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 insaniak wrote:
At least some of it is coming out of China...

Flicking through my paints, it seems like Foundations from the previous range were made in China. The regular paints from the same range (at least in my collection) were French and looking through the washes some are French and some are Chinese. All my paints from the current range seem to be UK.

Maybe they killed the old range because of supply issues.

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 Bottle wrote:
Lots of printing has moved back to the UK. All my AoS books are printed in the UK for example (it says Belmont). My understanding is hardbacks are still made overseas and soft backs are in the UK.

My BB book is soft back and printed in China, so there's probably no general rules for that stuff.

Plastic miniature wise though, it doesn't really make sense to outsource unless they've hit the limit of production with their own machines.

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Where are the GW brand tools made?

Joyboozer wrote:
Where are the GW brand tools made?

I think they're all made in china, but the knife comes with Swann-Morton blades which I believe are made in the UK.

GW does a lot of printing in China, but the actual plastic they use in the China-made plastics is of a more resin-like quality, and not as easy to work with. It's also a bit more prone to warping. They use it for most of their terrain kits and Realm of Battle tiles.

How can it be cheaper to make in China when GW had all this stuff in the US? I mean isn't transportation expenses just insane? So wouldn't it be cheaper to make in UK for Europe and US for North America?

Davor wrote:
How can it be cheaper to make in China when GW had all this stuff in the US? I mean isn't transportation expenses just insane? So wouldn't it be cheaper to make in UK for Europe and US for North America?

I think you underestimate just how much cheaper production costs are in China than in the UK or US.

And no, transportation costs for this sort of thing aren't really an issue. For small, expensive, lightweight product, you can fit an awful lot in a shipping container, which spreads the cost around and renders it pretty negligible. In most cases, it's local transportation (ie: boxes on trucks) that is the expensive part.

Thank you Insaniak for the explanation. Wow just shocked it's really that cheap in China then. I knew it was cheap but not that cheap since GW doesn't make that much product in bulk I didn't think for their small production orders it would still be cheaper.

Davor wrote:
Thank you Insaniak for the explanation. Wow just shocked it's really that cheap in China then. I knew it was cheap but not that cheap since GW doesn't make that much product in bulk I didn't think for their small production orders it would still be cheaper.

It all depends how many man hours go in to making a model.

The reason I think it wouldn't make sense for GW to outsource the plastic models is because they already have the moulds so the man hours to pump out 10000 sprues isn't huge, once a machine is set up it'll pump out a few hundred sprues each hour. Compared to resin models where there's a certain number of man hours involved in making each kit, so it makes more sense to outsource.

I think the reason GW outsource plastic terrain is maybe because their machines aren't the right ones for doing that sort of work (just a guess as I've never bought a made in China plastic kit to inspect how it might have been manufactured, but I'm guessing they're larger pieces, maybe utilising hot runner injection machines?). GW's current bases would be made in hot runner injectors which possibly explains why they don't make them in house anymore, while regular plastic kits use a cold runner system.

As an example of how cheap production (i.e, labour) is in China, I did hear that it was cheaper to manufacture books of matches in Europe, ship them to China for printing then ship them back, than it was to print them in Europe.

And all brought to you by your tax dollars via shipping loopholes and terrible labor practices.

Although I suspect the reason why GW still does anything in the UK is that they get some tax benefits if they keep a decent portion of their company operating in the UK.

I guess Trump wants to make this set in the USA (if not, then in UK).
That's how business is made this time.

 Vertrucio wrote:
And all brought to you by your tax dollars via shipping loopholes and terrible labor practices.

Although I suspect the reason why GW still does anything in the UK is that they get some tax benefits if they keep a decent portion of their company operating in the UK.

Really doubtful, and the reasoning was already explained up thread.

But that is a mistake that a lot of companies have made, and it's cost them dearly. You can't just say, 'okay, now we're going to be manufacturing in China!' and just push a button. New facilities have to be setup, new machinery has to be purchased (shock and surprise, China is not keen on companies importing this stuff instead of buying local), New staff, company restructuring to setup the needed communication and business channels, the growing pains and difficulty of moving significant operations halfway around the world. It's an immensely expensive transition short term, that if everything works out pays off over the long term.

For GW, the only thing transferring work to China would save them is employee costs, which is one of their smallest outlays, compared to equipment, molds, materials, which is not going to be much cheaper.

I stand corrected sir!

 Bookwrack wrote:

 Vertrucio wrote:
And all brought to you by your tax dollars via shipping loopholes and terrible labor practices.

Although I suspect the reason why GW still does anything in the UK is that they get some tax benefits if they keep a decent portion of their company operating in the UK.

Really doubtful, and the reasoning was already explained up thread.

But that is a mistake that a lot of companies have made, and it's cost them dearly. You can't just say, 'okay, now we're going to be manufacturing in China!' and just push a button. New facilities have to be setup, new machinery has to be purchased (shock and surprise, China is not keen on companies importing this stuff instead of buying local), New staff, company restructuring to setup the needed communication and business channels, the growing pains and difficulty of moving significant operations halfway around the world. It's an immensely expensive transition short term, that if everything works out pays off over the long term.

For GW, the only thing transferring work to China would save them is employee costs, which is one of their smallest outlays, compared to equipment, molds, materials, which is not going to be much cheaper.

supposedly most companies find a reputable Chinese company and contract them to produce it, rather than setting up their own plant.

 lord marcus wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:

 Vertrucio wrote:
And all brought to you by your tax dollars via shipping loopholes and terrible labor practices.

Although I suspect the reason why GW still does anything in the UK is that they get some tax benefits if they keep a decent portion of their company operating in the UK.

Really doubtful, and the reasoning was already explained up thread.

But that is a mistake that a lot of companies have made, and it's cost them dearly. You can't just say, 'okay, now we're going to be manufacturing in China!' and just push a button. New facilities have to be setup, new machinery has to be purchased (shock and surprise, China is not keen on companies importing this stuff instead of buying local), New staff, company restructuring to setup the needed communication and business channels, the growing pains and difficulty of moving significant operations halfway around the world. It's an immensely expensive transition short term, that if everything works out pays off over the long term.

For GW, the only thing transferring work to China would save them is employee costs, which is one of their smallest outlays, compared to equipment, molds, materials, which is not going to be much cheaper.

supposedly most companies find a reputable Chinese company and contract them to produce it, rather than setting up their own plant.

Indeed. Mantic do the same thing. I remember them posting a while back about their trip to china to visit the plant they were going to be producing from. It was an already set up, working plant, so the companies producing from there essentially just rent X amount of machinery and space and the workers that happen to inhabit it.

I thought GW kept all plastics in-house except for those "no sprue" kits like the Plasma Obliterator.

My reasoning behind that, "Dawn of Spire" is made in China is that, when I called Wayland Games the customer service advisor told me, that he will speak with the external sales manager ( since the item has "Awaiting reprint" tag on it ), who propebly said that they are waiting due to transport delay.
In the meanwhile it will interesting to see, when Games Workshop will restock it in his webstore.

herjan1987 wrote:
My reasoning behind that, "Dawn of Spire" is made in China is that, when I called Wayland Games the customer service advisor told me, that he will speak with the external sales manager ( since the item has "Awaiting reprint" tag on it ), who propebly said that they are waiting due to transport delay.
In the meanwhile it will interesting to see, when Games Workshop will restock it in his webstore.

But that doesn't necessarily mean the whole set is made in China, it could just mean they're waiting on the books and boxes which probably are made in China but the models are still made in the UK. We've known for a while that books and boxes aren't printed in house and often printed in China.

You also have the possibility that the reason for being out of stock is they weren't expecting it to sell out so fast so didn't have time scheduled to load the plates for the kit in to the injection moulding machines, so they might just be sitting on the back burner waiting for their scheduled casting run.

There's also the "Chinese whispers" effect where "facts" may have been distorted, contorted or invented between the person who actually knows what's going on, the person who told Wayland what's going on, the person at Wayland telling you what's going on and then you telling us what's going on.


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 Breotan wrote:
I thought GW kept all plastics in-house except for those "no sprue" kits like the Plasma Obliterator.

Yeah, that's what I meant in my previous post, the machines that make parts that aren't on a frame are called "hot runner" machines, they're actually more expensive machines and GW likely wouldn't own any as everything else they do is cold runner stuff (the runner is the frames, hot runner means the machine produces pieces with no frames).

 lord marcus wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:

 Vertrucio wrote:
And all brought to you by your tax dollars via shipping loopholes and terrible labor practices.

Although I suspect the reason why GW still does anything in the UK is that they get some tax benefits if they keep a decent portion of their company operating in the UK.

Really doubtful, and the reasoning was already explained up thread.

But that is a mistake that a lot of companies have made, and it's cost them dearly. You can't just say, 'okay, now we're going to be manufacturing in China!' and just push a button. New facilities have to be setup, new machinery has to be purchased (shock and surprise, China is not keen on companies importing this stuff instead of buying local), New staff, company restructuring to setup the needed communication and business channels, the growing pains and difficulty of moving significant operations halfway around the world. It's an immensely expensive transition short term, that if everything works out pays off over the long term.

For GW, the only thing transferring work to China would save them is employee costs, which is one of their smallest outlays, compared to equipment, molds, materials, which is not going to be much cheaper.

supposedly most companies find a reputable Chinese company and contract them to produce it, rather than setting up their own plant.

Which is not how GW does things. They control their own manufacturing.

I am ninety nine percent sure that GW makes all the plastics in house.

They print boxes and books elsewhere, maybe that is what they are waiting on.

 Rayvon wrote:
I am ninety nine percent sure that GW makes all the plastics in house.

They print boxes and books elsewhere, maybe that is what they are waiting on.

That was going to be my suggestion - the boxes are quite likely to be printed in China, but the plastics would be manufactured in the UK, given that GW owns their own plastics press.

One of the downsides of Chinese manufacture is the long delivery time - schedules at many of the companies are set months to years in advance - and if you need more it means going back into the line.

The Auld Grump

The Wall of Martyrs sets were not the usual GW standard.
They were rumoured to have been made in China, along with things like the vortex shields kit (or whatever it is).
Some parts of the WoM trench kits have some oddness around the bottom of the model, with skulls and ammo boxes stretched way past proper levels. The lower half-inch of the model looked to have overhang issues.
So, I do believe that GW do make some parts in China, and that they are not the same as normal GW models.
For instance, look at the '+'-shaped piece of the "Wall of Martyrs - Imperial Defence Emplacement". There is a guardsman torso either side of the chained section. The left-hand one looks OK, but the one on the right is stretched to the bottom, along with its shoulderpad.
The gun-butt on the end of the end-piece is stretched, too.

 Bottle wrote:
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All the AoS terrain is also in a different (much worse) plastic that from what I heard is made in China. Same with the new themed bases.

 Mymearan wrote:
All the AoS terrain is also in a different (much worse) plastic that from what I heard is made in China. Same with the new themed bases.

Is the Age of Sigmar Ophidian Archway made in China? That seemed a bit off when I put it together. It wasn't as easy as other GW products I put together. Also I don't like the AoS or 40K bases that were made in China. I know my painting skills are mediocre to worse, so trying to do those bases just really look bad.

The pictures on the box look nothing like what you actually get. Shameful really.