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Made in nl
Fresh-Faced New User





Just noticed this thread, as of the same moment i was cracking my mind after i made a sheet of what i need to buy to play a 1000 point WFB game.
It will cost me around 300 euro total, and thats without the paint, army book and so on.

So basicly, it makes me nocious to think ill be buying "a game" for 300 euro (which is by far a complete game). Secondly i cannot convince friends to start playing, yeah they love the mini's on the gw website, but then again the first thing they say to me; dude.... thats really expensive. And the biggest thing i then have; i cannot actually tell them why it cost so much money.

With some plastic miniatures, made with a simple mould machine, which should propably cost just a bit more then some several euros to create a whole regiment. But asking 40+ euro for it........
I really..... really cannot understand how people can join this game at this level of prices they ask.

Therefor i really stumbled upon myself; asking myself; is it worth it.

For the Horde!  
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

The problem is that you can't look at a price per model comparison, you have to look at everything overall, and GW is still more expensive when you look at the amount needed to buy. They could charge like historicals and be decent prices given that's a fair comparison for game size. But when they charge a ton just because, there's an issue.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/02 13:14:08


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Rachnaros wrote:

I really..... really cannot understand how people can join this game at this level of prices they ask.


ebay helps.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




 Rachnaros wrote:
Just noticed this thread, as of the same moment i was cracking my mind after i made a sheet of what i need to buy to play a 1000 point WFB game.
It will cost me around 300 euro total, and thats without the paint, army book and so on.

So basicly, it makes me nocious to think ill be buying "a game" for 300 euro (which is by far a complete game). Secondly i cannot convince friends to start playing, yeah they love the mini's on the gw website, but then again the first thing they say to me; dude.... thats really expensive. And the biggest thing i then have; i cannot actually tell them why it cost so much money.

With some plastic miniatures, made with a simple mould machine, which should propably cost just a bit more then some several euros to create a whole regiment. But asking 40+ euro for it........
I really..... really cannot understand how people can join this game at this level of prices they ask.

Therefor i really stumbled upon myself; asking myself; is it worth it.


The question is really not, is it worth it. The question is "Is there VALUE in it for YOU?" I was thinking of trying Fantasy. I started with battle of Skull Pass, got it at a discount. So I saw some value there. Then reading the rules a bit, seeing how it can be another mess like 40K (rules wise, tired of debates). Nice minis. Beautiful minis. But too expensive. I see there is no support for the game and with prices increasing, to me the Value is not there to start Fantasy for me.

For 40K, the value is not there for me either now. Was going to start Orks for the wife. Price increase again. So less and less worth. So the value is not worth me paying the prices GW is asking for.

Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in au
Oberstleutnant






Perth, West Australia

 Rachnaros wrote:
Just noticed this thread, as of the same moment i was cracking my mind after i made a sheet of what i need to buy to play a 1000 point WFB game.
It will cost me around 300 euro total, and thats without the paint, army book and so on.

So basicly, it makes me nocious to think ill be buying "a game" for 300 euro (which is by far a complete game). Secondly i cannot convince friends to start playing, yeah they love the mini's on the gw website, but then again the first thing they say to me; dude.... thats really expensive. And the biggest thing i then have; i cannot actually tell them why it cost so much money.

With some plastic miniatures, made with a simple mould machine, which should propably cost just a bit more then some several euros to create a whole regiment. But asking 40+ euro for it........
I really..... really cannot understand how people can join this game at this level of prices they ask.

Therefor i really stumbled upon myself; asking myself; is it worth it.

A lot of people prefer Kings of War for WHFB alternative but faster gameplay. You can use GW models if you have them, but you ccan instead use Mantics own models which are far cheaper. You could also consider using Mantics KoW models for WHFB if you prefer. As you say, you really have to go "is this really worth it"... a lot more people are just saying "nah, it really isn't" now. Thankfully there are some strong alternatives!
   
Made in us
Sneaky Kommando



Washington, DC

I think they should adopt more tiered pricing (which would require more lines, unfortunately.)

Forge World is already established as the "luxury" brand, with high prices and very high quality models. Someone who has money to burn -- especially for that special model -- can.

Right now GW is pricing itself like a luxury, and it should make itself more affordable, so that most of its models are "midrange".

GW should introduce an inexpensive "starter range" that lacks all the gubbins, articulation, and other neat stuff, and simpler, easier to assemble sculpts (maybe even snap fit models). Probably only cover certain basic things that you expect people to need to buy in bulk -- but it would get people to buy who wouldn't spend any money otherwise.

Orks - "Da Rust Gitz" : 3000 pts
Empire - "Nordland Expeditionary Corps" : 3000 pts
Dwarfs - "Sons of Magni" 2000 points
Cygnar - "Black Swan" 100 pts
Trollbloods - "The Brotherhood"
Haqqislam- "Al-Istathaan": 300 points
Commonwealth - Desert Rats /2nd New Zealand 1000 points 
   
Made in nl
Fresh-Faced New User





@ Davon,

Yes its the value, and as of now im still not certain about what to do. I really love to paint the minis, but like i said before, its kinda de-motivating knowing i still need to spend alot of money before i can even play a game. Ofcourse, i should not buy a complete army at once, and paiting mini after mini i will have a lot time to spend. But it still not the way it should be i think. It now will take alot of time before i can even play the game. (as in buyed the army, not painted).

Further more i think GW doesnt get it. If you buy a "starter kit" like Island of Blood you may assume as a new player that you have bought something that is "working" out of the box, but it doesnt, point wise the skaven are really outnumbered, secondly before you can play you need to go seek the store again for the army books. And this is complety wrong in my opinion. Same as the battalions, they should make boxes with 700 points, 1000, 1400 and so on. So you can immediatly start playing. (and ofcoure: make these boxes cheaper!)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/03 07:44:00


For the Horde!  
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




 Rachnaros wrote:
@ Davon,
It's Davor, with an R


Further more i think GW doesnt get it. If you buy a "starter kit" like Island of Blood you may assume as a new player that you have bought something that is "working" out of the box, but it doesnt, point wise the skaven are really outnumbered, secondly before you can play you need to go seek the store again for the army books. And this is complety wrong in my opinion. Same as the battalions, they should make boxes with 700 points, 1000, 1400 and so on. So you can immediatly start playing. (and ofcoure: make these boxes cheaper!)


I guess that is the big reason why I couldn't get into Fantasy. It was another, "I need to buy more in order to play a legal game?" I guess I am tired of being felt like a "sucker". Yeah I was a "sucker" to buy it in the first place, but at least it was on sale. Thing is, who is the "sucker"? Me for thinking it wasn't the case or GW for loosing out on so much sales? Well for me, I don't feel like a "sucker" because I got what I wanted. Some minis, the rules (even if I never did play) and was happy with my purchase. GW loses out because they think we will just keep buying and buying no matter what.

It might have worked before, but not anymore in todays age.

Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

That point about the boxed sets is also a good point. I find that in most cases that's where you really start to feel like you're being fleeced: Even the boxed armies on the GW site (the ones with actual discounts) aren't that great a discount when you actually see that you're getting like only 750 points.

For instance, I recently looked at the Cadian boxed army on the GW site. It was like $160 and came with:

* 1x Command Squad (5 models)
* 2x Infantry Squads (20 models)
* 1x Heavy Weapons Team
* 1x Chimera
* 1x Leman Russ tank

I compared this to Bolt Action's US Army starter army for $128:

* 1x Command Squad (2 models)
* 5x Infantry Squads (50 models)
* 2x Heavy Weapons Teams
* 1x Armored Car
* 1x Sherman tank

The Bolt Action army is 1,000 points which is a normal-sized Bolt Action game. Not having the AM codex I'm not sure of the points cost of the Cadian force but I'd wager 500-750 in a world where 1,500 is the average size game. So you are paying $160 and getting roughly half of what you need to play average games for 40k compared to $128 for everything you need to play average Bolt Action games.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





ComTrav wrote:
GW should introduce an inexpensive "starter range" that lacks all the gubbins, articulation, and other neat stuff, and simpler, easier to assemble sculpts (maybe even snap fit models). Probably only cover certain basic things that you expect people to need to buy in bulk -- but it would get people to buy who wouldn't spend any money otherwise.


They used to do that. That is what plastics were, but then Kirby had his brilliant "Why should there be a price gap between plastic and metal?" idea. Personally I think their system is flawed, even luxury brands make the bulk of their money from selling the low end stuff to ordinary people (for example Gucci and sunglasses, Ferrari and Hats).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/03 15:03:06


 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

I honestly couldn't really see GW focusing on snapfit plastic and the like because of their encouragement of conversions. On the flipside I'm actually curious why Privateer didn't go with that for Warmachine/Hordes, since while you can do conversions they are very limited.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






Davor wrote:
 Rachnaros wrote:
Just noticed this thread, as of the same moment i was cracking my mind after i made a sheet of what i need to buy to play a 1000 point WFB game.
It will cost me around 300 euro total, and thats without the paint, army book and so on.

So basicly, it makes me nocious to think ill be buying "a game" for 300 euro (which is by far a complete game). Secondly i cannot convince friends to start playing, yeah they love the mini's on the gw website, but then again the first thing they say to me; dude.... thats really expensive. And the biggest thing i then have; i cannot actually tell them why it cost so much money.

With some plastic miniatures, made with a simple mould machine, which should propably cost just a bit more then some several euros to create a whole regiment. But asking 40+ euro for it........
I really..... really cannot understand how people can join this game at this level of prices they ask.

Therefor i really stumbled upon myself; asking myself; is it worth it.


The question is really not, is it worth it. The question is "Is there VALUE in it for YOU?" I was thinking of trying Fantasy. I started with battle of Skull Pass, got it at a discount. So I saw some value there. Then reading the rules a bit, seeing how it can be another mess like 40K (rules wise, tired of debates). Nice minis. Beautiful minis. But too expensive. I see there is no support for the game and with prices increasing, to me the Value is not there to start Fantasy for me.

For 40K, the value is not there for me either now. Was going to start Orks for the wife. Price increase again. So less and less worth. So the value is not worth me paying the prices GW is asking for.
A friend of mine considers Skull Pass to be totally worth it... as the bulk of his Orc army for Kings of War.

Isle of Blood serves much the same purpose for an Elf army.

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





West Chester, PA

WayneTheGame wrote:
That point about the boxed sets is also a good point. I find that in most cases that's where you really start to feel like you're being fleeced: Even the boxed armies on the GW site (the ones with actual discounts) aren't that great a discount when you actually see that you're getting like only 750 points.

For instance, I recently looked at the Cadian boxed army on the GW site. It was like $160 and came with:

* 1x Command Squad (5 models)
* 2x Infantry Squads (20 models)
* 1x Heavy Weapons Team
* 1x Chimera
* 1x Leman Russ tank

I compared this to Bolt Action's US Army starter army for $128:

* 1x Command Squad (2 models)
* 5x Infantry Squads (50 models)
* 2x Heavy Weapons Teams
* 1x Armored Car
* 1x Sherman tank

The Bolt Action army is 1,000 points which is a normal-sized Bolt Action game. Not having the AM codex I'm not sure of the points cost of the Cadian force but I'd wager 500-750 in a world where 1,500 is the average size game. So you are paying $160 and getting roughly half of what you need to play average games for 40k compared to $128 for everything you need to play average Bolt Action games.


Yup. I'm a total Wargames Factory fanboy myself. They sell infantry packs of 31 guys for $22, in high quality plastic. Compare that to GW's 10 guardsmen for $35. At Wargames' prices, I'm buying models I won't even use, just for fun, because they're quality and well-priced. If third-party manufacturers can make good models for 1/4th the price, I'm pretty sure that GW could easily cut their prices by 20%, or more to the point they could offer 20% more in each infantry box and not incur any additional shipping costs. I'm absolutely not buying any GW models right now (still buying the books though), I've got a halfway Dark Eldar (from 3rd Edition) and Space Marine army (from eBay) and there's no freaking way I'm paying $40 for three reavers nor $41 for a razorback.

I got my valkyrie (hind helicopter model) for $16 on Amazon, got my vendetta (harrier jet model) for $25. I haven't met a player yet who objected to my counts-as rough riders or conscripts. I would gladly give my money to GW, just as soon as they start offering their products at reasonable prices. Until then, I'll go gangbusters on Amazon and Wargames Factory.

Same deal with paints. My Blick/Utrecht paint store will gladly sell me 1 oz of acrylic ink for $5 when GW tries to sell 0.4 oz of nuln oil for $5. Quality acrylic paints, I can find a similar deal. Everyone else seems to be competing on price...

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/09/04 00:19:43


"Bringer of death, speak your name, For you are my life, and the foe's death." - Litany of the Lasgun

2500 points
1500 points
1250 points
1000 points 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




 TheSilo wrote:
WayneTheGame wrote:
That point about the boxed sets is also a good point. I find that in most cases that's where you really start to feel like you're being fleeced: Even the boxed armies on the GW site (the ones with actual discounts) aren't that great a discount when you actually see that you're getting like only 750 points.

For instance, I recently looked at the Cadian boxed army on the GW site. It was like $160 and came with:

* 1x Command Squad (5 models)
* 2x Infantry Squads (20 models)
* 1x Heavy Weapons Team
* 1x Chimera
* 1x Leman Russ tank

I compared this to Bolt Action's US Army starter army for $128:

* 1x Command Squad (2 models)
* 5x Infantry Squads (50 models)
* 2x Heavy Weapons Teams
* 1x Armored Car
* 1x Sherman tank

The Bolt Action army is 1,000 points which is a normal-sized Bolt Action game. Not having the AM codex I'm not sure of the points cost of the Cadian force but I'd wager 500-750 in a world where 1,500 is the average size game. So you are paying $160 and getting roughly half of what you need to play average games for 40k compared to $128 for everything you need to play average Bolt Action games.


Yup. I'm a total Wargames Factory fanboy myself. They sell infantry packs of 31 guys for $22, in high quality plastic. Compare that to GW's 10 guardsmen for $35. At Wargames' prices, I'm buying models I won't even use, just for fun, because they're quality and well-priced. If third-party manufacturers can make good models for 1/4th the price, I'm pretty sure that GW could easily cut their prices by 20%, or more to the point they could offer 20% more in each infantry box and not incur any additional shipping costs. I'm absolutely not buying any GW models right now (still buying the books though), I've got a halfway Dark Eldar (from 3rd Edition) and Space Marine army (from eBay) and there's no freaking way I'm paying $40 for three reavers nor $41 for a razorback.

I got my valkyrie (hind helicopter model) for $16 on Amazon, got my vendetta (harrier jet model) for $25. I haven't met a player yet who objected to my counts-as rough riders or conscripts. I would gladly give my money to GW, just as soon as they start offering their products at reasonable prices. Until then, I'll go gangbusters on Amazon and Wargames Factory.

Same deal with paints. My Blick/Utrecht paint store will gladly sell me 1 oz of acrylic ink for $5 when GW tries to sell 0.4 oz of nuln oil for $5. Quality acrylic paints, I can find a similar deal. Everyone else seems to be competing on price...


You really like the rules that much, or is it you have a good play group to play with? I can't see anyone buying other minis/toys to play with 40K rules. Not trying to condensed, just understand where you are coming from.

Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





West Chester, PA

Easy ruleset to find a game.

"Bringer of death, speak your name, For you are my life, and the foe's death." - Litany of the Lasgun

2500 points
1500 points
1250 points
1000 points 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




 TheSilo wrote:
Easy ruleset to find a game.


Ah, I get it. I understand.

Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





West Chester, PA

Davor wrote:
 TheSilo wrote:
Easy ruleset to find a game.


Ah, I get it. I understand.


Believe me, I've got plenty of house rules that I'd love to implement. But I'd rather use a mediocre ruleset and actually get a game in than run around trying to find the one other guy in the state that plays my chosen wargame.

"Bringer of death, speak your name, For you are my life, and the foe's death." - Litany of the Lasgun

2500 points
1500 points
1250 points
1000 points 
   
Made in us
Boom! Leman Russ Commander






By far the #1 reason people leave the game is because of the price tag. GW could sell the rules and models for literally half the price and still make a 100% or better profit off of them based on individual sales. This is even after taking into account development, transportation, all other overhead and production.
On top of this, they would actually increase their numbers of items sold by over 100% for a huge overall profit margin increase.

clively wrote:
"EVIL INC" - hardly. More like "REASONABLE GOOD GUY INC". (side note: exalted)

Seems a few of you have not read this... http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/forum_rules.jsp 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





West Chester, PA

 EVIL INC wrote:
By far the #1 reason people leave the game is because of the price tag. GW could sell the rules and models for literally half the price and still make a 100% or better profit off of them based on individual sales. This is even after taking into account development, transportation, all other overhead and production.
On top of this, they would actually increase their numbers of items sold by over 100% for a huge overall profit margin increase.


That's the kicker. Most other businesses would have a business model where they release rules for free to get people into the models, where they make the money.

"Bringer of death, speak your name, For you are my life, and the foe's death." - Litany of the Lasgun

2500 points
1500 points
1250 points
1000 points 
   
Made in us
Hacking Proxy Mk.1





Australia

 TheSilo wrote:
 EVIL INC wrote:
By far the #1 reason people leave the game is because of the price tag. GW could sell the rules and models for literally half the price and still make a 100% or better profit off of them based on individual sales. This is even after taking into account development, transportation, all other overhead and production.
On top of this, they would actually increase their numbers of items sold by over 100% for a huge overall profit margin increase.


That's the kicker. Most other businesses would have a business model where they release rules for free to get people into the models, where they make the money.

Sure as hell seems to be working for Corvus Belli.

I've always found it equal parts funny ironic and depressing ironic that GW goes on and on about being a model company, not a rules company, yet throws so many ludicrously overpriced rulebooks at you.

 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
Made in cy
Dakka Veteran





Cyprus and London

Quite simply for everyone that doesn't agree with the charges (like myself) for official GW stuff but you really want to own the gear you would look to following.

A. Discount stores like darksphere, element games etc up tp 30% off to me is erasable! you would basically get 30% more there for your budget.

B. hunt for bargains. This is a pain buster because things like eBay usually have friends boosting bids to the maximum so very hard to get a good deal on there but very possible to win a bargain sometimes. The other is buy from people who want to offload their old stuff.

Only through chaos can peace be obtained,
Destruction is our future but we shall not fall from it, We will rise up stronger than ever before and stand together united as one, 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




 jonolikespie wrote:
 TheSilo wrote:
 EVIL INC wrote:
By far the #1 reason people leave the game is because of the price tag. GW could sell the rules and models for literally half the price and still make a 100% or better profit off of them based on individual sales. This is even after taking into account development, transportation, all other overhead and production.
On top of this, they would actually increase their numbers of items sold by over 100% for a huge overall profit margin increase.


That's the kicker. Most other businesses would have a business model where they release rules for free to get people into the models, where they make the money.

Sure as hell seems to be working for Corvus Belli.

I've always found it equal parts funny ironic and depressing ironic that GW goes on and on about being a model company, not a rules company, yet throws so many ludicrously overpriced rulebooks at you.


How can you be a miniature company when you make crappy rules for them? How many people have bought Pyrovores? Maybe one just to have it for a collection, but shouldn't those be being sold in 2's and 3's? So yeah, GW is not even a mini company anymore.

GW doesn't even know what it wants to be.

Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Ultramarine Devastator




England-upon-Tees

 kerikhaos wrote:
Quite simply for everyone that doesn't agree with the charges (like myself) for official GW stuff but you really want to own the gear you would look to following.

A. Discount stores like darksphere, element games etc up tp 30% off to me is erasable! you would basically get 30% more there for your budget.

B. hunt for bargains. This is a pain buster because things like eBay usually have friends boosting bids to the maximum so very hard to get a good deal on there but very possible to win a bargain sometimes. The other is buy from people who want to offload their old stuff.



To be fair, that's not a huge help given that (for me at least) even with the 25% Dark Sphere offers, the prices are still at the eyewatering level.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/05 09:47:28


3000 -3500 points. 50% Painted.
150 points (Work in progress) 40% painted
 
   
Made in cy
Dakka Veteran





Cyprus and London

You wouldn't expect things to go lower than 30% because that would unreasonable even from us who want lower prices. If for every 100 I was spending I got 30 back then that's quite a lot off considering. It's an expensive hobby and we know the charges but finding them for this much cheaper does lighten the blow and keeps more of us in the game.

The point is GW won't drop ever I beleive so the hunt would continue to be finding the cheaper reseller. Or buy from bored / ex collectors who sell for bargains.

Only through chaos can peace be obtained,
Destruction is our future but we shall not fall from it, We will rise up stronger than ever before and stand together united as one, 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





Orem, Utah

There is simply no way I would feel guilty about turning up with minis I bought elsewhere.

When I lived in Denver, there actually was a GW store in town (in the metropolitan area) and I actually did attend their 40k night with some regularity. I also went to a lot of the other fine hobby shops in the area (Denver had quite a few nice ones).

I never felt bad about bringing minis that I bought at one store to play at another- and I think I shopped the least at the GW store.

It isn't as though I hadn't paid for my minis (I wasn't casting copies in my garage or anything).

Local Game Stores find different ways to get people to buy things at their store. I know one place that offers everything at a decent discount. Most places simply keep up a stock on the shelf and know that their regulars just can't resist the mini that's right in front of them.

 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

I'd be cool with more value, without the price mattering. For instance, why are Sternguard/Vanguard 5 models for like $50? They should be 10. $50 for 10 is expensive, but it doesn't feel like you're being cheated. $50 for 5 when you likely want 10 just feels like you're getting ripped off because the company KNOWS you want 10 so is purposely charging you twice.

- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




WayneTheGame wrote:
I'd be cool with more value, without the price mattering. For instance, why are Sternguard/Vanguard 5 models for like $50? They should be 10. $50 for 10 is expensive, but it doesn't feel like you're being cheated. $50 for 5 when you likely want 10 just feels like you're getting ripped off because the company KNOWS you want 10 so is purposely charging you twice.


A lot of businesses do this. Problem is, we see GW doing this to the extremes without ever giving great value else where. I could live with GW doing this, but then when selling out codices, do so at half the price they are selling now. Sell the rules cheaper as well. This way, yes I pay more for minis but we are getting books/rules at a fair value. The way I see it, is, GW is doing the 5 for $50, plus gouging with books and rules.

I use to collect Lord of the Rings. Now, GW increases the prices of the books. Now instead of paying $40 for 20 minis, now it's $30 for 10 minis. Half the miniature count but only 1/3 the price count, so intact that turns into a price increase. Could I have lived with this? Maybe. But I draw the line when I have to pay $150 for the starter set with rules, and then that rule book doesn't have the point costs and the rest of the miniature stats, that I would have to dish out another $100 for a rulebook just for Stats and point costs. Didn't have to do that with Mines of Moria, which was a great deal. Or should I say an awesome value. Now I see no value in The Hobbit and quit.

Sadly I am starting to see no value in 40K either. I see no value in Fantasy so will not even start it. While the prices maybe high, I am willing to save for high prices. Problem is, I see no value at those prices. Even GW cut the prices in half now, there is no value in their products? Why? Ever 2 years an edition change. (yeah I know it was only 18 months from 6th to 7th) codices invalidating previous builds, or just changing rules for because. How come a gun in one edition, does not have the same rules in the next edition.

Why are the rules not proof read? Why are their mistakes? Why are there written mistakes? If I am going to be paying for a "Premium Product" then that product should have premium workmanship.)How come there is too much imbalance in the game? If I am going to be spending 5 for $50 or $5 a plastic mini, I need to see that the game will be supported through Errata/FAQ when problems arise. (I can understand not every for seeable circumstance can be seen, so a good Errata/FAQ should be made then.)

I just don't see no value anymore in GW products as a gaming system anymore.

Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

I want to see value in 40k, I really do. Hell I want to play it again. But not at the price they're asking, with poor rules that don't allow me to field what I want (well unless I'm happy to spend hundreds and lose every game).

GW basically pretends its products are luxury, but like you said a luxury premium product should have quality control. Otherwise what are you paying for? They need to learn that a hardcover book and glossy pages doesn't mean your product is high quality. GW is a Toyota Corolla engine and faux leather seats in an body that looks like a Ferrari but is a cheap knockoff, that's being passed off as being a Ferrari. If there was actually some kind of law/regulation about claiming a product to be a luxury product, I'm pretty sure GW would be violating it.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/09 18:10:33


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in cy
Dakka Veteran





Cyprus and London

It's one of them mind f*ck situations where we're cleverly being rooted. we all agree that GW are expensive and we hate them for it but when we actually stretch to the occasion of buying their stuff we actually justify our purchases as being in accordance with value.

It's like we're driving and deliberately turn into a dead end road knowing it's a dead end and still driving down it just because we believe that this time round they may of made an opening linking to the main road on the other side.......hmmm. Maybe that example is a bit warped but my point is we argue about the obvious but still take no logical advice and do any different....we still waaaant moooooore

Only through chaos can peace be obtained,
Destruction is our future but we shall not fall from it, We will rise up stronger than ever before and stand together united as one, 
   
Made in gb
Posts with Authority






Norn Iron

What do you mean 'we', paleface?

I'm sooo, sooo sorry.

Plog - Random sculpts and OW Helves 9/3/23 
   
 
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