Switch Theme:

Have GW finally started to save themselves?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in no
Terrifying Doombull





Hefnaheim

Nope, GW is a doomed enterprise and hopefully we will see them dead and burried come a not too soon day
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel





Brum

 notprop wrote:

Sales reducing at the same time as WHFB has been stagnating and the LotR licencing bubble burst is not a deathslide.


I'm not sure what else to call around a decade of steadily declining sales in a market that is at least stable if not growing.

I don't mean to suggest that re-releasing SGs will save GW, at best they will be a sporadically updated sideline. The change in attitude is what I am referring to; there is a still a lot that needs fixed, not least some deeply rooted structural flaws, but maybe GW have begun to develop the tools and the mindset that will finally allow them to arrest their steady financial and creative decline?


My PLog

Curently: DZC

Set phasers to malkie! 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

A couple of years of negative growth =\= death slide.

We don't even know if there is a tipping point, as long as costs can be reduced in line with turnover, GW could be reduced to hand casting in a shed and keep on keeping on.

Constant falling revenue is not good. GW appearing not to care and making excuses was not good, but framing it as a death slide is a tad hyperbolic.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
Announcing grand plans and actually doing them properly are different things. See where they are in 2 years and then decide if they've "saved themselves"


Yup, fool me once GW.... Look at these grand plans in my Epic Armageddon rulebook.





Games Workshop Delenda Est.

Users on ignore- 53.

If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them. 
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

GW stands pat - "GW is stagnant and in its death throes."

GW makes a move - "GW is desperate and in its death throes."

Funny how that works.

My AT Gallery
My World Eaters Showcase
View my Genestealer Cult! Article - Gallery - Blog
Best Appearance - GW Baltimore GT 2008, Colonial GT 2012

DQ:70+S++++G+M++++B++I+Pw40k90#+D++A+++/fWD66R++T(Ot)DM+++

 
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel





Brum

 Azreal13 wrote:
A couple of years of negative growth =\= death slide.


Its far more than a couple of years though and its been quite a consistent decline. GW is too large to go back to a garage operation, as it stands eventually their overheads will outstrip their revenues and that would be that.

Hyperbole or a reasonable extrapolation of the available data? There are threads and thread on that very subject.

Its certainly the case though that GW is suffering some quite severe difficulties at the moment though and perhaps they have actually decided to do something sensible for once.

 gorgon wrote:
GW stands pat - "GW is stagnant and in its death throes."

GW makes a move - "GW is desperate and in its death throes."

Funny how that works.


Are you reading a different thread?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/17 18:59:26


My PLog

Curently: DZC

Set phasers to malkie! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Scotland

Nope.
While it's great news for many if they are bringing back specialist stuff,many seem to have forgot how much the specialist stuff actually cost before it was discontinued. I seem to remember almost £50 pound for a bloodbowl team,how much will you be willing to pay?
So if they bring it back no doubt it will be in lower number production runs which will bump up the price. So what is the point if not enough people will buy it?
Too late mate.

 
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
Are you reading a different thread?


No. I just know how this conversation will go and that this thread is utterly irrelevant, based on reading other threads about GW's business fortunes for about 20 years now.

My AT Gallery
My World Eaters Showcase
View my Genestealer Cult! Article - Gallery - Blog
Best Appearance - GW Baltimore GT 2008, Colonial GT 2012

DQ:70+S++++G+M++++B++I+Pw40k90#+D++A+++/fWD66R++T(Ot)DM+++

 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

A point I would like to raise, something I don't think has been mentioned yet, concerning the new Specialist Games.

I asked a question in a thread about AoS, asking who was writing the rules?

An answer I got from someone was a nonchalant shrug and 'GW design studio'.

I think that speaks volumes. Yes these games will have a GW logo on the box, but who is going to write the updated versions of these rules, and I have to ask the serious question is GW still capable of it with the talent that they have in-house right now, beyond Jervis Johnson?

Back in the 90's a lot of the guys writing the specialist games had been cutting their teeth for years on development of new rules for different games and we've heard from those people what a hotbed the company was of creativity. The proof really is in how good some of those games were and how the are so popular still now. But we've heard also now how that has changed, and really what have the rule writers of this current generation worked on to improve their craft? Because I don't consider making 0.1 design revisions to a new codex or army book, or even the small changes between game editions, as actual game design but more of just an adjustment.

You have to look back at Dreadfleet, which to me felt like it had some good ideas at its core but was then murdered by committee, or most recently AoS which is a wargame only in the sense that 4 pages of rules can be. I know there is some pretty good stuff with player comp going on for that game, but that isn't the point in terms of giving you confidence of a well designed game system or something that people can really get their teeth into.

So is a new Necromunda likely to be as well designed as Infinity, which had the creators playtesting for 4 years to achieve a balance and (I don't think it's OTT to say this) is practically a work of art with it's intricacies? Or will a new BFG match Andy Chambers' Dropfleet Commander, who has made that game with 20+ years of games writing experience? Will a new Bloodbowl match Jake Thornton's Dreadball? I could go on.

I know this won't matter to everyone, especially if you just want to push around some 6mil miniatures within your favourite sci-fi universe, but I think for a lot of us who want good games to play it's an extremely important question. It's not enough to throw money at something and make it good, but I wonder how GW will make these games 'special' without bringing in some outside talent, especially considering that any game design (and this has been the achilles heel of GW's releases for the last decade) must prompt their customers to continuously invest in the latest releases.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out in any case. Let's hope that, even if the new releases don't quite hit the mark in terms of mechanics, that GW perseveres with it. Let their creative guys learn how to make games and perhaps ultimately make games that are worthy of GW's evocative licences.

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
Small but perfectly formed! A Great Crusade Epic 6mm project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/694411.page

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Nottingham

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
 JamesY wrote:
Although I fully welcome the return of specialist games, and will no doubt throw a wad of cash as thick as my arm at them over the next couple of years buying them.
So, just the one game then?

More seriously, this is one of two hopeful signs that I have seen for GW - the other being the Warhammer 30K box.




Ha ha . My arms are rather slim...

I'll be interested to see how they are priced. BaC was fantastic value for money, Assassinorium Force was ok. I don't mind £75 for boxed contents like space hulk, but I'd be reluctant to pay that for Mordheim or Blood bowl, unless they add a fair amount to it from the last time.

Have a look at my P&M blog - currently working on Sons of Horus

Have a look at my 3d Printed Mierce Miniatures

Previous projects
30k Iron Warriors (11k+)
Full first company Crimson Fists
Zone Mortalis (unfinished)
Classic high elf bloodbowl team 
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel





Brum

 gorgon wrote:

No. I just know how this conversation will go and that this thread is utterly irrelevant, based on reading other threads about GW's business fortunes for about 20 years now.


So your not even reading this one but you felt the need to post in it?

My PLog

Curently: DZC

Set phasers to malkie! 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
A couple of years of negative growth =\= death slide.


Its far more than a couple of years though and its been quite a consistent decline. GW is too large to go back to a garage operation, as it stands eventually their overheads will outstrip their revenues and that would be that.

Hyperbole or a reasonable extrapolation of the available data? There are threads and thread on that very subject.

Its certainly the case though that GW is suffering some quite severe difficulties at the moment though and perhaps they have actually decided to do something sensible for once.


No, GW are still making profits, still paying dividends, still pushing out new product, still expanding their operation. They're not experiencing severe difficulties, they're headed there, but they're not there yet.

Slump? Absolutely. Decline? Yep. Slowdown? Definitely.

Death slide is a needlessly over the top choice of language.

I'm well aware of the threads and threads on the subject, you'll find my username attached to multiple posts in many of them, and I'm saying that you're definitely erring on the side of hyperbole with that one.

They needed to change, thankfully enough people shared that opinion sufficiently to spend their money elsewhere and send the message in the only way GW would have listened to it.

There's still huge scope for failure, but at least it looks like they're finally having a go.

Oh, and there's no such thing as "too big" for anything, you seem to have taken my shed comment at face value, I'll try and be more literal with you in future, but as long as the decline is gradual, there's an infinite number of options open to them in order to keep going in some capacity.


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel





Brum

 Pacific wrote:

I think that speaks volumes. Yes these games will have a GW logo on the box, but who is going to write the updated versions of these rules, and I have to ask the serious question is GW still capable of it with the talent that they have in-house right now, beyond Jervis Johnson?


That's a real concern, by far the best thing that GW could do is to not touch the rules aside from making revisions based upon the various fan versions that already exist. If they try to reinvent the wheel it will all go tits up. At the moment I am in the 'cautiously optimistic' camp though.

Believe it or not this is meant to be a positive thread...

 Azreal13 wrote:

Death slide is a needlessly over the top choice of language.


Only slightly, the direction of travel is clear and long established.

 Azreal13 wrote:

I'll try and be more literal with you in future


Try to use monosyllables as well please, possibly nothing more than grunting and pointing? As GW are a publically traded company once their share price drops low enough someone will buy them and that could mean anything. Another couple of bad reports and who knows what will happen?

Again though, lots of other threads on this......

My PLog

Curently: DZC

Set phasers to malkie! 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Death Slide is a rather dramatic phrase, but if you chart GW's revenue growth for the past 3, 10 and 15 years, the regression line is pretty gakky.

They are still making good profits. This will not continue for another couple of years at the current burn rate, unless they get things turned around.

I don't believe 40K by itself is enough to sustain the company. How much more features can be bolted on to the system to justify shiny new models and rules? Boats? Spaceships? It has to end somewhere, and then what happens?

Can AoS or LoTR save them? Probably not. LoTR's decline is one of the sources of their problems. AoS won't replace WHFB when part of WHFB's reason for failure was being too expensive.

Therefore GW need to make some new games.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Their core mistakes:

Only two games.
Too complicated.
Too expensive.


Do you expect them to fix that last one?

They can bring out plastic Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Battlefleet Gothic, Epic and Mordheim with full plastic mini and terrain support and it won't mean a damned thing if they continue to raise the average prices with each and every new release.

If it costs $500 to get a decent Epic force, $100 for a Blood Bowl team, or if the Mordheim starter box costs $250, then all this "turning a new leaf" stuff just won't matter.

I'm glad that they appear to be trying, but their biggest obstacle remains the barrier to entry and I just do not see any evidence of them stopping that trend.

 notprop wrote:
Sales reducing at the same time as WHFB has been stagnating and the LotR licencing bubble burst is not a deathslide.


How long are you going to try to push the "LOTR bubble bursting" line as the reason for GW's current state? Return of the King came out thirteen years ago. It is no longer a factor in GW's current state of affairs.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/17 20:56:37


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel





Brum

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Do you expect them to fix that last one?


Realistically they need to. Perhaps they will actually do some market research now given that they have apparently started to do some sensible things?

My PLog

Curently: DZC

Set phasers to malkie! 
   
Made in gb
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Beijing

I think you need to wait and see how serious GW are about resurrecting Specialist Games and how they implement it. If all the figures for stuff like Necromunda are priced like clampack singles now (£15-18 a pop) most people will shake their head and walk away. That's pretty much what they did with the Hobbit, vastly overestimate what their market will pay for non-core games.
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
Their core mistakes:

Only two games.
Too complicated.
Too expensive.


Do you expect them to fix that last one?

They can bring out plastic Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Battlefleet Gothic, Epic and Mordheim with full plastic mini and terrain support and it won't mean a damned thing if they continue to raise the average prices with each and every new release.

If it costs $500 to get a decent Epic force, $100 for a Blood Bowl team, or if the Mordheim starter box costs $250, then all this "turning a new leaf" stuff just won't matter.

I'm glad that they appear to be trying, but their biggest obstacle remains the barrier to entry and I just do not see any evidence of them stopping that trend.

 notprop wrote:
Sales reducing at the same time as WHFB has been stagnating and the LotR licencing bubble burst is not a deathslide.


How long are you going to try to push the "LOTR bubble bursting" line as the reason for GW's current state? Return of the King came out thirteen years ago. It is no longer a factor in GW's current state of affairs.

The problem is not only 'too expensive' it is 'not enough value for money'.

Their starter sets have been decent to excellent value for money - though less so for the last few editions of both WH40K and WHFB.

As an example of poor value for money - the hard cover codecii. Higher priced, hard cover... but less actual content, and most of than content recycled from previous versions of those same books.

There is little there to justify the higher price - and while they can point and yell 'hardcover!' it is also in a time when folks find the use of e-readers and tablets more convenient than toting bboks.

Another is bundling a standard unit with the bits that allow the unit to be fielded as an elite - and then charging the price for the elite unit. Which means that if you plan on fielding the models as a standard unit then you are paying extra for things that you do not want or need.

Had they reversed that - adding the bits to turn a standard unit into an elite unit, but charging for the standard unit, then folks would have been crowing. (I remember when they first started making the multipart plastic kits for Empire halberdiers... I bought a lot of those sets, as they were excellent value for money.)

Then add in that you no longer get a decent sized unit in many of those boxes - and need to buy additional kits, just to field a standard unit.

When the consumers are willing to take a step back and decide not to get a kit because it does not meet their needs then sales are lost.

That said - I think that bringing back the Specialist games is a step in the right direction. There were a fair number of folks that were quite annoyed that GW had decided to stop support for their favorite games, which was only added to a growing dissatisfaction with perceived value.

I know that I will be taking a serious look at a new release of Mordheim - and I have not made a GW purchase in more than three years. (And that last was at a game store's closing sale. Half off on some terrain kits - with nearly a year for the next to last GW purchase before that.)

The Auld Grump - Necromunda will also rate a glance, but I will let others in my group make that purchase. (I just like Mordheim better.)

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

To answer HBMC's query, I think that GW have a significant problem of being 'hooked' on high prices.

This may be a circle they cannot square. They may need to accept several years of reduced profits by lowering prices in order to recruit more customers for the future.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel





Brum

 Kilkrazy wrote:
To answer HBMC's query, I think that GW have a significant problem of being 'hooked' on high prices.

This may be a circle they cannot square. They may need to accept several years of reduced profits by lowering prices in order to recruit more customers for the future.


This is where Epic steps in, maybe. GW can't price anything that can be used with 40k in line with the rest of the wargaming market, they simply can't afford to at the moment. Epic on the other hand is a 'new' product that is completely distinct from their other current lines so this could be priced more sensibly, both to entice people like myself to actually give money to GW but also to act as a real entry level product; moderate price, simple but good rules, nice toys.....

My PLog

Curently: DZC

Set phasers to malkie! 
   
Made in au
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine




Oz

This is where market research is useful. Doing things to 'turn themselves around' won't help unless they do the right things. This looks like another 'innovate by recycling' measure, which hasn't been helping them so far.

 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






 Torga_DW wrote:
This is where market research is useful. Doing things to 'turn themselves around' won't help unless they do the right things. This looks like another 'innovate by recycling' measure, which hasn't been helping them so far.
Pffft! 'Market research'... how otiose!

The Auld Grump - Kirby may carry that word to his company's grave....

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in us
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator





Pittsburgh, PA, USA

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
To answer HBMC's query, I think that GW have a significant problem of being 'hooked' on high prices.

This may be a circle they cannot square. They may need to accept several years of reduced profits by lowering prices in order to recruit more customers for the future.


This is where Epic steps in, maybe. GW can't price anything that can be used with 40k in line with the rest of the wargaming market, they simply can't afford to at the moment. Epic on the other hand is a 'new' product that is completely distinct from their other current lines so this could be priced more sensibly, both to entice people like myself to actually give money to GW but also to act as a real entry level product; moderate price, simple but good rules, nice toys.....


Here's the problem, Puffin. Maybe they make Epic and the starter set is reasonable. Then,

1) GW changes the rules for Epic, making it not worth playing, OR...
2) GW tweaks the scale for the game, making previous collections obsolete, OR...
3) FW begins producing expansions/new models, but they're expensive, OR...

There are existing precedents for all of the above. I just don't see a world where GW gets this right. I want them to, I really do, but the culture at the company has to change. And as long as the balance sheet has the final say, it never will.

   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






 Kilkrazy wrote:
To answer HBMC's query, I think that GW have a significant problem of being 'hooked' on high prices.

This may be a circle they cannot square. They may need to accept several years of reduced profits by lowering prices in order to recruit more customers for the future.


This assumes that GW isn't already optimizing its profits. There us the very real possibility that with cheaper products, they'd sell more, gave more customers, gave happier customers... and make less money.

There are customers that buy pricey miniatures at whatever price just because they want them badly enough; there's customers that just don't like GW products no matter the price. For these people, the price would need to be unrealistically low or high to impact their buying decision. It's the people who like GW models and games but find them too expensive that they'd be trying to win over, and I have no idea what sort of dollars this would account for, and whether it would break even with the status quo.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

There's little chance their profits are optimised if they continue to increase RRP and their profits are still falling.

If they'd made the effort to collate the data then they'd have a solid idea where the sweet spot was the risk of losing profits would be mitigated.

But it isn't all about price, so it will take a lot more than increased value to solve the problem for everyone.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




The problem I see with GW and their prices is that they see themselves as premium brand and, even if they decide it's the right path, they can't just reduce everything at once (that could look like a clearance sale and devalue their brand). They can use bundles to offer a discount that doesn't affect the rest of their products or they can start to redo all of their boxes and just put a lower price on these. Both would offer lower prices but a bundle is quite specific, to some degree limited, and not useful for everyone (they can't just bundle up their whole product catalogue) while a complete redesign of all boxes would take some time to have an effect due to their product range.

I don't know where their sweet spot is (regarding prices) but if they decide they actually need to reduce them in some way (without calling it a price reduction) they will have a hard time doing it swiftly.
   
Made in us
Ship's Officer






@OP: Hey I'm happy specialist games are coming back too, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/18 00:53:24


Ask Not, Fear Not - (Gallery), ,

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Yeah! Who needs balanced rules when everyone can take giant stompy robots! Balanced rules are just for TFG WAAC players, and everyone hates them.

- This message brought to you by the Dakka Casual Gaming Mafia: 'Cause winning is for losers!
 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






Mario wrote:I don't know where their sweet spot is (regarding prices) but if they decide they actually need to reduce them in some way (without calling it a price reduction) they will have a hard time doing it swiftly.


I think that GW must decide (and perhaps it already has) whether the sweet spot is (a) the price which generates the most net revenue (b) the price which generates the most net profit or (c) the price which creates the largest fanbase. There's also the distinction between short and long term profits.

In my opinion, their pricing people have a better grasp of this than we do, and the prices aren't purely random ($20 + 3D6!! Raise prices 2D6% this year!!!), but driven by a desire to maximize profit, using some analysis of the information that they have.


Azreal13 wrote:There's little chance their profits are optimised if they continue to increase RRP and their profits are still falling.

If they'd made the effort to collate the data then they'd have a solid idea where the sweet spot was the risk of losing profits would be mitigated.

But it isn't all about price, so it will take a lot more than increased value to solve the problem for everyone.


Well, there are lots of businesses that recognize that their profits are going to decline, so they're looking at ways of minimizing that decline. I totally agree with you that it's not all about price, too. There are plenty of people who just won't buy into GW games because... they don't like the games or the models Even if the prices were to significantly drop, it wouldn't change their minds.

I think dropping prices would make a lot of people really happy (me included), but I don't know if it would make GW a lot more money.

I also think GW should put out a great set of competitive, tournament-friendly skirmish rules in one of their game settings, if only to compete in that niche. They don't even need any new models. I don't think it would detract away from their current core sales, because people who are looking for 10 model games aren't looking for 40k anyhow. It might not make much money (and I'm pretty sure this is why they don't do it), but it is mindshare and depriving other companies of customers -- in the same way that SGs would, to some degree.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

So are we optimising profits or minimising losses?

Dropping prices is not the way forward. Little of what GW sells can be considered expensive to the average, middle class employed person (or family member thereof) in terms of actual cash.

As I inevitably always have to explain somewhere in these style of threads, it's not price, it's value that's at stake.

Invest more into making the games attractive to play again, the price issue disappears for many. Just like painters go googly over all the bits you get in modern GW kits, that add no value for a gamer, make the games better so they're more enthused to buy the kit.

Imagine how much better it would feel to buy a Terminator Tac Squad, build and paint it and field it for the first time and discover it was good? That it actually felt like you'd put some of the galaxy's premier heavy infantry on the table, but you didn't feel somewhat cheated because they were so good you steamrollered everyone with them?

The issues with cost don't disappear, but they're heavily mitigated, whereas now the same action can often find them blown away, and induce a heavy case of buyers remorse.

They don't need "tournament" rules, they just need "good" rules and the community will take care of the rest.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/18 03:24:29


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in jp
Fixture of Dakka





Japan

I want to believe but i am skeptical the problem is




I just go with the wait and see approach.

Squidbot;
"That sound? That's the sound of me drinking all my paint and stabbing myself in the eyes with my brushes. "
My Doombringer Space Marine Army
Hello Kitty Space Marines project
Buddhist Space marine Project
Other Projects
Imageshack deleted all my Images Thank you! 
   
 
Forum Index » Dakka Discussions
Go to: