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 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Orks are the only ones where their faction rule actually hurts them rather than help them. When your own rule is actively out to get you, there's something wrong.

You mean like Champion of Chaos, which does more harm than good?

Orks have no equivalent to Be'lakor and the Heldrake in strength, but they have a plethora of decent units - in the context of the competition - such as tankbustas and mek guns. I am not convinced they are weakest.

I wanna say that CSM are the weakest, but I still stand by the fact that the DE codex is the WORST codex ever written.

Champions of Chaos at most only affects your characters and half of the results are still good. Mob rule is going to hurt your orks one way or another and affects entire units; my Plague Marines can still function just fine with their champion being turned into uncooked cookie dough but my Lootas are clenching their nuts every time they're forced to roll on that Mob Rule table.

As for "good" units, for every "good" unit Orks have, Chaos has a great one, if only from FW.

Basically, at least some chaos units draw people's ire. Orks have no units that even make it on the radar.

Remember that Champion of Chaos also forces you to issue/accept challenges, which is very bad.

Mob rule could actually make your Orks stay longer than they would without it.

That said, if you include FW, Chaos probably pull ahead because FW adds a lot of mid tier units that naturally dominate a fight between two bottom codices.

I voted for both CSM and Orks.

I play Orks and find my codex really just boils down to using the same few units over and over or I just lose. I have to spam warbikers, tank bustas and mega nobz with a deff kopta or two or its just game over.

I also voted for Chaos space marines because my friend plays them a lot and he is always fighting an up hill battle without using a lot of FW or spamming helldrakes. Now if he uses FW and the best of his codex (Hell drakes) then he does pretty well.

In both cases they seem to HAVE to bring the absolute best in their codex to have a chance.

 Drasius wrote:
Coin flip between CSM/IG/Orks/DE with BA and 'Nids a close second (BA have grav and bikes as troops, 'Nids have Flyrants and Mawlocks).

None of the above can really compete with anything outside of their own little kiddy splashpool where they'll reliably get stomped by the mid-tier dexes.

BA do not have biker troops.

In terms of rules and aesthetics/model range?

Sisters and CSM - both have ancient model ranges, both are dated books or digital books and both lack any of the 'core' elements of 7th ed (Formations and Decurions boys) without resorting to ally shenanigans.

In terms of function?

Orks and Tyranids - both armies have lost their way and seem to have fallen into strange hybrid builds that go so far from their concept it hurts. Tyranids have become a shooting army. Orks are a ghetto shooting army. Neither of which truly functions as a horde army anymore because their Troops are point-sinking chaff and there are a number of horrendously overcosted units bloating their other options.

Blood Angels fall here with Dark Eldar as well - again, they don't seem to function as their intended purpose...and in the case of these two there are other 'counterpart' armies that do their job and fill their concept BETTER. What Assaulting Marines? SM do it better and have more options. Want an Eldar Raiding Force? Corsairs are for you my friend.

Hopefully all of these low end armies are among the first to receive a new codex in 8th edition.

CSM got the first codex in 6th edition and I have to say that did not work out well even back then.

Tau 2% [ 7 ]
Dark Angels 0% [ 1 ]
Space Marines 0% [ 2 ]
Cult Mechanicus 0% [ 1 ]
Imperial Knights 1% [ 3 ]
Craftworlds 2% [ 10 ]
Skitarii 0% [ 1 ]
Necrons 1% [ 4 ]
Grey Knights 1% [ 5 ]
Space Wolves 0% [ 1 ]
Astra Militarum 6% [ 26 ]
Tyranids 12% [ 55 ]
Adepta Sororitas 8% [ 37 ]
Chaos Daemons 2% [ 7 ]

All of these that I just listed shouldn't even be on there. They are by far NOT the weakest armies in any sense of the word. The fact they got votes is people just fething around because you gave them the opportunity to.

 Ashiraya wrote:
CSM got the first codex in 6th edition and I have to say that did not work out well even back then.

Aye, it was pretty much Hellturkey spam that gave the army any teeth.

 Quickjager wrote:

Tau 2% [ 7 ]
Dark Angels 0% [ 1 ]
Space Marines 0% [ 2 ]
Cult Mechanicus 0% [ 1 ]
Imperial Knights 1% [ 3 ]
Craftworlds 2% [ 10 ]
Skitarii 0% [ 1 ]
Necrons 1% [ 4 ]
Grey Knights 1% [ 5 ]
Space Wolves 0% [ 1 ]
Astra Militarum 6% [ 26 ]
Tyranids 12% [ 55 ]
Adepta Sororitas 8% [ 37 ]
Chaos Daemons 2% [ 7 ]

All of these that I just listed shouldn't even be on there. They are by far NOT the weakest armies in any sense of the word. The fact they got votes is people just fething around because you gave them the opportunity to.

Apart from AM, you mean? Even CSM can give them a bad day.

 Selym wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:

Tau 2% [ 7 ]
Dark Angels 0% [ 1 ]
Space Marines 0% [ 2 ]
Cult Mechanicus 0% [ 1 ]
Imperial Knights 1% [ 3 ]
Craftworlds 2% [ 10 ]
Skitarii 0% [ 1 ]
Necrons 1% [ 4 ]
Grey Knights 1% [ 5 ]
Space Wolves 0% [ 1 ]
Astra Militarum 6% [ 26 ]
Tyranids 12% [ 55 ]
Adepta Sororitas 8% [ 37 ]
Chaos Daemons 2% [ 7 ]

All of these that I just listed shouldn't even be on there. They are by far NOT the weakest armies in any sense of the word. The fact they got votes is people just fething around because you gave them the opportunity to.

Apart from AM, you mean? Even CSM can give them a bad day.

CSM only give them a bad day if the CSM player put as much effort into the list as possible and the AM player only did so a little bit. The CSM codex is THAT bad.

AM is still horribad though

 Drasius wrote:
Coin flip between CSM/IG/Orks/DE with BA and 'Nids a close second (BA have grav and bikes as troops, 'Nids have Flyrants and Mawlocks).

None of the above can really compete with anything outside of their own little kiddy splashpool where they'll reliably get stomped by the mid-tier dexes.

BA don't have bikes as troops though. And they only have gravguns and not grav cannons.

If you're looking for just one worst, the only answer is csm. Dark Eldar and CsM need ground up overhauls of their rules- the core is just rotten.

Guard, BA, Tyranids and Orks just need modernization and a clunky rule clean out. Good formations might even fix ba and orks.

For whatever reason though, gw is still releasing more and more rules for power armor loyalist armies.

Lol why is this even a competition: Legion of the Damned can't even survive turn one as a stand alone army

Ha! Hahahah! Orks? Chaos Space marines? Please, you actually have guns, flyers, HQ choices and even armour saves you lucky people you...

you have never had to endure the humiliation of an army that is mono harliquins, nor friends that will suddenly have deep striking flamer templates whenever you bust out ze clowns.

But no seriously, harlequins are insanely bad, that Eldar and Dark Eldar are actually stronger in almost nay configuration without harlequin allies.

(Yeah - I'm a little bitter, and the deathwatch release with flamer shotguns and flamer heavy bolters have got me triggered lol)

Your mono harlies can keep mono Stormtroopers company.

 Selym wrote:
AM is still horribad though

They really aren't. They are at least a shooting list in a shooting edition. They aren't trying to futilely bumble their meqs across the table into melee like CSM or BA.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I wanna say that CSM are the weakest, but I still stand by the fact that the DE codex is the WORST codex ever written.

You haven't read the Tyranid Codex than, bro.

 Blacksails wrote:
Your mono harlies can keep mono Stormtroopers company.

Militarum Tempestus? Stormtroopers are known for their flyers, to which we have absolutely no answer for, and I'd gladly take a Taurox against half a dozen Starweavers!

True, they're bad but at least they are usable...

Usable is a strong word for their current position. Point is, these so called 'armies' that are nothing more than a glorified allied detachment should hardly count in determining the weakest army, seeing as the tiny allied armies just don't have all the tools to be effective on their own.

 Blacksails wrote:
Usable is a strong word for their current position. Point is, these so called 'armies' that are nothing more than a glorified allied detachment should hardly count in determining the weakest army, seeing as the tiny allied armies just don't have all the tools to be effective on their own.

True, but as I said: It becomes a problem when the inclusion of said faction as allies actively weakens the main army.

Besides, if they can be fielded as a solo army on it's own in a single detachment they deserve a discussion based on it's viability.

 Torus wrote:
Ha! Hahahah! Orks? Chaos Space marines? Please, you actually have guns, flyers, HQ choices and even armour saves you lucky people you...

you have never had to endure the humiliation of an army that is mono harliquins, nor friends that will suddenly have deep striking flamer templates whenever you bust out ze clowns.

But no seriously, harlequins are insanely bad, that Eldar and Dark Eldar are actually stronger in almost nay configuration without harlequin allies.

(Yeah - I'm a little bitter, and the deathwatch release with flamer shotguns and flamer heavy bolters have got me triggered lol)

That's funny, the ally only army wants to complain that they're not as good as the Grey Knights or the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Tyranids are the last dog at the bone, they're a stand alone army that's comparably as bad as or worse than the Harlequins and taking allies to solve the problem can actually make it worse.

Their best saves are cover saves, in an edition where cover saves are laughed at and even being outside of line of sight doesn't mean protection, they're THE monstrous creature army with the worst and most expensive Monstrous Creatures bar none. The only vehicle that can ferry the 'Nids into their enemy's face is a drop pod that gets blown away along with its cargo before the rest of the army can catch up. Considering that the hive mind is supposed to be the shadow in the warp their psychic defense is a joke. Rending got nerfed to the point where a Land Raider can go out Nid stomping and be more concerned about getting immobilised than getting torn up by a pack of Gene Stealers, you know, the Land Raiders people complain are fragile and not worth their points? Any Tyranid player would sell their soul for masks that prevent overwatch or actual armour saves.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

That's funny, the ally only army wants to complain that they're not as good as the Grey Knights or the Adeptus Mechanicus.

Tyranids are the last dog at the bone, they're a stand alone army that's comparably as bad as or worse than the Harlequins and taking allies to solve the problem can actually make it worse.

The only ally army? Should Chaos Space Marines be an ally only army since they are pretty much only used to grab the Belakor Dataslate in conjunction with a Helldrake or Imperial knights, which only have 1 unit and yet we see entire lists consisting in only Imperial knights all the time! Hell, anything that allies with harlequins actively becomes worse! So yeah, you're damn right I'm upset about it.

At least you have a competitive build in the flyrant spam that we've seen before so many times !

My friends and me have been playing for the last couple of years using AM, SOB, Orcs, Tyranids, Black Templars and CSM. Once or twice a year our Eldar buddy walks in and wipes the floor with our armies.

In my opinion you should let the Eldar, Vanilla SM, Mechanicum, Tau and Necrons play amongst themselves and everything's just fine.

Pretty bad Poll...GK are clearly the worst army in the game.

Militarum Tempestos can barely even be considered a codex.

The army is not very functional to be perfectly honest. (I'm considering each in an "On their own" basis).

 Xenomancers wrote:
Pretty bad Poll...GK are clearly the worst army in the game.

Clearly. I mean those Dreadknights are just worthless. (But still better than anything in C:BA, C:Orks, or C:CSM)