Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

BaronVonSnakPak wrote:


That's an entirely subjective belief, though. Anyone could argue that the games you listed don't need the 40K IP either.

I'd like to see someone argue that a game like Space Marine would be better off if it wasn't a 40k game, or that'd it'd be just as fun or interesting without it. The problem DOW3 has is that it doesn't make use of something that 40k is well known for, whereas Space Marine does in it's lore, character development and combat.

You don't like the graphics or the base building (which is something fans of the original hated DoW2 for lacking), which is fine, but it doesn't make it a waste of the license. Every artist has their own take on a subjective, this style just isn't for you apparently.

Never said I didn't like the graphics outside of the ridiculous model scaling; we had a long discussion about base building in the thread I made a while back (I linked it in my original post here) and how it's something people think is good in a lot of games when it's actually just taking time away from doing any fighting to having to build and manage resources. It's also an incredibly lore unfriendly mechanic.

Which brings me to what I'm saying about DOW3 not needing the licence to do what it's doing - nothing it has shown off has done anything unique or well known to the 40k universe other than the units, which for all intents and purposes are programs with skins on them. We've heard nothing about the story, the mechanics and structural organisation of the armies and their units in the game is not lore accurate, nor are their survivability in the field, and to top it off, we've got barely any of the soundtrack or voice acting, both of which so far sound sub par.

Compare this to DOW2, which removed base building to not only bring focus onto to fighting across the map, but to also add some sense of believably. Unit organisation was small and more representative of the strength of each individual person in a squad (Space Marine Tactical Squads only had 3 Marines in them, Guardsman Squads had around 8), and each army genuinely felt different to handle and play with. Plus we have a soundtrack that most people can agree on being a perfect encapsulation of the 40k universe, and high quality voice acting and story that had a lot of effort put into it.

Nobody's point on these particular intricacies of the game are fully objective, but I'm not being entirely subjective here either. It should make sense to a lot of people how DOW3 isn't putting in any effort to reflect well on the 40k licence. That, or they haven't shown off anything that is doing well in that regard, such as the story. As far as I'm concerned, the graphics and art style look bright and interesting (you don't have to take grimdark literally all the time people), but graphics are often one of the least important factors in a strategy game, and most games in general.

G.A

 Vertrucio wrote:
Not sure what oil smudged glasses people are watching all tabletop gaming through, but 40K has always had a lot of color in it. Bright green orks with red splashed everywhere, brightly colored Space Marines and Eldar. Multicolored flares of Chaos magic.

40K would be a very boring place if it was as black and white as some people think.

Indeed, some of the examples stated here are dark because of circumstance, not because the 40k universe has a darkness filter over everyone's eyes.

Okay, so I am not the only one thinking this.

Funny that one of the complainers mentions the Space Marine game. This is made by the exact same studio using the exact same art design and color palette.

Nostalgia can blind you to a fun experience just as much as it might make you love an old one. Likewise, being preconditioned just to generically hate something has the same effect.

Go and take a look at side by side comparisons of DoW1, 2, and 3, Space Marine, and more.

 Vertrucio wrote:
Funny that one of the complainers mentions the Space Marine game. This is made by the exact same studio using the exact same art design and color palette.

I hope you're not talking about what I said here, because 1. THQ and Relic were bought out when they went bankrupt by Sega, and trust me they aren't the same now, 2. I didn't even complain about the art design (I actually like it apart from the stupid model scaling), and 3. Space Marine doesn't actually have the same art design and colour palette as DOW3, the difference between their art styles is like night and day.

Can we get the triple facepalm in here please?

Nostalgia can blind you to a fun experience just as much as it might make you love an old one. Likewise, being preconditioned just to generically hate something has the same effect.

Go and take a look at side by side comparisons of DoW1, 2, and 3, Space Marine, and more.

As someone who actually cares about games, I love to be proved wrong when I'm cynical about a new game, and envy people who do have fun with a lot of games that I can't enjoy because of their particular directions. But I still look at DOW3 as objectively as possible and still see glaring flaws in what appears to be its design as a strategy game and its representation of the universe.

I have recently been back to DOW1 and 2, and found that DOW1 has not aged well at all; DOW2 still holds up despite it being 5 years since its last expansion, and hell it even still has a multiplayer community. That Sega chose to throw everything that was achieved and learned in DOW2 out the window to make DOW3 baffles me.

DOW3's art style doesn't bother me - I actually quite like the almost flat shaded appearance of it, and the visual effects look much more impressive than what DOW2 had. But who cares about that when there are so many other problems with the game itself that are far more important than what it looks like.

G.A

It is too hard to make a call when nobody has even played the bloody game yet. No Man's Sky helps prove that you shouldn't judge a book by its cover and wait until you open the gakky pages inside.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It is too hard to make a call when nobody has even played the bloody game yet. No Man's Sky helps prove that you shouldn't judge a book by its cover and wait until you open the gakky pages inside.

Absolutely, but nobody can expect us not to have an opinion before we play after they release gameplay and trailers - that's the whole point of them; hopefully they yield positive opinions that will get people to buy the game.

Hmmm exact same colour pallet and same design......hmmmm

Ok lets take a look and get to see why people are annoyed.

Space marine offered a gritty look at the 40k universe, the marines looked massive had bulk and all looked like they had been to hell and back. Yes they were bright blue but the armour was chipped, weathered and looked real.



The settings in Dawn of War 2 made the 40k universe come to life, the units had a more realistic look and animation, this was partly down to the game using similar traits from Company of Heros.



Dawn of War 3 just looks like a cell shaded cartoon, I get that some people dig this look but for me I can't stand it. I mean it looks good in games like Boarderlands as thats their thing but an RTS? It just makes it look cheap.

Honestly, I don't get the complaint about 'its too bright'. I think it looks just fine. There's a lot of flashing pew pew effects, I guess, but the units and icons all look spot on. Plus, it's still alpha, or maybe beta stage at this point. Give them some time to finish before calling it terrible.

The only complaint that I register with is gabe being able to leap-smash like 50 feet in terminator armor. That is a little silly. Cinematic, but silly.

Still waiting for ork gameplay. I, for one, want to see how they're going to model orkanauts to move. Have you ever looked at the model? It does not look like it can actually walk, other than maybe scooting forward like a dog scraping its ass across a carpet.

I think a lot of the brightness issue is what was explained in the interview video where they were showing how the background was blue and white and the character models had high contrast against this.

There are many things I don't like about the graphics though. The devastator marines having that rocking animation gets quite old. The odd 'mistimed', exaggerated walking animation of the Space Marines is also a bit annoying after awhile. I am also 100% against what they did with the hero animations.

But overall the game looks good and while I'm disappointed to not see the execution animations from DOW1 and DOW2, I'm not a huge fan of the channeled las cannons and various attacks, and I'm certainly not a fan of the exaggerated animations of the Knight, it's not an awful looking game.

It just looks like they're trying too hard to be StarCraft as opposed to Dawn of War.