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Made in es
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





 nullBolt wrote:
Honestly, I can't find that many people who are considerably cheaper than GW.

Fielding a full standard point game? Sure, GW is more expensive than Warmahordes. Individually model for model they're around the same or Warmahordes is slightly more expensive.


Try looking harder.

Progress is like a herd of pigs: everybody is interested in the produced benefits, but nobody wants to deal with all the resulting gak.

GW customers deserve every bit of outrageous princing they get. 
   
Made in au
Lady of the Lake






On the plus side you can make it look like ruins and throw a couple of gundams into it instead of the trains to save money, then it doubles as a 40k table when they aren't looking.



   
Made in gb
Sneaky Lictor





Thanks for the posts, quite an insightful enjoyable read.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Korinov wrote:
 nullBolt wrote:
Honestly, I can't find that many people who are considerably cheaper than GW.

Fielding a full standard point game? Sure, GW is more expensive than Warmahordes. Individually model for model they're around the same or Warmahordes is slightly more expensive.


Try looking harder.


Please show me where to look. The only people I can find considerably cheaper are my Oriental friends who happen to drop resin into moulds that look like GW stuff.

 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






 AndrewGPaul wrote:
If you do the layout in N scale, you can also use it to play Dropzone Commander or 10mm modern or WW2 games on.

I used to have an O-gauge clockwork Hornby layout as a child - nothing fancy, just an oval track with a coupld of sidings and a station, screwed down to a big sheet of chipboard. No idea what it's worth now; the trains must be at least fifty years old, and could be pre-War.
Heh, I have been using toy no-particular-scale trains in my games - ones that I picked up at Toys 'R' Us for a tenner, including track. (Including a coal station that goes 'Woo! Woo! when you push a button. Is it sad thing that I painted the coal station up for use as terrain?)

I have seen one of those same toy trains painted up on the WARMACHINE forums....

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

 Mymearan wrote:
Dropzone Commander you say? Oooooooh... Christmas village invasion!


Check out some of this kind of stuff from the Japanese companies Kato and Tomix



Wanted to make a big DZC board and go mental with working street lights and the like, then I remembered that I wasn't really a massive fan of the game itself !





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Made in es
Pulsating Possessed Chaos Marine





 nullBolt wrote:
 Korinov wrote:
 nullBolt wrote:
Honestly, I can't find that many people who are considerably cheaper than GW.

Fielding a full standard point game? Sure, GW is more expensive than Warmahordes. Individually model for model they're around the same or Warmahordes is slightly more expensive.


Try looking harder.


Please show me where to look. The only people I can find considerably cheaper are my Oriental friends who happen to drop resin into moulds that look like GW stuff.


The oriental friends! Who doesn't have one these days?

Currently I'd say GW and Privateer Press are mostly side by side when it comes to insane prices. Perhaps their plastics are not oil derivatives but come from gold. I dunno. Infinity isn't certainly cheap either, although all their models are metal (or at least they were the last time I checked) and that means higher value to me (although it won't to other people). Malifaux is also pricey.

In any case, 25€ for an individual plastic model (I don't care how shiny the model is and how many spare bits I'll have after assembly, it's still a single model) takes the cake in terms of crazyness.

Other than that, with the exception of some (overpriced) niche companies, you'll find cheaper models from virtually every single manufacturer out there. Perhaps you won't like their models or their models' aesthetics, but that does nothing to negate the fact they're cheaper. When it comes to futuristic models, Mantic or Dreamforge will sell you plastic 10 humanoid infantrymen for 20€. The Greatcoat Shocktroopers from Wargames factory are 18 models for 22€, also plastic. Typically the resin manufacturers will charge slightly more, but not much more unless you're going for very high quality and baroque models. And even then, they're comparatively much cheaper than GW. In example, Hi-Tech is expensive, but expensive within the realm of reason. Come Black Friday and I'll be able to purchase this for less than 20€. Even at its normal retail price, it's cheaper than your average space marine character nowadays, and that's a 40mm base he's standing on.

Progress is like a herd of pigs: everybody is interested in the produced benefits, but nobody wants to deal with all the resulting gak.

GW customers deserve every bit of outrageous princing they get. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





TN/AL/MS state line.

How about y'all just save the price discussion for another thread, and save this one for more train and terrain pictures.

Black Bases and Grey Plastic Forever:My quaint little hobby blog.

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Count Mortimer’s Private Security Force/Excavation Team (building)
Kabal of the Grieving Widow (less)

Plus other games- miniature and cardboard both. 
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

Well, given that price discussion forms part of the thread title, I think it looks like fair game.

Pretty much all "grown up" hobbies are expensive, though.

I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in us
Dwarf Runelord Banging an Anvil





Way on back in the deep caves

Heres a link to look at and save:

https://www.walthers.com

They have been in business since Moses was a boy, and have virtually everything a model railroader could want. Searchable by scale too. WARNING: You could spend hours just looking at the model buildings.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/26 08:25:44


Trust in Iron and Stone  
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 Korinov wrote:
The oriental friends! Who doesn't have one these days?

Currently I'd say GW and Privateer Press are mostly side by side when it comes to insane prices. Perhaps their plastics are not oil derivatives but come from gold. I dunno. Infinity isn't certainly cheap either, although all their models are metal (or at least they were the last time I checked) and that means higher value to me (although it won't to other people). Malifaux is also pricey.

In any case, 25€ for an individual plastic model (I don't care how shiny the model is and how many spare bits I'll have after assembly, it's still a single model) takes the cake in terms of crazyness.

Other than that, with the exception of some (overpriced) niche companies, you'll find cheaper models from virtually every single manufacturer out there. Perhaps you won't like their models or their models' aesthetics, but that does nothing to negate the fact they're cheaper. When it comes to futuristic models, Mantic or Dreamforge will sell you plastic 10 humanoid infantrymen for 20€. The Greatcoat Shocktroopers from Wargames factory are 18 models for 22€, also plastic. Typically the resin manufacturers will charge slightly more, but not much more unless you're going for very high quality and baroque models. And even then, they're comparatively much cheaper than GW. In example, Hi-Tech is expensive, but expensive within the realm of reason. Come Black Friday and I'll be able to purchase this for less than 20€. Even at its normal retail price, it's cheaper than your average space marine character nowadays, and that's a 40mm base he's standing on.


You'd have to be a fool to play Warhammer without oriental friends. :p

I'm shocked that PP's prices are so high, especially after seeing people talk about how cheap they were a few years back. Then again, I guess they meant to get a decent army ready for some competitive gaming.

I think Hi-Tech's prices are pretty over the top considering the quality of the sculpts they put out. Also, what the hell is going on with Dreamforge / Wargames Factory? Their shop's been down for months and they haven't moved to Warlords yet.

There's stuff like this Warzone Mutant Chronicles box which costs £30 (including shipping) for a 80-odd miniatures. Worth it even if you don't particularly like the sculpts although I do wonder what kind of pleb wouldn't.

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Worth it even if you don't particularly like the sculpts


How so? If I don't like the sculpts, I've paid £30 for 80 models I don't want, which is terrible value. I could spend £0, get no models I don't want and still be £30 up.
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Guys, remember the rules and keep recasting off DakkaDakka.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 AndrewGPaul wrote:
How so? If I don't like the sculpts, I've paid £30 for 80 models I don't want, which is terrible value. I could spend £0, get no models I don't want and still be £30 up.


Because there will come a time you want 80 guys in power armour and you will not have that box.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Guys, remember the rules and keep recasting off DakkaDakka.


I don't know what you're talking about, those Warzone guys are genuine. :3

 
   
Made in us
Dwarf Runelord Banging an Anvil





Way on back in the deep caves

Looks like the model train thread has de-railed.

Trust in Iron and Stone  
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





 snurl wrote:
Looks like the model train thread has de-railed.



 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Lincoln, UK

Thanks nullBolt, thanks a lot. Thomas the Tank Engine's o-face is just what I need to see...

ALL you guys are doing is reminding me that I have my dad's old Hornby trains up in the attic... and I caught myself looking at Bachmann starter train sets last night
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





TN/AL/MS state line.

 chromedog wrote:
Well, given that price discussion forms part of the thread title, I think it looks like fair game.

Pretty much all "grown up" hobbies are expensive, though.

I was referring more to the GW vs Privateer Press price discussion. The model RR prices are eye-opening to me! I never knew they were so expensive. The closest I've had was a small plastic set that came with a warehouse and station, and maybe a couple cows or something.

Black Bases and Grey Plastic Forever:My quaint little hobby blog.

40k- The Kumunga Swarm (more)
Count Mortimer’s Private Security Force/Excavation Team (building)
Kabal of the Grieving Widow (less)

Plus other games- miniature and cardboard both. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Momotaro wrote:
Thanks nullBolt, thanks a lot. Thomas the Tank Engine's o-face is just what I need to see...

ALL you guys are doing is reminding me that I have my dad's old Hornby trains up in the attic... and I caught myself looking at Bachmann starter train sets last night


If you like it, I know plenty of sites where you can get clandestine pics of Thomas and his friends "adventuring".

 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Lincoln, UK

 nullBolt wrote:


If you like it, I know plenty of sites where you can get clandestine pics of Thomas and his friends "adventuring".


In and out the tunnel, eh?

Mind if I pass?
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Momotaro wrote:
In and out the tunnel, eh?

Mind if I pass?


Hey, it's your loss.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Momotaro wrote:
Thanks nullBolt, thanks a lot. Thomas the Tank Engine's o-face is just what I need to see...


Great, now I'm thinking of Raccoon Girl
Spoiler:

   
Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

 Sinful Hero wrote:
 chromedog wrote:
Well, given that price discussion forms part of the thread title, I think it looks like fair game.

Pretty much all "grown up" hobbies are expensive, though.

I was referring more to the GW vs Privateer Press price discussion. The model RR prices are eye-opening to me! I never knew they were so expensive. The closest I've had was a small plastic set that came with a warehouse and station, and maybe a couple cows or something.


I will say though, if you actually hold the engines in your hand, look at the detail and the scale of the mechanisms they contain, if you have an appreciation/understanding of that kind of thing, then you won't view it as being over-priced. Certainly I don't think the profit margins on them would be anything like as big as a lot of wargaming kits, no matter how low the Chinese labour costs.

In the same way that £60 for a Dragon or Trumpeter plastic kit sounds expensive, until you see that it contains 900-odd pieces, with pressed alumium components and that the pieces fit together perfectly.

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Hmm, let me poke the fire a little....

There is a miniatures company that handles both gaming miniatures and S Gauge model railroading - Reviresco.

Though I have to warn you, some of what they sell is junk -


They have been in both businesses for a long time, back when paper models were a normal feature of model railroading.

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* A friend used their deep ones in his model railroad, back in the nineties - the Innsmouth spur of the B&M.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/27 22:11:31


Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

In Germany, we have two fantastic companies for model trains: fleischmann and maerklin.
Very expensive but high tech.

Former moderator 40kOnline

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Norfolk

Model railways don't have to be expensive. I have in the past and plan to in the future (got a space prepared but I want to get my games room done first) done a bit of railway modelling and always on a tight budget. Model railways don't have to be huge they can be really quite tiny. My previous layouts have all been under 4 square feet in total space. Sadly they all got severely damaged a few years ago and were scrapped but I do have some photos of one of them.

Here's the basic layout, when it was on display at shows there was a lot more junk simply placed on the layout to provide more visual interest than the rather dull building and fence could provide. BTW the bricks on that building were all hand laid.



Here's an interior shot of the building during construction of the layout, the furniture, rug and questionable wall paper is all cheap dolls house stuff.



Have another shot of the this time showing the very basic lighting system I used for the building (led on a dimmer switch).



Now no doubt you've noticed that the scale is rather large and the track very narrow. This layout was meant to represent a small section of a minimum gauge estate railway. The scale is G which is a rather variable scale (anything from 1:20 to 1:29) but I used 1/24 which is wonderful for modelling because it's so easy, 1/2" on the model is 1' in real life. The track gauge was 12mm which happens to scale to just between 10 1/4" and 12" gauge in real life. Both of those track gauges were used in both industrial and estate railways though 15" or 18" were more common (use 16.5mm aka HO/OO track for that).

To give an idea of the size of the loco's I used (all scratch built on a bought chassis) here a photo showing a completed (and really badly painted) loco next to a donor loco on the same chassis.



The cost of that donor loco was incredibly cheap by model railway standards, if I remember correctly it was £45 at the time for that loco, 3 wagons and a oval of track. I ended up buying two of those sets and ditching all the track. I think the total cost of the layout itself was about £100. Compared to spending £200 plus on a single loco I think it's fair to say my approach to railway modelling is low budget. I would also argue it's more enjoyable because apart from the actual chassis things ran on I built everything myself.

It was also quite amusing to see the reactions of other modellers at shows when myself and several others with similarly sized layouts would turn up with more layouts than people (2 or 3 each in a group of 3 or 4) about half an hour before the show. Throw everything on a table and have it all running in about 10 minutes while these other groups would often have turned up the previous evening and still be fettling at lunchtime. Then there was the murderous looks we'd get from men of a certain age who had been showing their other half what they could have in their garage, only for said other half to see our mass of little layouts and exclaim something along the lines of "ooh why don't you build something like those?"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/28 08:04:45


Treasurer/Dakka Thread Person for Warpath Wargames Club Norwich

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Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





Just thinking that considering the new Raspberry Pi Zero came out, it'd probably be a lot cheaper to connect up a motor and set of wheels and run that around a track. I'd say around a total of £20-40 pounds.

The only issue would be the casing...

 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

I think your estate railway models are rather jolly.

Have you thought about adding more skulls to grimdark(tm) them into 40K scenery?

There's a nice estate railway at Syon Park in Isleworth, if anyone's interested, though it probably only runs during summer.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Well I've seen starter sets from fleischmann, track H0, which are 250-350 €. One engine and a few wagons plus an oval rail track. Not very much if you ask me.
40k seems to be cheaper.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/28 22:09:49


Former moderator 40kOnline

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Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

You can get a Hornby starter set for under £100 but most of them cost about £120 to £200, similar to the German sets.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
 
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