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Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

Can you do the calculation quickly? I just don't want to waste a lot of time waiting. Other than that, go nuts. Just be fast. Under a minute.

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


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Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel





Brum

It would really annoy me and as any indepth probability calculation is essentially meaningless beyond a certain level when dealing with a small sample of events (which only requires basic mental arithmetic) there is also no need for it.

If you are seriously attempting to work out exact probabilities to the extent that you need a calculator during a game you are definitely doing 'it' wrong.

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Made in gb
[DCM]
Stonecold Gimster






While you're messing around with your tablet/surface trying to predict some sort of calculation.... I'm busy putting my figures back in their case and finding an opponent that wants to play the game.

I can't imagine many chess players being allowed (or trying) to pull out simulation scenarios on a laptop mid game.

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Currently most played: Silent Death, Xenos Rampant, Mars Code Aurora and Battletech.
I tried dabbling with 40k9/10 again and tried AoS3 - disliked both, but I'm enjoying HH2 and trying Battletech Classic and AS out 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




For me comes down to how long are you taking? if its quick I don't care, if its getting in the way of playing the game I do. This is a game with dice and a knowledge of probabilities helps, you can simulate and run all the models you like but its the dice you roll that count.

Be careful though, you risk becoming predictable and a crafty opponent will take advantage of that, if you have a simulation thats playing the game for you I want to see it
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






We play Kings of War using a chess clock... so take all the time you want with the calculator - the clock will keep ticking.

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in gb
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander





Ramsden Heath, Essex

If you feel the need to workout probabilities in what should be a fun game I say it's time to step away from the table.

But then I also follow the Solo School of decision making:

Never tell me the odds Goldenrod!

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Made in nz
Trustworthy Shas'vre






 kronk wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
Also, mathhammer might be a good indicator of what’s going to happen in the long term, but when it comes down to it, our fickle little 6-sided friends and their tart of a mistress, Lady Luck, have more to say about if you are getting that specific psychic power off then any calculations.


I put that power back in my hands by changing all of my 1 pips to 5 pips!

*Hi Five!


Change your 2-pips instead. If you change 1's then your opponent will be able to see two adjacent 5's and call you out. But 2's and 5's are opposite each other so its very difficult to tell.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the actual discussion...

Psychic powers are really the only thing in 40k that needs significant mathing. And for that, its best to just print out a handy sheet of probabilities (like the table found here: https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2016/01/26/mastering-the-psychic-phase/) Or alternatively: 50% chance = 2x WC cost - 1. 90% sure = 3x WC cost.

For the rest of 40k, 'expected results' (by multiplying the number of dice x probability of each success) is sufficient for most situations and you should be able to do it fairly quickly in your head. If you can't, don't pull out a calculator, just go with 'gut feel' rather than maths. Eg, you can probably work out '8 shots at BS4 S6, roughly 5 hits, 4 wounds, 1.5 past armour' in a few seconds, but if you can't get the exact numbers just think 'ok, most hit, nearly all wound, but most are stopped by armor. is it worth it?'

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/01 03:52:50


 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






There is also the RPGish aspect of it.

If I'm playing my Imperial Guard or vanilla Marines, I'll studiously evaluate whether my 8 shots at BS4S6 will wound. But the allied Death Company won't think twice about it. And back in the days when I played Orks, the worse the odds, the more exciting it would be to take a chance. Because they are Orks, after all!

The best part of the game can be when you defy the odds and roll some hot dice when you and your opponent know that you're not supposed to prevail
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






 Nevelon wrote:
 Talys wrote:
I have a Surface with Excel on it and an endless number of spreadsheets that model various possibilities

Practically, the number of uses during a real game, in an average of about 1,000 games is... zero However, it's cool, fun nerd-friendly stuff that I doubt anyone would mind if I actually punched in numbers.

The key to not annoying other people isn't the advantage you'd get, I'd imagine, it's taking longer for your turn.


It might be fun in the post-game BS session. “What were the odds of you flubbing that power? I should have been dead!” <clickity click> “2.3%"


This, or sometimes right after the roll if both you and your opponent are left flabbergasted, and really want to figure it out. "What are the odds that your Company Commander with a laspistol would have successfully gunned down two separate, wounded Canoptek Wraiths** like that?" "Surely very low, let's find out!" *Roughly a minute or two later* "Wow, only about .5% chance! That's one manly Commander!" etc. etc.

**Back when the Wraiths were T4. At T5, the probability would be only about .13% chance.

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Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 KommissarKiln wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
 Talys wrote:
I have a Surface with Excel on it and an endless number of spreadsheets that model various possibilities

Practically, the number of uses during a real game, in an average of about 1,000 games is... zero However, it's cool, fun nerd-friendly stuff that I doubt anyone would mind if I actually punched in numbers.

The key to not annoying other people isn't the advantage you'd get, I'd imagine, it's taking longer for your turn.


It might be fun in the post-game BS session. “What were the odds of you flubbing that power? I should have been dead!” <clickity click> “2.3%"


This, or sometimes right after the roll if both you and your opponent are left flabbergasted, and really want to figure it out. "What are the odds that your Company Commander with a laspistol would have successfully gunned down two separate, wounded Canoptek Wraiths** like that?" "Surely very low, let's find out!" *Roughly a minute or two later* "Wow, only about .5% chance! That's one manly Commander!" etc. etc.

**Back when the Wraiths were T4. At T5, the probability would be only about .13% chance.
Most people don't even know how to calculate those sorts of probabilities
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero





Rampton, UK

 wuestenfux wrote:
 Rayvon wrote:
I would not like it, there is a time and a place.

It is a game you are playing not an exact science.


There is a random component that cannot be neglected.
As a rule, each probability above 50% is good and should be considered.


Very true, but woking out these probabilites in our head is part of the game as far as i m concerned.
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

I wouldn't complain about any calculation technique as long as it isn't causing an unnecessary delay of game.

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Charing Cold One Knight





Sticksville, Texas

I played 40k as a beer and pretzels game with my friends, of course there will be obviously bad choices, better choices and the cinematic choices. But since neither of us were out to make each other nerd rage by min maxing out armies and decisions, we would normally pick the cinematic choice to brag about how glorious the victory or defeat of said choice was.

I personally wouldn't want to play against somebody who only cares about making the most optimized choice for victory. If you can't just make a gut decision and live with the (in-game) consequences, than in my eyes you are taking playing a game with small toy soldiers way too seriously. I play miniature games for fun, and to socially interact with my opponent face to face instead of through a television or computer. Quick on the fly calculations, sure, do your thing. Pen and paper long math, nope, I will pack my stuff up and go play somebody else.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/04 21:08:52


 
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Ask your TO. Doing a calculation before critical decisions is fine, but if done regularly, it can easily be ruled as slow play and net you a warning or worse.

   
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Stabbin' Skarboy






I wouldn't mind so long as you were playing Mechanicus : )

All Orks, All Da Zoggin' TIme. 'Cause Da Rest of You Gitz is Just Muckin' About, Waitin' ta Get Krumped.
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