What is the worst codex if you play a pure list ?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Vaktathi**

Quickjager wrote:
Militarum Tempestus.

Oh man I forgot about them, yeah, as an army, they're awful.

"Hey man, AP3 is pretty sweet"

"Yeah, not so much on S3 guns with a 9" double-tap range on T3 Ld7/8 dudes that cost as much as Space Marines".

**Ashiraya**

Vaktathi wrote:
that cost as much as Space Marines".

I still don't see why they do this.

40k is in need of more granularity. Everything that is not super duper special should not be 3 or 4 in everything.

**jreilly89**

Martel732 wrote:
Still better than ba.

The poll implies otherwise.

**Lammikkovalas**

jreilly89 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Still better than ba.

The poll implies otherwise.

Popular opinion does not determine the actual truth.

**casvalremdeikun**

It is a race for last between Blood Angels and Chaos Space Marines.

**oldzoggy**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
It is a race for last between Blood Angels and Chaos Space Marines.

Why does everybody think that they are worse then orks ?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
CSM and Blood angels are no space marines for sure but they do have quite a few quite effective builds at least.

**vipoid**

Does Coven count for pure DE? If not, I think we have a winner.

Otherwise, they're just floating around the same level as the other bad books on this list - IG, CSM, BA,SoB. Of those, I don't know which is outright worst. Probably doesn't help that I haven't seen any of the latter 3 in ages.

**Lammikkovalas**

oldzoggy wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
It is a race for last between Blood Angels and Chaos Space Marines.

Why does everybody think that they are worse then orks ?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
CSM and Blood angels are no space marines for sure but they do have quite a few quite effective builds at least.

In B4 Martel: What are those effective BA builds?

**master of ordinance**

Imperial Guard and Sisters of Battle. One lacks firepower and survivability the other consists of overpriced units and a notable lack of long range shooting.

**NoiseMarine with Tinnitus**

As much as it pains me to say it, I agree CSM. Both the models and Codex are a mess, which is such a wasted opportunity considering they are one of the main protagonists of the 40k setting.

Sadly, I am not holding my breath for their update. Please GW, prove me wrong and I will mortgage my soul for a fresh army.

**Drasius**

CSM --> Guard --> BAngels --> Harlequins --> Viable stand alone armies.

Ork at least have green tide and Bully Boyz + Battlewagon spam, both of which have dne well, and the unkillable ork stompa does OK for itself in casual lists.

**Lammikkovalas**

Drasius wrote:
CSM --> Guard --> BAngels --> Harlequins --> Viable stand alone armies.

Ork at least have green tide and Bully Boyz + Battlewagon spam, both of which have dne well, and the unkillable ork stompa does OK for itself in casual lists.

Just keep in mind that anything unkillable will do at least ok against casual lists.

**ionusx**

militarium tempestus is objectively the worst codex, your basically fielding units that cost as much as space marines do with the stats of guard veterans, and then you get an overcosted valkyrie and the lol traktor to fight against enemies with about a bazillion ways to kill you. they have the least amount of unit options objectively and they have thw worst rules of any codex.

the next one up is probably harleys mainly because their the only mini-dex with a hard counter in imperial knights. they field more than 1 knight and its epic handshake before turn 1 even happens. you simply cant kill them as a harley and thats a huge issue.

cult mechanicus is probably next in line, they need the skitarii to be effective, orbbed of the second half of the mechanium their fighting with a foot in a bucket and largely need to wait for an opportunity to murder you, one that might never present itself.

orks are fourth in line their mob rule and bad leadership punish them so bad its brutal, and they just dont have answers to lots of current meta problems like magic space, the ever expaning menagerie of ludicrous monstrous creatures and ever power jacking bikes/jetbikes and other murderous alphastrike units

**Mallich**

ionusx wrote:
militarium tempestus is objectively the worst codex, your basically fielding units that cost as much as space marines do with the stats of guard veterans

A codex where every single unit is simply a unit from another codex, but moved around the force organization chart. The only difference in stats between their MT and AM versions? The MT codex shipped with a typo that gave their fancy special weapon "Gets Hot".
Classy, GW. At least some of the orders are interesting.

Still isn't stopping me putting some Mantic enforcers together as scions. We gamers have issues. :/

**vipoid**

ionusx wrote:
militarium tempestus is objectively the worst codex, your basically fielding units that cost as much as space marines do with the stats of guard veterans, and then you get an overcosted valkyrie and the lol traktor to fight against enemies with about a bazillion ways to kill you. they have the least amount of unit options objectively and they have thw worst rules of any codex.

They weren't on the list, but yeah they're probably the worst in the game.

ionusx wrote:

the next one up is probably harleys mainly because their the only mini-dex with a hard counter in imperial knights. they field more than 1 knight and its epic handshake before turn 1 even happens. you simply cant kill them as a harley and thats a huge issue.

I kinda feel the same way about MT as I do about Harlequins - they really don't have enough stuff to be separate books. And if they're supposed to only be taken with other armies, why split them up from those armies in the first place?

ionusx wrote:

cult mechanicus is probably next in line, they need the skitarii to be effective, orbbed of the second half of the mechanium their fighting with a foot in a bucket and largely need to wait for an opportunity to murder you, one that might never present itself.

Is Cult Mechanicus really that bad?

**Tarvitz77**

Eldar have gotta be the worst. No one playing you is far worse than losing! HURRR HURRR DURRR...

But seriously, I've put down Harlequins. I just can't see how they're supposed to get by without support from their fellow eldar. Even the much maligned lasgun puts them down without trouble, and they cost so much!

**blofeld**

Dark Eldar are awful. They require a great deal of skill to even effectively kill anything and winning is nigh on impossible especially against MEQs. So hard to play they're not even enjoyable to collect personally despite having a very high quality of minis across the board pretty much
Thanks
Blofeld

**Martel732**

Everyone ranking orks and ig above csm and ba are completely discounting the power of huge numbers of dice.

Tempestus yes is terrible and I forgot about them. I guess they actually win.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

jreilly89 wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Still better than ba.

The poll implies otherwise.

Doesn't really matter when math is in play. Appeal to popular opinion fallacy.

**vipoid**

blofeld wrote:
Dark Eldar are awful. They require a great deal of skill to even effectively kill anything and winning is nigh on impossible especially against MEQs. So hard to play they're not even enjoyable to collect personally despite having a very high quality of minis across the board pretty much
Thanks
Blofeld

I think they suffer from the same problems as BA and IG, in that they basically got left behind. Most other races got a lot of shiny new units, more powerful weapons, cost reductions, and other special rules to make them even better. In contrast, these books received a load of nerfs and barely any buffs (as an example, compare the number of special rules in the 7th edition Eldar book to the number in the 7th edition DE book).

**Ratius**

Who is voting Eldar

Voted Harlies here.

**Lammikkovalas**

Ratius wrote:
Who is voting Eldar
Voted Harlies here.

Dboy who is mad at Super Friends beating those space elves?

**Slayer-Fan123**

How are Temepestus the worst? They aren't great, but they do special weapon spam just okay, and can get Locator Beacons for their Deep strikers on their vehicles.

**Vaktathi**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
How are Temepestus the worst? They aren't great, but they do special weapon spam just okay, and can get Locator Beacons for their Deep strikers on their vehicles.

Primarily because they die like guardsmen, while costing as much as Space Marines, and are a painfully one-dimensional army with extremely limited support options and are pretty much entirely reliant on said painfully overcosted infantry to do the bulk of every job, be it anti-tank, anti-MC, anti-horde, etc.

And, as cool as AP3 is, with S3 guns that only get to double-tap within 9", they're pretty bad.

The army just doesn't function particularly well.

**vipoid**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
How are Temepestus the worst? They aren't great, but they do special weapon spam just okay

Really? I thought they were stuck at 2 special weapons per 5.

**nareik**

Voted imperial knights as they just seem like a novelty. Nearly voted other for Legion of the Damned, but at least I can enjoy building/painting lots of cool models to write my lists with, even if I autolose turn 1. I think knights work as a little bit of spice to a meal, rather than having an entire meal of spice!

I don't see how so many people voted CSM, I love the (admittedly imperfect) codex and have enjoyed every game I've played with and against it, even if it is autolose turn 4 instead of turn 1

.

**Yoyoyo**

Tempestus don't have any ludicrously undercosted units, broken formations, null deployment tricks or superstar named characters to lean on, and those tend to dominate competitive play at 1850pts.

Their actual units are fine, they're pretty much even with Tacs/Razorbacks or Vets/Chimera. The overarching issue is power creep, not really the S3 AP3 gun.

**Vaktathi**

Yoyoyo wrote:
Tempestus don't have any ludicrously undercosted units, broken formations, null deployment tricks or superstar named characters to lean on, and those tend to dominate competitive play at 1850pts.

Their actual units are fine, they're pretty much even with Tacs/Razorbacks or Vets/Chimera.

The problem is that they can't take Chimeras (in the Tempestus book), and they cost 5ppm more than a Veteran unit and can't take as many special/heavy weapons. A Veteran Unit can take 3 specials and a heavy, a Scion unit can only take 2 specials. Veterans come in squads of 10 for 60pts, you get half as many Scions for the same points. Likewise, relative to Tacs, they're significantly less survivable without being any killier, and can't even offer an attritional threat in CC (e.g. a 5man tac squad with a powerfist can threaten many HQ's and put at least *some* hurt on an MC, a Scion squad's not gonna do squat).

There's a reason nobody bothers with the Scion units even in IG armies. Hell, the Scions never worked well for the ~7-8 months they were around before the rapid escalation of power creep that started with Necrons.

**Yoyoyo**

Vak, the command squads get 4x specials+krak, troop survivability comes from better deployment options and alpha strike disruption (not their statline), and the Taurox Prime has a few advantages that chimeras don't get (fast Obsec, better guns, BS4, better dismount hatches, fire ports).

Your points are valid but at the end of the day they are different units and need to be played differently. You need to capitalize on their strengths and not play them as 1/2 size vet squads.

IG armies revolve around castling gunlines or parking lots, they need mass and have awful mobility with which to support DS troops. Scions are worse as IG elites than as a primary IMO, and I think this is coloring your opinion

**Tactical_Spam**

master of ordinance wrote:
Imperial Guard. Our armour is terrible and the only thing worse than it (IE, the only thing it works against) is the Lasgun - otherwise known as our main weapon.
Our units are overpriced, our latest codex was essentially one massive nerf from the old codex, our weapons are mostly useless.... Look, there are hundreds of threads on the subject, do I really need to go on?

Lets not forget Sly Marbo

**Ghazkuul**

Drasius wrote:
CSM --> Guard --> BAngels --> Harlequins --> Viable stand alone armies.

Ork at least have green tide and Bully Boyz + Battlewagon spam, both of which have dne well, and the unkillable ork stompa does OK for itself in casual lists.

Except that Green Tide, Bully Boyz and Battlewagon formations are all in the Waaagh Ghazkuul Supplement Codex and not in Codex Orks.

And the Unkillable Ork Stompa dies in 1-2 turns if confronted with a melta drop pod or D weapons.