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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




There is hope. I'm sure that when sales lag a bit, they will advance the storyline and have Tryion force Slaanesh to regurgitate all of the Elves he devourered, and we should be seeing some new "Aelf" releases. High Elves were far too popular a faction to leave in their current state.
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

The point was the factions were split up at the same time that Tomb Kings and Bretonnians were basically discontinued.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 Ghaz wrote:
The point was the factions were split up at the same time that Tomb Kings and Bretonnians were basically discontinued.


and because tomb kings and bretonnians, especially tomb kings, were not split up to hung onto the competitive viability that was robbed from the split up factions. All the rampant enthusiasm circulating for bretonnians and tomb kings is exactly for this reason.

This neatly returns the conversation to the still unanswered original question I posed, "why were the highborn and exiles stripped of their unifying keyword?" was it oversight or some deliberate attempt to destroy the faction in any competitive setting?
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






I doubt it was a deliberate attempt to undermine their effectiveness in a tournament setting, both because GW isn't that competent at rules design and because the raw points costs of the GHB ensure that anyway. Tomb Kings aren't strong because they didn't get split up, they are strong because of how massively overpowered Chariots and Settra are. The super-strong lists literally ignore 2/3 of the faction.

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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I doubt it was a deliberate attempt to undermine their effectiveness in a tournament setting, both because GW isn't that competent at rules design and because the raw points costs of the GHB ensure that anyway. Tomb Kings aren't strong because they didn't get split up, they are strong because of how massively overpowered Chariots and Settra are. The super-strong lists literally ignore 2/3 of the faction.


Sounds like it might be incompetence then. You're the one who put together the revised points recommendations for units that are one of the most popular threads on this forum right? Assuming that's you, you must have noticed that the default generals handbook points are far from balanced, my own calculations have born out that conclusion as well. When I presented my analysis I was angrily shouted down on reddit and TGA by rabid fanboys who got angry about evidence of their favorite units giving them an inherent advantage because of being point for point orders of magnitude more efficient.

Its easy to speculate that if Tomb Kings had been split up, a la aelves Death dwarves, that the command abilities and passive buffs would have be utterly neutered the same way the afore mentioned armies suffered.

Edited to add that it looks like someone called Atilla did the revised points, my mistake.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/07 19:44:20


 
   
Made in ph
Scouting Shadow Warrior




I think GW split up the aelf factions thinking they would probably expand on them later on when they get their own battletomes or what not. They were organized more or less according a certain theme that they follow. Synergy and efficiency and what not were not really considered as an issue as you could always just use the older warscrolls instead. When the GHB came out with official points, synergy immediately becomes a problem as some people would insist on using only the latest scrolls as they consider the points valid only for the current ones.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




aquietfrog wrote:
I think GW split up the aelf factions thinking they would probably expand on them later on when they get their own battletomes or what not. They were organized more or less according a certain theme that they follow. Synergy and efficiency and what not were not really considered as an issue as you could always just use the older warscrolls instead. When the GHB came out with official points, synergy immediately becomes a problem as some people would insist on using only the latest scrolls as they consider the points valid only for the current ones.


You do know that they already had themes right? High Aelves are a theme, a great theme, with a history going back decades. Same for Wood and Dark Aelves. I don't buy that they were broken up to follow any theme, or aesthetic, especially because many of the new "aelf factions" are composed of units with completely different aesthetics.
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut




When new Aelven books come out they will either be one of these small factions OR a completely new faction. THe book will have it's own allegiance bonus, weapons items spells etc so playing with non faction stuff will be very sub par... so just pick a faction you want to play, proxy your old elves for whatever you need.
Only my wanderers escaped this mostly intact (except for loosing most of our most flavorfull units - wardancers, warhawk riders, waywatchers - but that isn't much of a problem since new stuff will be full of the new flavour) which is why I fear they will not be updated anytime soon. (I assume light and shadow realm and associated aelves will be what happens first Aelvish wise).
   
Made in ph
Scouting Shadow Warrior




buffalozap wrote:
aquietfrog wrote:
I think GW split up the aelf factions thinking they would probably expand on them later on when they get their own battletomes or what not. They were organized more or less according a certain theme that they follow. Synergy and efficiency and what not were not really considered as an issue as you could always just use the older warscrolls instead. When the GHB came out with official points, synergy immediately becomes a problem as some people would insist on using only the latest scrolls as they consider the points valid only for the current ones.


You do know that they already had themes right? High Aelves are a theme, a great theme, with a history going back decades. Same for Wood and Dark Aelves. I don't buy that they were broken up to follow any theme, or aesthetic, especially because many of the new "aelf factions" are composed of units with completely different aesthetics.


I know they had themes. I have been playing since 8th edition at least. What I think is they intended tosplit them by province or city. Except caledor or cothique or lothern doesnt really exist any more so they had free reign to assign which ever troop to what ever faction they wished or thought fit the fluff, or whatever the higher ups decided was gonna help them get profit at the time.

I'm not saying it was a good decision. I own both high and dark aelves (and suddenly i also have wanderers because the sisters got transfered) and it has affected how I play. I'm still hoping that their allegiance will focus on the aelf keyword at least, or they will reintroduce the highborn or exile keyword or something similar like.maybe shadowkin or some such.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I'm trying to be an optimist, and believing that GW is playing the long game. With the new Made to order announcement, it tells me that they have delved into 3D printing. If it pans out, then GW can expand their range infinitely, and not have to worry about inventory. We may see high Elf stuff come back, and new factions coming out.
   
Made in nl
Regular Dakkanaut




I think that while GW supports their old races with rules (which was needed or AoS would be dead now) they will also want to sell new models. Now Aelfs can go the way of the Death faction, with a book without new models or they can go Ironjaws (army with new models - though to be fair the bone splittaz are mostly old models). Considering we've seen a new Aelf aesthetic in both silver tower models I'm thinking it's going to be new models and a new faction where the old models will not have a significant role since they are completely different in appearance (as opposed to the Sylvaneth releases which have new releases with an aesthetic which is very similar and only adds to the race (Kurnoth hunters and Drycha nearly similar to what they already had in treemen and the revanants which while adding the new aelven look to the models also have the tree-ish part of them which makes them instantly recognizable as Sylvaneth).

I think it's a bit optimistic to think the new aelven factions will have command abilities which target all aelves instead of their own faction. And considering the wording of the allegiance rules it's unlikely you will be able to take the "old" aelves without breaking your allegiance (so you'd be order allegiance but won't be able to use the spells and items that allegiance will be likely to get).

On the otherhand that order list that was posted on here the last days (2x hurricanum and 2x phoenix shows that even general order allegiance lists can be very nasty).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Bonzai wrote:
I'm trying to be an optimist, and believing that GW is playing the long game. With the new Made to order announcement, it tells me that they have delved into 3D printing. If it pans out, then GW can expand their range infinitely, and not have to worry about inventory. We may see high Elf stuff come back, and new factions coming out.


I'm not sure made to order has anything to do with 3D printing. I think they just have some molds lying around which still can produce models of acceptable quality.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/09 07:37:04


 
   
 
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