun, because someone with a bigger collection tailors versus what you have, you are somehow the blame ? Are you for real dude.

Both parties are at fault. Use your damn pie hole for something other than Mountain Dew and Cheetos. That guy is not a mind reader, and neither are you.

Both sides need to agree:

1. How many points?
2. Nut-stomping competitive, fluffy, somewhere in between?
3. Super Heavies, yes or no?
4. Forge World, yes or no?
5. Maelstrom mission, basic missions, other?
6. Proxies OK?
7. Bound or unbound?

Then you play. However, if you agreed on one thing and he brought something that you didn't agree on, feel free to call him TFG.

there is this guy locally who constantly cheeses out his army, and then shoots down any claim of cheesy by quoting something along the lines of "well, lascannons will beat these guys up!" Sure, lascannons would help against your space wolf/grey knight list with 1 or 2 fire raptors, 20 purifiers in 2 drop pods, space wolf flier, and 10+ psychic dice. Also, he wears making people quit the game like badges of honor, including using net lists against new players, and people who are just getting back into the hobby.

 Verviedi wrote:
I'm a bit disturbed that people consider AdMech players TFG on basis of their army choice.

The Convocation monobuild isn't helping either -_-

AdMech + Drop Pod taxis is TFG.

AdMech itself is fine.

 Brennonjw wrote:
Also, he wears making people quit the game like badges of honor, including using net lists against new players, and people who are just getting back into the hobby.

Sounds like this dude needs to get jumped in the parking lot and have his models stuffed up his

Makumba wrote:

It seems to me that the game was not poorly planned out and the only thing you agreed on was a time, a place and a points value. You got the short end of the stick in this case, but that does not exempt you from blame.
Why do I think this is the case? Because one of the guys even felt bad for what happened, you specifically said so.

When you have no fun, because someone with a bigger collection tailors versus what you have, you are somehow the blame ? Are you for real dude. And the feeling bad, oh how awesome, he felt bad after the game, but I guess he had fun while stomping them durning the game. I could believe in him realy feeling bad, if he said it durning the game.But after, it means nothing.

I cannot believe you hit the "submit" button after tearing something out of context so hard, then quoting some of the context (which completely debunks anything you said) yourself after ranting. That genuinely made me laugh.

But I'll repeat myself in the hope that you'll read it for what it is this time.
No one is to blame when stuff like that happens. His opponent could not have know that he would bring a list incapable of dealing with what he brought, that's why you communicate beforehand. Sure, he probably knew that what he brought was pretty strong, but there's a lot of things that COULD have dealt with a Typhon and an Aquila strongpoint rather easily and it's not his fault that he didn't face that. Nor is it OP's fault for not bringing it.

This is just something they both have to learn from.

Makumba wrote:

On the other hand, if I bring a lot of "powerful" stuff you can't handle, I'm forcing you to buy stuff aswell in order to have a fair fight.

Good thing IG doesn't have any powerful option, that kind of a fixs the problem of being forced to buy new stuff. Even if in no way does it help to have fun games.

This really has no relevance to the topic at hand.
I explained why I think no one is to blame and what you quoted here is only half of what I said. I'd appreciate it if you stopped taking quotes out of context.

Sagittarii Orientalis,
I do not recall the Farsight Enclaves having a Riptide as a Head Quarter choice.

sounds like you didnt prepare to face av14 spam... which happens from time to time... 40k is very rock paper scissors sometimes. i dont think this makes him TFG... maybe more on the waac side.

TFG is usually just very hard to get to compromise on anything, from rules laywering, arguing dice rolls, and general a$$baggery, or in other words not nice people. bringing a strong list that counters your meta does not a TFG make.

i saw that you mentioned he still plays this list, thats his prerogative, people will stop playing him as i assume you have and he will change or stop playing.

JinxDragon wrote:
Sagittarii Orientalis,
I do not recall the Farsight Enclaves having a Riptide as a Head Quarter choice.

They do, sort of. He's part of "the eight", a replacement for the farsight bodyguard team. It's a mix of special characters that don't take up a HQ slot. One of them is a riptide character called O'vesa

Which is incapable of being chosen for a Head Quarter Role, as it requires Farsight to be part of the Detachment and the Warlord of your Army.

Haruspex wrote:
Unfortunately "that guy" is currently anybody who plays space marines ... marines outnumber them because you didn't have to spend points on transport

Not everyone takes a Battle Company, dude. 10 free Razorbacks sounds nice on paper, but what are they going to do against a true horde or flyer spam? That's right, nothing. You can't build a real TAC list with a Battle Company at 1000-1850 points in this player's opinion.

My biggest experience with "that guy" would be a Dark Eldar player I faced during 3rd edition at the old GW in Springfield, VA. Literally nobody played Dark Eldar, so no one else in the store knew what his army could do. I'm about 90% sure he made up a lot of numbers. He also did the old "long 6 inch" move trick, and would leave his tape measure extended 24" on his table edge so he could visually guesstimate various distances without technically pre-measuring (pre-measuring used to be illegal). He'd also roll his dice extremely fast, announce quickly how many rolls were successful, and scoop them up before you could verify it. I was about 14 at the time and he was probably in his 30s, so I didn't know how to react to his behavior except to accept it.

Other than that, I once walked into a new-to-me FLGS (Atomic Games in Golden, CO) and announced I had a 1500 point list of "shooty, fluffy" Space Marines back in 5th editon. Another player offered to play a game with his Chaos Daemons list. Another player in the store actually said out loud, "dude, don't bring out your Daemons, he'll never come back." I thought he was being hyperbolic, but... the guy had a list with mostly Nurgle daemons utilizing a combination of characters that ended up letting the guy re-roll invulnerable saves and get a Feel No Pain roll on top of that. He tabled me by turn 4 and I had killed a grand total of 3 of his models. His friend was right, I didn't ever go back to that store.

. His opponent could not have know that he would bring a list incapable of dealing with what he brought, that's why you communicate beforehand

Someone is not going to know what a new IG player is going to have? please, the only good thing in the codex is wyverns. The whole book struggles vs high AV targets and super heavies. So knowing they would face a new IG player, the opponents did what? Took 2 super heavies, a kind of a super heavy in the form of an av15 tower and land raider spam. Not knowing what the other person would bring, what is next, not expecting a GK player to bring NDKS and termintors ?
The IG codex is not eldar it doesn't have a million ways to start and play an army, everyone knows what an IG player is going to have in theirs. Even if someone plays where FW is allowed, this only means that 9 artilery pices will be taken.

10 free Razorbacks sounds nice on paper, but what are they going to do against a true horde or flyer spam?

Play time. Moving and adjusting the movment of 10 tanks and 100+models can take good 40+min, if they go second the game can end on turn 1 with the sm player sitting on the objectives.

Why would you end a game because of time?

 j31c3n wrote:
Why would you end a game because of time?

Because you're playing in a timed event like a tournament.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 j31c3n wrote:
Why would you end a game because of time?

Because you're playing in a timed event like a tournament.

Sounds horrid. Why would you ever do that? This game is for playing over the course of a lazy afternoon with your buddies or the folks down at the FLGS.

You'd think at some point someone would realize that on Dakkadakka, in any thread where certain armies are at least partially the subject, the professional Army Whiners will show up, and you can't actually talk or discuss anything with them, because they don't hear anything besides their rallying cry. "My army is useless and nothing in it is good and everything in every other army is broken and OP."

Say that, you'll get a hearty "hear hear", say anything else and you're just going to have to listen to them for a while longer.

 Resin Glazed Guardsman wrote:
Yup that's it, the typhon! So that was 3 mega blasts a turn onto my side of the board.

Sorry dude, new player or not but you Must learn the rules.
And your Telling total bs.
First you Are " very sure its the cerberus" you Even Post a picture of it.
I Point to You that it is bot strength D.
Then now its the typhon.
Realy?

Also

For the Last Time.

The aquila Bunker is.
Strength D AP 1, 5 inch blast.
NOT megablast

Not Megablast, so No way this is killing all your stuff that fast.

 j31c3n wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 j31c3n wrote:
Why would you end a game because of time?

Because you're playing in a timed event like a tournament.

Sounds horrid. Why would you ever do that? This game is for playing over the course of a lazy afternoon with your buddies or the folks down at the FLGS.

Nothing int he rules points at that . And more then a few stores have a time limit for games. So they can avoid two people taking a table for the whole evening. So 1 hour per 2 players are normal.