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JinxDragon wrote:as they fail to adapt to new technology

Curiously, GW published a note regarding the 'threat' of 3d printing... saying the technology is still too primitive they could launch their own 3d printer in the future. Imagine the price of said 3d printer of theirs (and the Citadel® Resin for 3D Printing)...

Once apoun a time,

GW hates you.

The end.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Massawyrm wrote:
Anyone who thinks Hasbro would do better than GW knows absolutely nothing about how badly Hasbro hamstrung WotC behind the scenes and permanently crippled the D&D brand.

The current edition of D&D has been on multiple best sellers lists for a year. It is widely described as one of the best versions of the game available. So...there's that. Under Hasbro, Magic the Gathering has boomed into its highest sales ever.

only after the previous edition was so god awful that their sales put them on the verge of killing D&D entirely and they came to the community on their knees asking what they wanted to make them happy after years of degrading ignorance.


fact is we would be in the same mess we are in now but maybe just maybe there would be a chance to turn around, games workshop i feel has thunderbirds syndrome (as i call it). gerry anderson never wanted to do tv or film work with puppets you see, he did so because its what paid the bills but gradually he moved away from cartoon puppets using low budget acting to humanlike marionettes and big name voices. until he peaked at thunderbirds and went down hill from there with captain scarlet and the new adventures of captain scarlet when he came back to the studios in the early 2000's.

i am convinced that games workshop never wanted to make a game of 40k or fantasy for that matter and wanted instead to make models only. however at the time they couldnt convince anyone to give them deals to make models or loans/investments to cover initial costs so they instead made a game. a great damn game and ever since then theyve slowly been peeling the game off the equation seeing it as a cancer to their buisness that need to be removed. and it is my opinion that one day the games will simply cease to exist

 ionusx wrote:

i am convinced that games workshop never wanted to make a game of 40k or fantasy for that matter and wanted instead to make models only. however at the time they couldnt convince anyone to give them deals to make models or loans/investments to cover initial costs so they instead made a game. a great damn game and ever since then theyve slowly been peeling the game off the equation seeing it as a cancer to their buisness that need to be removed. and it is my opinion that one day the games will simply cease to exist

I hope they kill off the games soon. Then they'll jack up the prices of all their products, drive all their customers away, and their entire product line will die. HARD.
Maybe then they'll pull a THQ and all of their IPs will be sold to whoever buys it.
When it comes to GW, things will have to get worse before they get better.

 Vector Strike wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:as they fail to adapt to new technology

Curiously, GW published a note regarding the 'threat' of 3d printing... saying the technology is still too primitive they could launch their own 3d printer in the future. Imagine the price of said 3d printer of theirs (and the Citadel® Resin for 3D Printing)...

3d Printing will bite them in the ass. The tech is far more advanced then they are willing to admit, it's just not affordable for your average user at this moment. The cheapest printer at my work is $15,000 but the level of fine detail it can print is amazing.

 Vector Strike wrote:

Curiously, GW published a note regarding the 'threat' of 3d printing... saying the technology is still too primitive they could launch their own 3d printer in the future. Imagine the price of said 3d printer of theirs (and the Citadel® Resin for 3D Printing)...

I have doubts that they will ever embrace 3D printers, aside from adding a clause to their Intellectual Property page that states 'don't do this' and trying to take down sites that have printer schematics of their Models.
I've also seen some very beautifully 3D printed Warhammer 40k models, so the technology already exists for those who know how to use it properly, but that line on their Intellectual Property page still exists.
Still curious what they said on the matter, can you link to this note for me?

In any case, I was referring another technological advances that they regularly fail to embrace over the last decade: Computers. Their Business Model is written with the misconception that the best 'social experience' possible is directly with another individual in a physical location, even though the vast majority of social interactions are now done through mobile devices and computers. It even contains a line stating their games are not played 'with a screen,' and somehow believe this will lead to increased sales and 'makes good business sense.' I, for one, can not fathom how cutting yourself out of the largest technological advancement in humanity since agriculture is in any way 'good business sense' and wonder if their Business Model was last updated in the 1990's because of this mentality!

The only thing they seem willing to do is to 'rent the license' to third party companies, and often do so with little regard as to what said companies end product will be. I find this to be quite disturbing as it has led to very poorly executed games carrying the Warhammer 40k brand, though a few have actually managed to shine. However, with every release of a ***** mobile or flash game there is damage done to the brand itself, so Game Workshop really does need to have more direct control then simply being the one holding the intellectual property rights. Sadly, I foresee them becoming more and more reluctant to design 'for a screen' with every poorly executed computer game as they further justify their anti-screen mentality.

JinxDragon wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:

Curiously, GW published a note regarding the 'threat' of 3d printing... saying the technology is still too primitive they could launch their own 3d printer in the future. Imagine the price of said 3d printer of theirs (and the Citadel® Resin for 3D Printing)...

I have doubts that they will ever embrace 3D printers, aside from adding a clause to their Intellectual Property page that states 'don't do this' and trying to take down sites that have printer schematics of their Models.
I've also seen some very beautifully 3D printed Warhammer 40k models, so the technology already exists for those who know how to use it properly, but that line on their Intellectual Property page still exists.
Still curious what they said on the matter, can you link to this note for me?

In any case, I was referring another technological advances that they regularly fail to embrace over the last decade: Computers. Their Business Model is written with the misconception that the best 'social experience' possible is directly with another individual in a physical location, even though the vast majority of social interactions are now done through mobile devices and computers. It even contains a line stating their games are not played 'with a screen,' and somehow believe this will lead to increased sales and 'makes good business sense.' I, for one, can not fathom how cutting yourself out of the largest technological advancement in humanity since agriculture is in any way 'good business sense' and wonder if their Business Model was last updated in the 1990's because of this mentality!

The only thing they seem willing to do is to 'rent the license' to third party companies, and often do so with little regard as to what said companies end product will be. I find this to be quite disturbing as it has led to very poorly executed games carrying the Warhammer 40k brand, though a few have actually managed to shine. However, with every release of a ***** mobile or flash game there is damage done to the brand itself, so Game Workshop really does need to have more direct control then simply being the one holding the intellectual property rights. Sadly, I foresee them becoming more and more reluctant to design 'for a screen' with every poorly executed computer game as they further justify their anti-screen mentality.

How much do you think the actual licence costs?
Could I buy it for a "flash game" and make a crappy, newgrounds quality flash?
I'm talking underbelly here not Egoraptor or Zone.
At the very least I would get to see how much they maintain QA with their licence.

Don't know, likely in the low seven figures with intellectual property this recognized, but clearly the 'flip' is worth it if you sell that re-skinned mobile game at $10 a pop.

Think TotalBiscuit can sum up the problem better then I:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGXsOorkgpg

JinxDragon wrote:

Still curious what they said on the matter, can you link to this note for me?

here, first comment:
http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/10/31/redditor-3d-prints-warhammer-40k-army/

If GW really cared about the game part of the hobby, they would've released a virtual TT game (akin to vassal) as close as possible to the real life thing and with updated rules. Just like Magic does with its virtual games.

Because, from their skewed point of view, they have no incentive to make their game function.

As has been said above, GW/Citadel think of themselves as a miniatures company first and a game company second. So, they will spend more money and time on miniatures than on the game that's played with those miniatures.

SG

EDIT: This is why i wish they'd give the actual game of Warhammer (AoS, 30K, and 40K) over to Fantasy Flight or WizKids... maybe Wizards of the Coast, but Wizards just doesn't have the experience with miniature games that Fantasy Flight and WizKids do. I think that FF or WizKids could come up with far better rules than GW does. Make sure the only miniatures that can be used are from GW and FW, but another company with a longer and better track record of writing rules for miniature games should take over the actual game.

IMHO

1. They are not a game company. In thier own words on the shareholder mission statement. Seach Game Workshop investor relations and see the mission statement for yourself.

2. They are also against compettive play which FAQ's are primarily (not always) to help explain conflicts in the compettive gaming scene. Old "letter"/editorial by Jarvis himself, explaining he never uses points or force organization and that take away from the fun of the game. Also, a current Jarvis blurp during the AOS release, saying the samething in a smaller format. Sorry, no links and I'm not wasting my time searching for them they are here on dakka somewhere, as another dakkanaught was kind enought to post them about a month ago.

3. They don't care, it's a beer and pretzles game to them to be shared by close friends, they have no consept of playing with a compete stranger, and the need for a set of rules that functions correctly to create a fair, smooth game.

4. It is easier, in thier eyes, to release a new rules book every 2-4 years, with the same crappy effort as before. Or even less effort.

5. seriously its a "fun" game right? When problems arise that you are supposed to work it out with a hand shake or die roll. They have no clue to human behavior. While, I would do this with a close friend I am less incline to do this with a stranger I may feel is taking advantage of a RAI/RAW situation. Why, human behavior like trust, desire to win, etc

They say they aren't a game or rule company
But then they have no problem producing Books, supplements, 3 volume Basic rule books, campaign books, and all the collector's editions of those!

Look at the IK. They wanted to push the rules out so bad they just put it into it's own codex instead of just making the rules in a White Dwarf. After a few more models came out they could of sold the rules for them then.

Not to mention all the BRB that lasted 2 years before needing to be replaced, along with Eldar and it's supplement.

GW says they don't make rules, but honestly they've been pushing so many rules out I don't see how they can justify the claim.

Same way they can think that doing no market research is something to be proud of.

GW's dark side seems to pretty much be brain-dead.

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity.

GW is frankly run by morons who have zero clue how to run a business. They're looking to make money, but they have zero clue how you actually do that in the modern world and can't see beyond a year. Because that would actually take effort on their part. They're sitting on dozens of IP's that are each individually freaking gold mines, they're just morons on how you actually would take advantage of it.

The rules are guidelines, suggestions on how to play the unit. You're free to discard them and make up whatever rules you want about the game and play it your way.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
They say they aren't a game or rule company
But then they have no problem producing Books, supplements, 3 volume Basic rule books, campaign books, and all the collector's editions of those!

Look at the IK. They wanted to push the rules out so bad they just put it into it's own codex instead of just making the rules in a White Dwarf. After a few more models came out they could of sold the rules for them then.

Not to mention all the BRB that lasted 2 years before needing to be replaced, along with Eldar and it's supplement.

GW says they don't make rules, but honestly they've been pushing so many rules out I don't see how they can justify the claim.

We're only pointing out what they said in thier own words, and we agree it doesn't make sense. In thier own word the rules and hobby centers are there to support the sales of finly crafted miniatures and models

I was just saying that for a company that claims to not be about rules, they spent a lot of effort to rake in as much money from rules as fast as possible while doing nothing to increase the actual quality.

I almost feel bad for people that bought special editions to books and supplements that are rendered useless in short order.

One thing that really bothers me is going to hardback. If the rules aren't important, why are they putting so much effort into it?
And for that matter, why? The books apparently won't need to last nearly as long as before yet they tried making it look as if they'd be more durable.

I'm really glad that my Tau codex and FSE supplement have managed to endure the test of time and they will look pristine in the trashcan since that's how much value they will have in the next month or so.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I was just saying that for a company that claims to not be about rules, they spent a lot of effort to rake in as much money from rules as fast as possible while doing nothing to increase the actual quality.

I almost feel bad for people that bought special editions to books and supplements that are rendered useless in short order.

One thing that really bothers me is going to hardback. If the rules aren't important, why are they putting so much effort into it?
And for that matter, why? The books apparently won't need to last nearly as long as before yet they tried making it look as if they'd be more durable.

I'm really glad that my Tau codex and FSE supplement have managed to endure the test of time and they will look pristine in the trashcan since that's how much value they will have in the next month or so.

They put a lot of effort into the books, but not really as rules devices, but as "collectors" pieces, pretty things that make people go "ooh" and "ahh", another pretty thing to put on the collection shelf. They've got lots of pretty pictures and color and the like, and that's what they think their customers want, when many, if not most, would be fine with the 3E era paperback books or PDF's.

I for one would. I'd take a cheap paperback any day.
I just want the layout to actually make sense and not require flipping from middle to back multiple times because someone wanted to stuff it full of pictures right between rule sections.

It might just be me, but does anyone actually collect these? Like they care about having outdated rules for older editions?
I know some people still play with the old books and rules, but I can't understand why anyone would collect them.

I'd take PDF's or $20 paperback books any day of the week.

I greatly dislike the hardback books for multiple reasons.

First and foremost, price, $50 for a book is irritating, especially one that's only good 18-24 months, and that is half the size or less of comparably priced hardback color books from other companies.

Then there's the weight, I used to carry every legal codex around in my game bag so I'd always have rules for anyone that needed them and could always reference something myself, but they just weigh too damn much to do that anymore.

Also, I'm just not a fan of what they put in the new books. They don't read very well, their writing quality is terrible. If I'm going to re-read 40k books for fun, it's going to be older stuff, usually pre-5E. The newer art also looks more akin to something from Blizzard or League of Legends, than that classic 40k feel that got me into the game.

As a total package, the new hardcover books just don't do it for me.

Last thing i bought from them was 2 boxes of Skitarri, a box of Sicarians and the Skitarri and Ad Mech Codexes. Every other GW mini ive gotten is from Ebay recently.

Also i agree on the writing quality, my 4e Tyranid book read great, my Skitarri book was kinda disappointing, though it was leagues better than my Ork dex.

Last thing I bought from GW was right after 7th hit I bought up a box of the Wraith host set for the Eldar army I was making. I really wanted to make a full Wraith army and was really excited.

I can't even bring myself to finish making them after what the new codex did. There is no way I could ever feel decent putting those things on the board.

Why do anything when you can make the players fix it for you.

 Desubot wrote:
Why do anything when you can make the players fix it for you.

If only there were a universally accepted 'fixed' version of the game everyone could play by!

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Last thing I bought from GW was right after 7th hit I bought up a box of the Wraith host set for the Eldar army I was making. I really wanted to make a full Wraith army and was really excited.

I can't even bring myself to finish making them after what the new codex did. There is no way I could ever feel decent putting those things on the board.

Im with ya on this, thankfully i didnt buy any, but if i ever actually ran Eldar it would have been a, Iyanden list, because i thought the Wraithguard where sweet. Now i cant do that because i would feel like a terrible person.

 Vector Strike wrote:

If GW really cared about the game part of the hobby, they would've released a virtual TT game (akin to vassal) as close as possible to the real life thing and with updated rules. Just like Magic does with its virtual games.

The link just 404's for me....

Still, a Virtual Table Top is really just all I want at this point, though with far better production values as it would be coming from an actual studio instead of being 'fan made.'

addendum:
Well this just ate a massive post that took me almost an hour to write and edit, highlighting all the ways Game Workshop could make money off a virtual table top game.
I was really proud of the 'Now I am off to buy more hats from Valve' closing line....

I might re-write it tomorrow but for now I will leave a To Long, Didn't read version:
People are more willing to pay for 'cheap' virtual media then they are willing to pay for 'over-priced' physical media... to the point they end up spending far more on the virtual property then ever would on the physical!
This has been proven time and time again by such a large number of 'free to play' games that it is starting to become the 'standard' Business Model, as much as I would like it to be otherwise.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I for one would. I'd take a cheap paperback any day.

It might just be me, but does anyone actually collect these? Like they care about having outdated rules for older editions?
I know some people still play with the old books and rules, but I can't understand why anyone would collect them.

Why do people collect coins that they can't spend on anything? Stamps that are not usable in their country? Comic books whose story will never change no matter how many times you read them?

MarsNZ wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I for one would. I'd take a cheap paperback any day.

It might just be me, but does anyone actually collect these? Like they care about having outdated rules for older editions?
I know some people still play with the old books and rules, but I can't understand why anyone would collect them.

Why do people collect coins that they can't spend on anything? Stamps that are not usable in their country? Comic books whose story will never change no matter how many times you read them?

easier to transport then other art stuff when you have to flee and their price rises in general. GW stuff loses value the very second it is bought.

 skoffs wrote:
As a Necron player, it's frustrating not having ANY current official resource available to address rules conflicts.
I remember reading somewhere that FW were going to be releasing an update to the Dark Harvest to bring it in line with the current edition rules and Necron codex, but obviously that must have been false.

What happened?
There was a time fairly recently when GW were releasing new FAQs pretty frequently.
Why did they suddenly dry up?
Why did they even start just straight up removing FAQs from the errata page?

If you recall, GW used to have pretty weak Erratas/FAQs up until 2010 (or was it 2011) when they suddenly became much better, much more comprehensive so that unofficial FAQs prevalent until then disappeared as they were no longer needed.
Now recently, the FAQs became much smaller, and then disappeared altogether.

It is not hard to deduce what happened: they hired a new guy to handle their FAQs/Erratas, he did a bang-up job, then he was fired.

Why? Most probably, some consultant hired to see where GW could make further cuts looked at him and said: "Why do you have one guy hired solely to make erratas? That is a huge waste. Also, such long documents fixing your errors make it look like your products are poorly done. Get rid of him."

Pure speculation, but that is how I imagine it happened.