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chaos0xomega wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I'm with Dman here. It's easy to alpha strike that thing off of the board with it being 3+ and T6. Maybe it'll get some buffs with the Tau Decurion formation?

Or you bubble wrap it with infantry? Seriously kroot are what, 6 pts a model? 180 pts gets you a nice thick furry ball of bubble wrap thatll make it pretty hard for anyone to get too close.

Bubble wrap will only get you so far with a T6 creature of that size.

1- This thing will rarely get alpha strike-ed off the table in competitive play. You can keep it in reserves, walk it on 12" and fire all of its weapons....Then the opponent can try and hurt it. If your opponent has an alpha strike army, keep it in reserves, especially if they are going first. Problem solved.

2- We don't know what drones this thing can take, there could also be new drones.

3- It can take 3 support systems. We don't know what new support systems there are, but if it can take signature systems, or a shield generator it has easy access to a 4++, and maybe a 2+ save. If it gets access to stealth, you can sit this in cover for a 3++ or 4++.

T6 8 wounds 3+/4++ FNP is not a joke.

4- Incase anyone did not read the special, at the start of shooting it can anchor itself (gives up stomping attacks, and movement) and can make a second shooting attack after the first. So yeah it fires its guns as per a normal shooting phase...then shoots again.

In the GRAV heavy tournament scene you might want 3+ over a 2+ save. Just saying.

Anyways, put it in reserves versus alpha strike armies, it walks on 12" shooting phase you anchor it, it fires everything it can, then fires everything it can again. It can split fire per GC rules, which can potentially eliminate many threats to itself...

There's a delay from when you anchor it. It states that in the subsequent shooting phase of the next player turn.... so you can't walk on and drop it's massive dakka payload.

Sheit27 wrote:
I'm not really seeing when I'd ever want to spend 360 points on this when for 370 I can get 2 riptides with IA's that do almost the same firepower and have better armor and mobility.

Unless Riptides have gone up

DirtyDeeds wrote:
There's a delay from when you anchor it. It states that in the subsequent shooting phase of the next player turn.... so you can't walk on and drop it's massive dakka payload.

you are correct, hard to read the txt on that leak

regardless you can walk on and fire, anchor self. Given the firepower you can eliminate some threats to it the turn it arrives. Then your opponent is in the situation where they have to commit to killing it, or move away, or suffer being shot by it twice per shooting phase its anchored.

Oh now my NDK will have trouble choosing to gatling this or riptide.Not even remotely close to eldar plus it looks horrid

 the Signless wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Its hardly garbage. Its an artillery platform, it will be shooting from across the table with relative impunity.

drop pod army's.? Ad-meh.? Eldar.? Necrons.? Will all destroy this thing. Honestly it should have a 2+ save

Drop pod armies destroy gunlines. That is the rock-paper-scissors nature of 40k, not the fault of the model. Good deployment tactics (bubblewrap) can help negate some of the damage done by drop pod armies and protect help preserve this model so that it can retaliate. Eldar destroy almost everything in 40k at the moment except for the cheesiest of cheeses, so no surprise there. How do necrons destroy this? I really am not sure how that happens.

I agree that this should have a 2+ armour save. It is a giant suit of armour. Except for a tiny guy somewhere in there, it is all armour.

So its a giant suit of walking armour - and its not a Walker because............

Because if it was a AV13 walker no one would buy it.

Its actually pretty well balanced, hopefully this is a hint that the dex wont be just full of mozz.

The suit will be good as a turret, and definitely backs up a gun line. The D shot is interesting though. Only a 10" range...I don't see that being used too often. Maybe to fire overwatch. (Can it work that way?)

...It's the pattern. GW has been making big tau suits MCs and GCs. I doubt that will chage any time soon. Especially as how gak walkers are right now.

Because somewhere along the way someone erased the dotted line that separated MC/GC and Walkers/SHWalkers

The conversation has been done to death. For every example of why a MC should be a walker there are just as many examples of walkers that should be MC.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Because if it was a AV13 walker no one would buy it.

[looks at gorkanaut on the shelf] or just never play with it.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Because somewhere along the way someone erased the dotted line that separated MC/GC and Walkers/SHWalkers

The conversation has been done to death. For every example of why a MC should be a walker there are just as many examples of walkers that should be MC.

Then people should not use fluff to justify it having a 2+ armour save and ignore that at a walking suit of armour is a........... Walker

blaktoof wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Because if it was a AV13 walker no one would buy it.

[looks at gorkanaut on the shelf] or just never play with it.

I know your pain. *Looks at Baneblade on shelf*

 Mr Morden wrote:

Then people should not use fluff to justify it having a 2+ armour save and ignore that at a walking suit of armour is a........... Walker

Edit because I misread the statement.
There are many other examples of "walking suits of armor" on both sides of the issue. The Dinobots are all vehicles, the Tau have walkers, the Dreadknight is a MC, the Wraithlord is a MC while the Wraithknight is a GC and then the Eldar titans go to being walkers.

It doesn't make sense. It never will. It hasn't made sense in a long time. The Riptide made sense. The pilot plugs into the suit and it moves fluidly. If it were to be a walker then the Crisis suits would make more sense being made into walkers as well.

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
Its actually pretty well balanced, hopefully this is a hint that the dex wont be just full of mozz.

The suit will be good as a turret, and definitely backs up a gun line. The D shot is interesting though. Only a 10" range...I don't see that being used too often. Maybe to fire overwatch. (Can it work that way?)

Unless it has some special rule allowing it to fire Overwatch, no it cannot. Gargantuan Creatures cannot fire Overwatch.

Honestly, the D shot at 10 inches? The way I look at it, it's intended for use against things like FMCs or Flyers coming in hot--assuming this thing can get EWO/VT.

Not OP? Must be garbage there is no in-between

It looks fine

Ohhhh, ok. I don't yet own a GMC so I didn't realize that. Well that puts a damper on things.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Sheit27 wrote:
I'm not really seeing when I'd ever want to spend 360 points on this when for 370 I can get 2 riptides with IA's that do almost the same firepower and have better armor and mobility.

Unless Riptides have gone up

probably got a price reduction, since GW wants you to buy MOAR Riptides!

This thing is fairly balanced. It probably won't be taken by a lot of people though. I wonder if Riptides will be kept as MCs or changed to GCs. If they become GCs, no one will take Stormsurges. Ever.

People also keep looking at this thing through the lens of the 6E codex. We don't know what subsystems this thing will be able to get. That could be a good thing, it could be a bad thing.

GMC are effectively immune to poison, though. Of course, Riptides were already basically immune to poison as well.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Sheit27 wrote:
I'm not really seeing when I'd ever want to spend 360 points on this when for 370 I can get 2 riptides with IA's that do almost the same firepower and have better armor and mobility.

Unless Riptides have gone up

probably got a price reduction, since GW wants you to buy MOAR Riptides!

This thing is fairly balanced. It probably won't be taken by a lot of people though. I wonder if Riptides will be kept as MCs or changed to GCs. If they become GCs, no one will take Stormsurges. Ever.

People also keep looking at this thing through the lens of the 6E codex. We don't know what subsystems this thing will be able to get. That could be a good thing, it could be a bad thing.

Price reduction and a harder to use Nova Reactor are what I'm thinking Riptides saw.

It's silly that it goes off on a 3+.

People just forget that this can take support systems. For all we know you could strap a shield generator for a 4++ on this and then add happily EWO and skyfire. Then pin its legs down and shoot 8d6 missiles at the opponent flyer. Of and don't get me started on what is about to happen if a drop pod army "comes in to kill this thing in a single turn".

I can see this as a 360 pts of artillery powerhouse or a 420+ pts of sick anti-everything.

And for the happy scatterbike fans. Who said the Eldar player will get the first turn? because if you don't, then there'll be no tomorrow.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I don't get it. That's a lot of firepower for 360 points.

Oh wait now I see it. S6 T6 LD8 on such a large creature. Ouch. Scatterbikes will mulch this thing.

Really?

Tau super suit is T6 W8 Sv3+ GC FNP.
Eldar Scatbikes are BS4 S6 Assault 4.

I count that as needing
- 8 wounds (W8)
- 12 fails (FNP)
- 36 wounds (Sv3+)
- 72 hits (S6 v T6)
- 108 shots (BS4)
- 27 SL fired (Assault 4)

That's a lot of Scatter Lasers. To drop it in 2 turns, you'd need to fire 14 SL per turn, 3 squadrons of 5 bikes each. That's taking the same 360 pts of Jetbikes to kill 360 pts of Tau super suit
____

fixed FNP to 5+

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Sheit27 wrote:
I'm not really seeing when I'd ever want to spend 360 points on this when for 370 I can get 2 riptides with IA's that do almost the same firepower and have better armor and mobility.

Unless Riptides have gone up

probably got a price reduction, since GW wants you to buy MOAR Riptides!

This thing is fairly balanced. It probably won't be taken by a lot of people though. I wonder if Riptides will be kept as MCs or changed to GCs. If they become GCs, no one will take Stormsurges. Ever.

People also keep looking at this thing through the lens of the 6E codex. We don't know what subsystems this thing will be able to get. That could be a good thing, it could be a bad thing.

All true

You would have thought that GW's new models would be the best in the codex - but they are not that easy to predict..............

Riptide may be a GC and have 3+ armour as well - that would be consistant with the new model stats.........so it likely won;t be

Also must be something in the new Codex that causes Fear - GW loves Fear............

People would complain if it was OP, people complain when it isn't. No winning.

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
People would complain if it was OP, people complain when it isn't. No winning.

Ah but the people are different - the former is often the ones with the new codex / unit - the latter the opposite.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I don't get it. That's a lot of firepower for 360 points.

Oh wait now I see it. S6 T6 LD8 on such a large creature. Ouch. Scatterbikes will mulch this thing.

Really?

Tau super suit is T6 W8 Sv3+ GC FNP.
Eldar Scatbikes are BS4 S6 Assault 4.

I count that as needing
- 8 wounds (W8)
- 16 pain (FNP)
- 48 fails (Sv3+)
- 96 hits (S6 v T6)
- 144 shots (BS4)
- 36 SL fired (Assault 4)

That's a lot of Scatter Lasers. To drop it in 2 turns, you'd need to fire 18 SL per turn, a 3 squadrons of 6 bikes each. That's taking over 480 pts of Jetbikes to kill 360 pts of Tau super suit.

FNP is 5+

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I don't get it. That's a lot of firepower for 360 points.

Oh wait now I see it. S6 T6 LD8 on such a large creature. Ouch. Scatterbikes will mulch this thing.

Really?

Tau super suit is T6 W8 Sv3+ GC FNP.
Eldar Scatbikes are BS4 S6 Assault 4.

I count that as needing
- 8 wounds (W8)
- 16 pain (FNP)
- 48 fails (Sv3+)
- 96 hits (S6 v T6)
- 144 shots (BS4)
- 36 SL fired (Assault 4)

That's a lot of Scatter Lasers. To drop it in 2 turns, you'd need to fire 18 SL per turn, a 3 squadrons of 6 bikes each. That's taking over 480 pts of Jetbikes to kill 360 pts of Tau super suit.

Point taken.

WK shoots it takes off 3 wounds in one round (that's being generous) then a unit of 10 scattbikes with guide take care of the rest of the wounds.

Dman137 wrote:
WK shoots it takes off 3 wounds in one round (that's being generous) then a unit of 10 scattbikes with guide take care of the rest of the wounds.

One of the most broken units in the game is not a good comparison of how bad a model is