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The Chaos Dwarf fiasco, the Tau Terrain fiasco, a host of other minor smoke n mirrors incidents. Coupled with the owner's frankly bizarre business structure, opinions and odd streams of consciousness on videos.

Yeah, my money would go nowhere near this company. Ever.

 techsoldaten wrote:
This is all useful feedback.

Let's ask the question another way. How much would you expect to pay for a commission on a Space Wolves army, consisting of:

- 1 HQ
- 1 Long Fangs squad (10 models)
- 1 Tactical Squad (10 models)
- 1 Dread

... all done to a tabletop standard, with base colors, 1 level of shadow, and 1 level of highlight? Does anyone have any comparisons?

When I commission painted during college on the side that would be $25 to build + $60 to paint to the lowest quality level I offered + Shipping Cost. Taking low quality jobs tend to pay about $10/hr which as soon as I was out of college that became a joke. I now only paint for myself and one client thats a friend of mine.

I can show you at least 6 more low quality SM armies (no SW's) that were about this cost (The entire army to build paint 8 Vehicles~ + 80 Marines would generally be around $500). This would net you a 10-14/20 on a GT painting score.

- Prime, Basecoat, Layer, Wash
- No Drilled Barrels
- Basic Bases, some cork - some grass
- Maximum 1 highlight
- 2 week turn around

Those marines, while not very well done, are completely decent tabletop-standard miniatures, and would be fine at the $10 per hour price point.

Commission work seems pretty unnecessary to me overall, unless people have money to burn or want an especially beautiful paint job for a specific model. I don't like the idea of entire armies being commissioned out (mainly because of high price, time, and removing the artistic side of modelling) but that's just me.

I would think that nearly anyone, with a bit of research and practice, could produce marines equal to or better than those above.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Those marines, while not very well done, are completely decent tabletop-standard miniatures, and would be fine at the $10 per hour price point.

Commission work seems pretty unnecessary to me overall, unless people have money to burn or want an especially beautiful paint job for a specific model. I don't like the idea of entire armies being commissioned out (mainly because of high price, time, and removing the artistic side of modelling) but that's just me.

I would think that nearly anyone, with a bit of research and practice, could produce marines equal to or better than those above.

Sure thing, I'll just un-damage the nerves in my arm with a bit of research. :|

But hey, I'm sure I could find something that you don't do in the hobby that I can belittle you about, huh.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Those marines, while not very well done, are completely decent tabletop-standard miniatures, and would be fine at the $10 per hour price point.

Commission work seems pretty unnecessary to me overall, unless people have money to burn or want an especially beautiful paint job for a specific model. I don't like the idea of entire armies being commissioned out (mainly because of high price, time, and removing the artistic side of modelling) but that's just me.

I would think that nearly anyone, with a bit of research and practice, could produce marines equal to or better than those above.

It's all an issue of time for most people. If I add up the time it took me to paint my Tyranid army, it's over 200 hours and took me 3 years to complete. My Night Goblin army was full of speed painted models and it STILL took around 130 hours at a quick guess and it's only about 1250pts

I don't see me ever painting a full army again, I just don't have the patience anymore. I started working on my Space Hulk set again and by my calcs it'll be about 50 hours to paint the Terminators and another 40ish to do the Genestealers. And it's certainly not painted to what many would consider a high standard.

Then you also have high end painters, who paint stuff at a level of quality I will *never* achieve. I can see why someone might commission one of them.... though personally I don't place a high value on displaying wargaming miniatures so I'd never pay for a high end piece.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Those marines, while not very well done, are completely decent tabletop-standard miniatures, and would be fine at the $10 per hour price point.

Commission work seems pretty unnecessary to me overall, unless people have money to burn or want an especially beautiful paint job for a specific model. I don't like the idea of entire armies being commissioned out (mainly because of high price, time, and removing the artistic side of modelling) but that's just me.

I would think that nearly anyone, with a bit of research and practice, could produce marines equal to or better than those above.

Exactly!

On the other hand - if you're a wealthy guy that works around the clock I can understand getting any army commission painting. The majority of my clients were guys in their 30s-40s with kids, career and families. I've never personally paid for someone to paint an army for me - but thats because I can paint to the standard I use on the table top. Time constraints - even with my painting ability turns any project I have into a 6-12 month project instead of a few weeks or a lower quality rush job. A few guys on the 40k ATC/ETC get their armies pro painting - they just don't have time for it.

I had fun spending over a year to paint 150+ points of Circle, but I no longer have the time to paint another army like it until maybe next summer. I'm working on my table/terrain for well over a year at this point... and still have "twelve weekends" or so left since I can only really paint on Sundays

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Commission work seems pretty unnecessary to me overall, unless people have money to burn or want an especially beautiful paint job for a specific model. I don't like the idea of entire armies being commissioned out (mainly because of high price, time, and removing the artistic side of modelling) but that's just me.

Just because you may possibly be able to paint to the same quality as a commission painter, doesn't mean commissions are unnecessary - people may not have the time to paint a horde of miniatures, or they can't work well to a schedule, like me for instance.

Plus, getting to a point where you can paint at that level can take a very long time indeed. It took me 6 years to get to (just about) high end tabletop quality. Some people may not be willing to spend that long, or simply may not be able to paint even if they try due to injuries and other limitations, like curran said.

Sure, it makes sense not to commission out if you feel like you can do the same, or better, and have the time to do it. Not everyone is in that position though.

G.A

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Commission work seems pretty unnecessary to me overall, unless people have money to burn or want an especially beautiful paint job for a specific model. I don't like the idea of entire armies being commissioned out (mainly because of high price, time, and removing the artistic side of modelling) but that's just me.

It unfortunately isn't just you. This opinion, or ones similar to it, crop up in most commission painting threads. And it is rather ignorant of the factors that push people to choose commission painting over painting themselves.

As curran12 pointed out sometimes there is a physical limitation that prevents a player from assembling and painting an army.

Sometimes it is a time factor--work + kids/family + whatever other life events you have often trump hobby time in terms of priorities, so getting an army from sprue to display case can take months or years for some people and that investment in time isn't worthwhile.

Lack of interest may be a factor. The hobby is diverse, and different aspects appeal to different people. I personally like assembling and playing the games more than I like painting. Painting is dull, and if I am going to spend money and time on expensive models I want them to look as good as possible-- which is where a commission painter comes in. Someone with skills more advanced than mine can create the aesthetic for a model or army that I can't produce on my own. That is worth money to me. This hobby is about aesthetics more than anything in my opinion, so paying to have a beautiful army is just another cost associated with the hobby.

The counter-argument that having someone else paint or assemble your models reduces the artistic merit of the models is one I have issues with for a few reasons.

1: An army is being created and painted and will exist where previously it may not have. This adds artistic value to the hobby overall, and makes the gaming experience of everyone who interacts with the commissioned army better. In short the gaming community gains from a well-painted commissioned army existing.

2. Some people produce pretty awful armies on their own. While they may pour their hearts into the poorly glued bits of plastic slathered in paint, the army itself might be lacking because that person isn't an artist, or only wanted to achieve the bare minimum in order to get their army on the table (again, people's priorities are different in terms of this hobby). I'd argue those types of armies add less to the gaming experience of a gaming community because there isn't much to make those armies stand out. Most of us have seen a hastily assembled Space Marine army, or Necrons spray painted gun metal with a few details picked out. Those aren't necessarily engaging people's imaginations the same way that a unique, well-painted and assembled army will.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
I would think that nearly anyone, with a bit of research and practice, could produce marines equal to or better than those above.

Who has the time for that? Honestly, not everyone can devote the "10,000 hours" to get good at something. Especially if that something isn't of particular interest to you or is physically impossible.

 curran12 wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Those marines, while not very well done, are completely decent tabletop-standard miniatures, and would be fine at the $10 per hour price point.

Commission work seems pretty unnecessary to me overall, unless people have money to burn or want an especially beautiful paint job for a specific model. I don't like the idea of entire armies being commissioned out (mainly because of high price, time, and removing the artistic side of modelling) but that's just me.

I would think that nearly anyone, with a bit of research and practice, could produce marines equal to or better than those above.

Sure thing, I'll just un-damage the nerves in my arm with a bit of research. :|

But hey, I'm sure I could find something that you don't do in the hobby that I can belittle you about, huh.

No idea where you're coming from on this, but no offense was intended if you're disabled. I'm not "belittling" anyone by stating the above opinion, just reiterating that I think the models in the picture above are achievable with a little time invested by almost anyone able to do so.

I understand there are lots of reasons people decide to opt for commission painting, I would just never choose to do so. When I got into 40K, I knew that painting up the force was a part of it, and I was fine investing the time and attempting to learn a new skill. Not trying to put anyone down because they choose differently.

Not to be too blunt about it, but I've lived years with this nerve damage, and I've been told dozens of times "oh why do you commission armies, just do some practice", usually with the same kind of sneer of 'you're removing the artistic side of the hobby' as well. Your intent may not have been to belittle, but when you out and out say that it removes something of the hobby, it is a clear message that by commissioning armies, I am somehow not as fully invested as you.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
the Tau Terrain fiasco,

Tau terrain fiasco? That's one I missed.

The price on those tyranids is beyond ridiculous though. When I budget something for commission painting, I usually use a $20/hour to estimate how much I want to spend. $700 at what I consider an adequate baseline rate would be a day and half of continuous work on it. Let's say you were paying the premium for top quality work, say $50/hr. It simply doesn't look like a model that had 14 hours of work devoted to it by a highly skilled painted.

It's been said before and it'll be said again: BTP is/was sort of the Wal Mart of commission painting services. It wasn't great, but it didn't suck. It was usually quick and painless, and you generally knew exactly what you were getting/paying for.

Unfortunately the whole studio kind of... imploded and everything good about it went down hill.

From the videos they're still posting they seem to have rebounded some, but they're a lot smaller now, don't have a physical studio, and seem to be doing smaller projects that one artist can knock out more often than not.

I would still recommend going with Frontline or DoI or someone similar, but HOPEFULLY BTP is turning it around and will get back to the point where the prices match the quality.

 curran12 wrote:
Not to be too blunt about it, but I've lived years with this nerve damage, and I've been told dozens of times "oh why do you commission armies, just do some practice", usually with the same kind of sneer of 'you're removing the artistic side of the hobby' as well. Your intent may not have been to belittle, but when you out and out say that it removes something of the hobby, it is a clear message that by commissioning armies, I am somehow not as fully invested as you.

Some people would say you would be fully invested if you had a paintbrush in your mouth and were holding the minis with your toes.

But not me. I understand what nerve damage means and how awful it can be trying to hold something still. Totally legitimate reason for using a painting service.

 Jathom wrote:

I would still recommend going with Frontline or DoI or someone similar, but HOPEFULLY BTP is turning it around and will get back to the point where the prices match the quality.

I am a vocal anti-BTP person (their business practices disgust me) but I am asking this genuinely and with no ill will--have BTP's prices EVER matched the quality they offer?

I commissioned work from them over a decade ago, and it was okay work, but clearly done via the "dip" method with some light brush work to pick out a few details. This was using their 3/5 level of painting where troops were painted to "level 3" and heroes were painted at "level 5." Even when I was enthused about the army it was hard for me to identify much of a difference between their paint levels, but the pricing difference certainly was apparent.

Having never commissioned paintwork prior to that army I was naive to the pricing of other painters and thought BTP's pricing and quality was as good as it got. To BTP's credit they were reliable, had a sophisticated looking website in relation to a lot of one-person painters at the time, and had great customer service. So I wasn't unhappy with my treatment, and felt comfortable shipping an army-sized project off to them.

However, it didn't take long for me to learn that BTP used corner cutting techniques to paint, and that their consistency was non-existent between projects. This was painfully clear when I tried adding to the army I first commissioned and received back models that did not match up with their host army.

Now, to be fair, I've seen some cool projects of theirs posted on Youtube and they did at various points have talented painters and model/terrain builders, but I don't think their prices ever really matched the quality they were providing. Their prices seemed consistently higher than other studios and the most obvious reason for that difference is all of the overhead BTP had (has?) in terms of space, staff, etc.

Unless BTP becomes just Shawn painting in his garage I doubt there will ever be a point where BTP isn't charging more for work that you could find done faster and cheaper elsewhere.

 General Annoyance wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Commission work seems pretty unnecessary to me overall, unless people have money to burn or want an especially beautiful paint job for a specific model. I don't like the idea of entire armies being commissioned out (mainly because of high price, time, and removing the artistic side of modelling) but that's just me.

Just because you may possibly be able to paint to the same quality as a commission painter, doesn't mean commissions are unnecessary - people may not have the time to paint a horde of miniatures, or they can't work well to a schedule, like me for instance.

Plus, getting to a point where you can paint at level can take a very long time indeed. It took me 6 years to get to (just about) high end tabletop quality. Some people may not be willing to spend that long, or simply may not be able to paint even if they try due to injuries and other limitations, like curran said.

Sure, it makes sense not to commission out if you feel like you can do the same, or better, and have the time to do it. Not everyone is in that position though.

G.A

Back when I was painting for commission there were two main types of customer - one was folks that had families, particularly children - that ate up their available time. (I... am now one of their number. I'm over fifty, my good lady is in her thirties, but our first child was born just last month - Brigid Danger O'Grump. )

The other group were all from the same military base - where the US ARMY ate all of their available time. (Later, one was sent to Germany - but remained one of my steadiest customers.)

I enjoy painting - it is worth my time to paint miniatures because I enjoy doing so. For folks that don't have the time, or who don't enjoy painting, it is a different story - they may not like their day job, but they get paid for it - it is worth the $10 an hour to hire somebody else. That is either hours they don't have or hours they do not want to spend doing something that they don't enjoy doing.

The Auld Grump

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Jathom wrote:

I would still recommend going with Frontline or DoI or someone similar, but HOPEFULLY BTP is turning it around and will get back to the point where the prices match the quality.

I am a vocal anti-BTP person (their business practices disgust me) but I am asking this genuinely and with no ill will--have BTP's prices EVER matched the quality they offer?

I honestly could not tell you. It's never crossed my mind to have something painted for me. It's my favorite part of the hobby, as much fun as throwing a load of dice or cutting plastic is, painting is where I get my jollies.

The only things I know about pricing at BTP is from when I worked for them. Started during their peak (2012), left before the Age of Chaos Dwarves (2014). I just know they were super expensive and a lot that did not trickle down to the artists. I know why Shawn is the way he is about some things, but there are others that have never made sense to me.

I just hope that the total restructuring that BTP has gone through in the last year leads to some positive changes, or I don't see them recovering much of anything.

 Bookwrack wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
the Tau Terrain fiasco,

Tau terrain fiasco? That's one I missed.

The price on those tyranids is beyond ridiculous though. When I budget something for commission painting, I usually use a $20/hour to estimate how much I want to spend. $700 at what I consider an adequate baseline rate would be a day and half of continuous work on it. Let's say you were paying the premium for top quality work, say $50/hr. It simply doesn't look like a model that had 14 hours of work devoted to it by a highly skilled painted.

Someone on youtube, Natukue or something, traded a rare old armorcast Eldar titan for a table's worth of Tau terrain (back in that sweet spot time when the titan was long oop and FW hadn't made one, so they commanded a big price on ebay) with BTP... BTP gave them six or so very simplistic roughly carved and poorly painted white tower things, this was not acceptable, was rejected and so Shawn said he'd pay him... well... that went back and forth, lots of upset on the wargaming youtube community, basically Shawn stiffed him, he washed his hands of the whole affair and Shawn lived on, people forgot and his snake oil caravan kept on keeping on...

 General Annoyance wrote:
Plus, getting to a point where you can paint at that level can take a very long time indeed. It took me 6 years to get to (just about) high end tabletop quality.

I don't think that's as much of an excuse these days. It also took me years before I painted a half decent looking army, but that's because it was 90% trial and error. Someone would describe a technique to me or I'd read a vague tutorial and spend the next few months failing at executing it.

These days there's so many good tutorials out there. There's washes that look good right out of the pot. The basic standard of models you see in stores is much higher now than it was 10-15 years ago. I look at the models I'm currently painting and think "that looks decent" then I go to my local store and hang my head in shame at the quality of work I see your average joe achieving.

There's no reason your first army can't look pretty good these days. Just following Duncan's guides will give a newbie an army that looks better than my first 3 armies even if they can't execute it as well as he can. It took me 2 armies before I even figured out what edge highlighting was let alone how to do it well.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
That is either hours they don't have or hours they do not want to spend doing something that they don't enjoy doing.

I think that's all that needs to be said really.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I don't think that's as much of an excuse these days. It also took me years before I painted a half decent looking army, but that's because it was 90% trial and error. Someone would describe a technique to me or I'd read a vague tutorial and spend the next few months failing at executing it.

These days there's so many good tutorials out there. There's washes that look good right out of the pot. The basic standard of models you see in stores is much higher now than it was 10-15 years ago. I look at the models I'm currently painting and think "that looks decent" then I go to my local store and hang my head in shame at the quality of work I see your average joe achieving.

There's no reason your first army can't look pretty good these days. Just following Duncan's guides will give a newbie an army that looks better than my first 3 armies even if they can't execute it as well as he can. It took me 2 armies before I even figured out what edge highlighting was let alone how to do it well. .

A fair point. I will personally testify to the effectiveness of the WHTV tutorials, as my painting skill has increased exponentially over the past year where I've been watching them - before then I was basically banging my head against a wall just like you were.

It also helps that you have painting streamers who you can watch as they work, and see first hand how they achieve more advanced painting effects, and ask questions. A couple of cheeky questions fired at electriceve from me about how someone completely new to blending can blend, and I can now (very nervously) create a nice green transition on the cloak of my Tau Ethereal. All in the space of a week.

However, with all this in mind, there's still the potential for advancing your skill in painting to be a long process. Some people may not be fast learners, and even when you have learned a new technique, it will take practice until you can do it without a second thought. Learning to paint well has certainly become easier over these past few years, but it might still be a time sink people either can't afford or don't want to do.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:


I enjoy painting - it is worth my time to paint miniatures because I enjoy doing so. For folks that don't have the time, or who don't enjoy painting, it is a different story - they may not like their day job, but they get paid for it - it is worth the $10 an hour to hire somebody else. That is either hours they don't have or hours they do not want to spend doing something that they don't enjoy doing.

The Auld Grump

I think this is very much where you'll find most people who want commissions, as you have said, and there are certainly plenty of them out there who would do it themselves if it were an option, or they'd rather someone else do it so they can enjoy owning the final product, without any of the potential nuisances and difficulties that come with painting them.

G.A

Similar to you, I have a hand injury that makes using my dominant hand to hold things very difficult. I do not play games with unpainted miniatures which means I have hired A LOT of painters from large projects to small including Blue Table Painting, and Nuke Arts for large full armies and after getting my armies back there is 0 doubt in my mind that I 100% overpaid and what was sent did not meet the cost. Neither Nuke or BTP worked on resolving issues and the end result was a "go pound sand".

I have a hard time trusting full armies to single painters anymore, while they can do great work, their time tables can sometimes be very long and on occasion have delays or "issues". I have a project that has been out for almost a year and likely another 3 - 6 months before it completes another that has been in and out of queue going on 8 months. If you find someone solo who does a high standard, realize their pricing will be higher and delays may occur. Where the solo high end painters really excel for me is for HQ choices.. Holy Crap can some of these guys make HQ models sing!

Studios and people I have used:

On Target Studios
MinisbyZach
Octopus Ink
Rolling all Ones
Spiraling Cadaver
BTP
Frontline Gaming
Nuke Arts
War Paint Studio
and a few people from Barter Town and Locals.

out of those the ones I would recommend or that are still painting are

Rolling all Ones
On Target
Frontline Gaming
Spiraling Cadaver

Steer Clear of the following
Nuke Arts (I believe he made off with a ton of peoples stuff)
Blue Table Painting (overcharge and have crazy unrealistic turn around times)


It is very important to note that the prices of all these studios is different and some are single man shops (Rolling all Ones and On Target) I normally commission these guys for one of's or small squads due to cost and quality, they are a higher standard. Frontline Gaming is essentially a middle man who employs multiple single painters and brings them in under their umbrella, MinisbyZach is now a painter for Frontline. With Frontline Gaming you may have multiple people working on different parts of your army but the painting manager, Jason, ensures consistent quality and the same recipes are used across the board, they have never been late on a delivery date nor disappointed me, neither has Rolling or On Target.

So to answer your question on what I would pay as someone who hires painters a lot.

- 1 HQ (30 - 60 depending on quality you want)
- 1 Long Fangs squad (10 models) (12 - 20each)
- 1 Tactical Squad (10 models) (12 - 20each)
- 1 Dread (25 - 40)

On the low end 300 on the higher end 500.

A trick I learned through commissioning different studios is to know exactly what you want, find the exact recipe you want on the models and be very clear that you want that recipe followed, this allows you then hire other studios and you can expect the scheme to match, you can request that they use the exact paint scheme used in the official warhammer videos and they should paint it using those colors (if they refuse, just refuse to use their service, you have tons of options).

My recommendation would be to steer clear of Blue Table Painting, I would never ever recommend someone pay their prices ever for painting, for what they charge you could have a different studio paint each model to showcase quality. I would honestly look into Frontline Gaming, On Target, or Rolling all Ones for your army. I believe out of those Frontline will allow you to price it out off their website.

I would strongly nudge toward Frontline beacause sometimes you get more from them than you're paying for, I hired them for bunch of Batman the Miniatures games minis I was seriously impressed with her work, so much so I request her now for all my Knight Model miniatures https://www.frontlinegaming.org/portfolio-items/knight-models-dc-commission/. On Target (John) is my Primarch//Infinity//Showcase model guy, he is an all around awesome guy who delivers.

See https://www.frontlinegaming.org/paint-service/ for their price lists.

I've been doing a handful of commissions over the past year, and these prices blow my mind. I don't consider myself a "pro painter" by any means, and I just lightly advertise myself as being available to paint what others don't have time to paint or just don't want to. While this lead to an interesting job of almost two dozen Mega-Nobs in the same pose, it has still been pretty effective. I really only charge about 5 dollars per miniature, with slight discounts for larger box sets and whatnot (i.e. I'm painting the Death Masque box for my FLGS for 100$ and just finished their demo copy of Mantic's The Walking Dead skirmish game for 60$). Yes, these take quite a while, but I make it known that I have a family and a regular life and a full time job (which is where I get most of my painting done, ironically) and that a handful of models may take a few weeks. Regardless of how long it takes, I really only ever charge 5 dollars per mini for anything Terminator-sized and smaller, and then anything bigger, I usually do half of whatever the stock model cost on the GW or Mantic or whoever's webstore. Seeing people talk about charging 20$/hr for basic table top standard of one shadow and one highlight is mind boggling...

 TheWarpSaysHello wrote:
I've been doing a handful of commissions over the past year, and these prices blow my mind. I don't consider myself a "pro painter" by any means, and I just lightly advertise myself as being available to paint what others don't have time to paint or just don't want to. While this lead to an interesting job of almost two dozen Mega-Nobs in the same pose, it has still been pretty effective. I really only charge about 5 dollars per miniature, with slight discounts for larger box sets and whatnot (i.e. I'm painting the Death Masque box for my FLGS for 100$ and just finished their demo copy of Mantic's The Walking Dead skirmish game for 60$). Yes, these take quite a while, but I make it known that I have a family and a regular life and a full time job (which is where I get most of my painting done, ironically) and that a handful of models may take a few weeks. Regardless of how long it takes, I really only ever charge 5 dollars per mini for anything Terminator-sized and smaller, and then anything bigger, I usually do half of whatever the stock model cost on the GW or Mantic or whoever's webstore. Seeing people talk about charging 20$/hr for basic table top standard of one shadow and one highlight is mind boggling...

So if you charge $5 a model, how much does that work out per hour for you?

I was the one who said $20 an hour, not because that's what I charge but rather because that's what you'd have to pay me before I even consider doing a commission job and I'd STILL do something better value than BTP's high end stuff.

Realistically no matter how badly you paint you need to charge enough per hour to survive unless you're just doing it for fun and out of the kindness of your heart. Even a poorly painted model still takes me in the realm of 30 minutes to clean, assemble, paint and base, so I wouldn't expect anyone to charge less than half an hour's work at minimum wage unless its some kid living at home with their parents.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 TheWarpSaysHello wrote:
I've been doing a handful of commissions over the past year, and these prices blow my mind. I don't consider myself a "pro painter" by any means, and I just lightly advertise myself as being available to paint what others don't have time to paint or just don't want to. While this lead to an interesting job of almost two dozen Mega-Nobs in the same pose, it has still been pretty effective. I really only charge about 5 dollars per miniature, with slight discounts for larger box sets and whatnot (i.e. I'm painting the Death Masque box for my FLGS for 100$ and just finished their demo copy of Mantic's The Walking Dead skirmish game for 60$). Yes, these take quite a while, but I make it known that I have a family and a regular life and a full time job (which is where I get most of my painting done, ironically) and that a handful of models may take a few weeks. Regardless of how long it takes, I really only ever charge 5 dollars per mini for anything Terminator-sized and smaller, and then anything bigger, I usually do half of whatever the stock model cost on the GW or Mantic or whoever's webstore. Seeing people talk about charging 20$/hr for basic table top standard of one shadow and one highlight is mind boggling...

So if you charge $5 a model, how much does that work out per hour for you?

I was the one who said $20 an hour, not because that's what I charge but rather because that's what you'd have to pay me before I even consider doing a commission job and I'd STILL do something better value than BTP's high end stuff.

Realistically no matter how badly you paint you need to charge enough per hour to survive unless you're just doing it for fun and out of the kindness of your heart. Even a poorly painted model still takes me in the realm of 30 minutes to clean, assemble, paint and base, so I wouldn't expect anyone to charge less than half an hour's work at minimum wage unless its some kid living at home with their parents.

I see your point lol. Having seen some of BTP's stuff in the videos and various threads, I can't imagine paying hundreds for one of those models. I get that compensation is relative and necessary, but good grief. And yeah, it's just for some side money, but one can dream about doing it professionally

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Commission work seems pretty unnecessary to me overall, unless people have money to burn or want an especially beautiful paint job for a specific model. I don't like the idea of entire armies being commissioned out (mainly because of high price, time, and removing the artistic side of modelling) but that's just me.

That's just you. I see nothing wrong with paying people to do things to free up time. That's how business works.

I would never use BTP, as the owner appears kind slimy, the work product seems sub-par for what they promise, and the delivery time seems excessive.

However, if I ever won the lottery, you bet that I'd contract an artist to paint the bulk stuff!

This is all really useful information.

As it happens, 3 of the more sophisticated painters at my FLGS offered to paint his stuff for him rather than see it go to BTP. They did up the Long Fangs and the Tacs in an afternoon, but I don't know what the plans are for the rest.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Someone at my FLGS is looking to get an army painted, he's considering sending it to Blue Table Painting.

They are asking for the price of a nice used car, but he likes the fact they are in the US and have a process where he can order models painted up to a certain level.

Does anyone still use them? If so, what experiences have you had?

I know a GW employee that took his forgeworld models or model to be worked on at BTP. Long story short they ruined it horribly. Money down the drain and i don't even know if he wants to use the expensive forgeworld models again. So my advice is don't use it or at least not for anything you don't want to lose. I don't know the end result myself but the guy that owns seems unbelievably sad about it and others that have seen it sound like they'd have been ticked seriously.

I wouldn't use them for painting. There are plenty of other commission painters that are willing to show their talent and build a portfolio. They usually have a much better record, better quality pictures of their work, and Dakka Tends to have reviews on people to keep tabs on. Frontline gaming does amazing work. Guy at my club had a Tau Riptide painted through them and it is stunning. Frontline also went WAY above and beyond and repainted Tenebre's Chaos dwarves army for free. They care about the gaming community, BTP doesnt.

For my part, you'd be looking at:

£100 - character on foot
£450 - 10 man long fangs
£400 - 10 man grey hunters
£250 - dreadnought.

minimum, from sprue, to high end tabletop / 'studio army' sort of level.
with a turnaround of about 2 months, subject to schedule.

You'd get something nice, painted in my style, your choice of scheme and whatever else I can glean from my usual client head-probing. Erm... yes. Moving on.

Anything particularly odd would add to that cost.


That BTP Swarmlord is godawful for the money. I'd expect to put out close to 30-40 hours work for that, which I'd think would take a model like that up to almost competition grade work, and certainly something that would be at home in a display case. What's picture is just... gak. Sorry, but it's gak.

Which brings us to general evaluation:

I have seen NO 'good' work from BTP. The best I've seen I would describe as pretty basic tabletop. Stuff to pass muster at a con or tourney, but nothing I'd want to see in a display case.

Sorry if that offends folks that worked for them, but I've seen nothing I'd be happy putting out, and nothing I'd be happy to direct folks to pay for. I understand that budgets and set schemes can impact the work produced, so it's not necessarily a reflection on your personal talent, just the output of the company.

If you have an army that needs doing, I'd generally suggest Brandon / GMM studios (he's a member here).

He's very good, very fast, but has a significant queue, so there'll always be a wait. However, it's better to wait for a decent place to do the work than jump in to somewhere that just can't hack it.

winterdyne wrote:
I have seen NO 'good' work from BTP. The best I've seen I would describe as pretty basic tabletop.

Exactly. BTP is premium price for mediocre work. If BTP cut their prices in half, and turned work in a reasonable timeframe, then they would be acceptable.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Someone at my FLGS is looking to get an army painted, he's considering sending it to Blue Table Painting.

They are asking for the price of a nice used car, but he likes the fact they are in the US and have a process where he can order models painted up to a certain level.

Does anyone still use them? If so, what experiences have you had?

Tell him not to use BTP. From everything I've seen and heard about them, it's just not worth the risk. At worst he'll find himself being over completely with his money and/or models being held to ransome, and at best he'll get charged premium prices for sub-premium product.

Seriously, all that stuff from the Eldar Titan and Chaos Dwarf incidents just exposed a lot of nasty stuff, with BTP's conduct being unethical and immoral at best, and downwright shady and fraudulent at worst.

There are plenty of other options. Tell him to use one of those, instead.