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More than one artist crossed over between 2000AD and GW. The only one that comes immediately to mind is Carl Critchlow, but there are others. I think Carl actually did more early GW stuff, and later did 2000AD, but others went the other way.

Actually, iirc, Kev Walker might be another.

Most of the 2000ad guys were doing Dredd as well as 40k. At the time It was all ripped out of real life... Just ask Gazghkull Mag Ur Thrakka or Sherlock Cloussuea. Or nosuchthingus as copyrightus backthenus.
Need more ABC. Mills and Bisley

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Tinkrr wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
I always felt that Tau represented how GW views the US military, all high-tech but can't shoot worth a damn.

SJ

Is that like a thing? I never heard it, am I that out of touch o_o? Do white people really smell like wet dog?

But yea, nope the Tau were based off of the Chinese, at least for the non-mech stuff. It also makes sense since the repeating crossbow and the like were Chinese, and those were mostly about peppering the enemy than accuracy.

High tech but sloppy is generally the British opinion of the American military, yeah. Amongst civilians, anyway.

That's the civilian view, sure. After serving in NATO with 14 different military's represented, and keeping in mind that the soldiers sent to my unit were supposedly the best each country had, all I have to say is that the United States Military is hands down the best military in the world, with the Canadians coming in second, Brits third, German Regular Army 4th, Israeli army 5th, (could go both ways on that one), and then everyone else. It's a sad fact that no other country spends as much money/soldier, has the same huge budget, equips their soldiers, or trains as hard as the US Military. AND gives them as good of a paycheck along with the best retirement- a pension after 20 years guaranteed for life. The Canadian and British retirement system is actually better, but it doesn't kick in until your in your 60's, and you have to be in the military for way longer then 20 years to get it. Our military? A kid can join at 18, retire at 38, and have a $30K/year pay check that increases by about 3% every year until they die with full benefits as well.

Sorry, I find too many civilians with these preconceived notions about the military's of various countries. Here is a great article written by some French soldiers who were embedded with an American Army unit in Afghanistan: http://www.scout.com/military/warrior-lodge/story/1557834-a-french-soldier-s-view-of-us-soldiers

Have a great day and Happy Holidays!

As many had said, 40K is based on a great range of comics from the murky past.

One of the big contributors that I reckon kicked it off being Nemesis the Warlock. Here's a link to a previous post from yonks back.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/588040.page#6718989


If you want to see how deep the rabbit hole really goes, I recommend a google search / image search and looking at the comics, you'll be surprised just how much 40K has been lifted from it as a foundation for the game we know today

In regards to strictly Judge Dredd, mostly the Arbites but not only the Arbites. Necromunda owed Dredd a lot. The space marine bikes as well, as far as I'm concerned.

 Captain Joystick wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

PS, IIRC Moorcock did not invent the Chaos Star but took it from someone else. But that's just something 2nd had I remember from similar discussions.

He talked about this in an interview. He's actually rather annoyed by that claim because he distinctly remembers scribbling the original design on a napkin or something and the most persistent ones are insisting he received the symbol as a vision from some actual 'chaos force's or something.

Chaos mutations however are a very Moorcock thing and the Emperor on his Golden Throne is very much from Moorcock's Hawkwind books.

The Emperor himself is so blatantly the Eternal Champion it's actually funny.

I always saw him more as Emperor Leto II from God-Emperor of Dune.

As for the Adeptus Mechanicus, A Canticle For Liebowitz is one source, yes, but Dune's Bene Tleilax and Ixians, and Foundation's Encyclopedia Foundation, especially in the earlier chapters, are also obvious antecedents.

Dune, Foundation, Lovecraft, Starship troopers, Dredd. Just because it borrows from all these sources doesn't mean it wasn't a unique setting.

 Filch wrote:
GW is the biggest copy cat! They go around stealing ideas and fighting in court. Their writters and artist came up with it on their own? Complete and udder cruddance.

Good artists are inspired, great artists copy

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Filch wrote:
GW is the biggest copy cat! They go around stealing ideas and fighting in court. Their writters and artist came up with it on their own? Complete and udder cruddance.

Good artists are inspired, great artists copy

And the best artists steal.

The Matrix was an original movie, but every piece of it was taken from somewhere else. It's how those pieces are used that matter.
The 40k universe is unique and interesting. The fluff has sense become stale and lifeless, but that's another matter.

the ancient wrote:
Most of the 2000ad guys were doing Dredd as well as 40k. At the time It was all ripped out of real life... Just ask Gazghkull Mag Ur Thrakka or Sherlock Cloussuea. Or nosuchthingus as copyrightus backthenus.
Need more ABC. Mills and Bisley

Definitely. The time wastes were my all time favourites, awesome artist, great story and the battle between chaos and order, runs straight through to 40k. The monad even looks like papa nurgle.

GW has stolen everything from from so many sources at some point 40k becomes a unique thing. Sure most of the ideas are not original but not has gone so far as them to combine about every single famous historical figure and culture and fictional universe and made it work.

I always thought the horus heresy and siege of Terra was based on the transformers movie.

Think about it see Optimus prime as the emperor and megatron as Horus then watch this and tell me its now play for play how it er plays out.




Except you know Sanguinius wasn't hot rod

but I still like to think the touch plays when the emperor does something awesome.

Sorry for the Necromancy but I was just playing with Bing's AI chat thingy and this thread was cited in answering my question about whether the Arbites are a rip off of Judge Dredd and should Rebellion sue.

The Adeptus Arbites were specifically modeled by the Games Workshop designers on Judge Dredd1. In fact, according to a post on dakkadakka.com, the Adeptus Arbites are the Imperium’s police force on planets and this is the part of 40k that borrows extensively from Judge Dredd. However, GW will claim they came up with this idea all on their own2.

I hope this helps!

Learn more:
1. warhammer40k.fandom.com
2. dakkadakka.com
3. wargamer.com
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Wow sick necro but fun topic. I read alot of judge dredd and certainly the earlier works heavily inspired gw. The most pressing example is the "land raider" tank introduced in the cursed earth sagas (year 2). It even has some visual similaities with the marine land raider. Also the space marine bikers and all the eagle wing symbols on the marines.

And last but not least the arbites.

 Gitdakka wrote:
Wow sick necro but fun topic. I read alot of judge dredd and certainly the earlier works heavily inspired gw. The most pressing example is the "land raider" tank introduced in the cursed earth sagas (year 2). It even has some visual similaities with the marine land raider. Also the space marine bikers and all the eagle wing symbols on the marines.

And last but not least the arbites.

I've heard that one before, but when you search "Judge Dredd Land Raider" what comes up doesn't look anything like the OG 40k Land Raider.

True but as far as I know no one else used the name before (even the Matchbox toy it was based on was called something else) so I don't think it's a stretch to assume the former makers of Judge Dredd games might have been inspired by it.

Also the whole Thacher-era parody the runs through both universes. Ah 80s Brits, you had not idea how bad it could get.

I mean "some similarities", not more than that.
Here is the rear section next to the og land raider


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The dredd land raider was published 1978, so i think gw stole the name

In my personal headcanon, 40K lore is a continuation of the Nemesis The Warlock lore, Nemesis is a follower of Tzeentch (Tzaangor Shaman to be exact), and the Imperium Of Man is Terra of Termight. You will never be able to convince me otherwise

Speaking of Rogue Trooper, I cannot unsee Solar Auxilia not looking like the Troopers enemy faction (forgot the name, are they norts or souths?)

It’s a more fun game trying to find the most original 40K ideas. TBf I think they’ve done pretty well with leagues of vottan unless someone can point me to some source material

 Filch wrote:
GW is the biggest copy cat! They go around stealing ideas and fighting in court. Their writters and artist came up with it on their own? Complete and udder cruddance.

Yeah, people here where I live now constantly get in to trouble for making FW stand ins, turrets for tanks, wheel and track replacment for GW models, shoulder pads, heads, guns etc. C&D, etsy gets purged on a regular basis. And then I flick through white dwarf and see a litteral rip off of Frazzettas Deathdealer being done as a nurgle champion.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
I always felt that Tau represented how GW views the US military, all high-tech but can't shoot worth a damn.

SJ

We were accurate enough shooting red coats to make them @#$% off back to their island so I'm not sure where they got that idea...

Toofast wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
I always felt that Tau represented how GW views the US military, all high-tech but can't shoot worth a damn.

SJ

We were accurate enough shooting red coats to make them @#$% off back to their island so I'm not sure where they got that idea...

I think this perception in 2015 (the year the post you quote was from) likely has far more to do with high-profile blue-on-blue incidents in Iraq than a war 250 years ago...

There was a pretty common perception that the US military would shoot first and ID later, and hit allied coalition troops as a result. Almost certainly an inaccurate perception on the whole, but there were a few incidents with CAS and artillery targeting the wrong structures etc.

As ever, folk aren’t looking at wider context.

2000AD and 40K share an origin. That of young men growing up during a distinct time period in British History. That of a country losing itself in post-Imperial and post-Industrial decline. And both being sci-fi, we can safely assume both sets were consuming the same media.

Mega-Blocks and Hive Cities don’t just satirise high-rise flats, but the failure of high rise flats. The general decay and no-go zones stem from remaining (very literal) bomb sites, and former bustling industrial areas being left to rot both literally and metaphorically.

There are shared aesthetics, sure. But even the “original” of those wouldn’t have been designed in a vacuum, itself lifting design cues and elements from real world and fictional sources.

To see Dredd borrowing from 40k? I’ll refer you to the excellent “Insurrection” by Abnett and MacNeil.

40k doesn't have single original idea in it, but yeah Arbites = Judges from 2000AD.

 Gitdakka wrote:
I mean "some similarities", not more than that.
Here is the rear section next to the og land raider

"Some similarities" seems like they just both use treads, honestly.

If you wand a more direct connection to the Dredd raider, there's a top down diagram in RT of example vehicle arcs or something. The drawn vehicle in the diagram looks like the full Dredd Raider from the top.

The 40k Land Raider sure looks unconnected though.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Gitdakka wrote:
I mean "some similarities", not more than that.
Here is the rear section next to the og land raider

"Some similarities" seems like they just both use treads, honestly.

If you wand a more direct connection to the Dredd raider, there's a top down diagram in RT of example vehicle arcs or something. The drawn vehicle in the diagram looks like the full Dredd Raider from the top.

The 40k Land Raider sure looks unconnected though.

Well and the dredd raider was also called land raider


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Look, when reading judge dredd cursed earth, you have judges, decorated with massive eagles, driving around their motorcycles with front mounted machineguns, escorting a land raider shooting it's laser cannons. Am i mad to draw some similarities here?

^Not mad at all. But saying the 40K Land Raider design is similar to the Dredd Raider is a big effin stretch.

Also remember the Land Raider from The Cursed Earth wasn’t just the tank. Indeed, the tank portion was the Killdozer. The Land Raider was the car.

The design itself was taken from Matchbox’s “Adventure 2000” range which pre-dated The Cursed Earth epic by a year or or so. Indeed the toy was offered a prize in the comic.



In the comic it also included a bike bay which from immediate memory held two Lawmaster Bikes.

Bonus fun but completely pointless fact? I actually had the rear section of the toy, one I picked up at a Jumble Sale in 198something as a nipper. Mostly because it looked cool. Never knew it’s history until I first read a collected volume of The Cursed Earth in the late 90’s early 00’s.

 Gitdakka wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Look, when reading judge dredd cursed earth, you have judges, decorated with massive eagles, driving around their motorcycles with front mounted machineguns, escorting a land raider shooting it's laser cannons. Am i mad to draw some similarities here?

The standard 40k bikes with their twin forward firing bolters were LITERALLY Judge Dredd models repurposed for GW's new game

The design aesthetic has been carried forward for 30 years.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I had the Land Raider and Killdozer too, got them in Caracas while visiting the Grandparents IIRC.

 Vache Glace wrote:
just wondering!

Among a hundred other things. GW loves to "borrow" other people's IP.

Start with the Cultural stereotypes:
Roman Ultramarines
Mongol White Scars
Teuton Dark Angels.


Then there's the fiction:
Alien vs Tyrranids.
Sly Marbo the Jungle Fighter.
Gaunt's Ghosts - Dirty Dozen
Custodes - Various Unification War fiction like Star Trek First Contact

And the Space Marines have even more "borrowing"

Biblical fallen angels, Civil War Brother Against Brother and so on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gitdakka wrote:


Well and the dredd raider was also called land raider

And BMW's Jeep is called a Land Rover, while Toyota called theirs the Land Cruiser.