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And Lo, the hoary prophet rustles his travel stained robes and waves his gnarly staff in the air, chastising the faithful and the chosen......


What is right, and wrong, with Human Interface Nakamura Tower.

I suppose I ought to explain my misgivings over this project, but first a disclaimer. I don't think this project is bad, or 'sucks' and if you get the mistaken opinion that I do then reread it until it doesn't. So, as for the good. Well the miniatures for start, all of them and that has been the strongly prevailing opinion. I am not going to say much more about the miniatures quality, mostly because its entirely subjective, other than I like what I have seen and have confidence the quality will be high. Likewise with the art, the quality looks excellent throughout and the visualisation is professional in every way.
However, there are issues, evidently they have not hampered a successful crowdfund, present the toys well and people will buy them especially as Cyberpunk is an underused genre resurrected from the 80's which frankly should never have died. Post Industrial Games have done well in their choice of context, but less well in certain parts of application.
In essence from what I have seen I believe PING is a company of talented artists and sculptors, but amateur in terms of formulating a crowdfund campaign and in major areas of design. Frankly I think they are missing proficiency many of the skills needed to make a games company, and the inexperience shows, especially in contrast to the areas where their expertise is fairly solid, such as the artistic and sculpting side of things. Below I will highlight some of the problems.


A. HINT doesn't have all the necessary elements for a miniatures boardgame.

Miniatures boardgames are fine, but they require certain features to make them work. They need to work as a miniatures game and a boardgame both, carrying both the visual effect of miniatures and the concise rigidity of a boardgame. HINT has some deficiencies in these areas, none of which are difficult to overcome but need to be addressed sooner rather than later.

This game has strong miniatures game elements, and has plenty of cool toys, even in the basic set. PING gets this spot on right, I need not dwell on it much here. The characters are interesting, the drones are also characterful. Top marks.
then two two main add ons of the Angels and RAID add quite a lot of variety, bulked out with a lot of high quality but rather unexplained bonus miniatures.
So no complaints on the toys.
However the boardgame elements have issues.
Boardgames are all about fixed from the box components and thus should be balanced, expansions to add variety but they are holistic extensions which, in the hands of a good developer are tested every which way and balanced to add to the core.

Post Industrial have made what in my opinion is a mistake by making it a miniatures game on a board with fairly open numbers of miniatures. Boardgames aren't designed to work this way. This is especially so because HINT uses movement spaces and other rigid boardgame concepts which need to be dovetailed correctly to work well.
For example you have miniatures available in random numbers based on the personal collection, which are either surplus to requirements for a boardgame, or used while operating as with a miniatures game, yet has a highly abstract movement system of a an abstract boardgame, more on this below.

Also miniatures available for play are growing, yet the play environment is not. Yes, Post Industrial can create more tilesets but this is of limited viability as you grow into a chessboard of small rooms and corridors. I strongly suspect the action will devolve into a number of unconnected smaller actions, or worse a random soup of combat between small rooms which in all intent and purpose could be reduced to the Can Do equivalent of a dice rolling exercise with little actual player input.
In my eye I doubt post Industrial have properly looked at the scaling of the game, and possibly have not realised the consequences of scaling of a hybrid such as a tactical miniatures boardgame, which due to its both open and restrictive nature must be handled carefully.


B. HINT may be cementing in problems with the game board tile set.

First the miniatures fit the game spaces too generously, the 2" squares are frankly too rounded Even a small reduction per square size could make the map handier, it's currently 32" square in the block format, which is rather big for a boardgame. This could be cut significantly, by even a reduction to 1.8", which would reduce a square four file map to 28.8". The infantry miniatures would fit this, and the spider drones can have legs over the edge without too much problem. Are large bases necessary for the drones? Won't the spider drones stand on their own, and can the flyer drones use smaller bases, say 40mm.

Second we have to look at the tiles themselves. Most tiles are for boardgames, some are for miniature boardgames but almost exclusively these are dungeon bashes with their jigsaw cut edges or spaced out so that clips can be used.
HINT uses the bad combination of medium sized tiles, miniatures (and heavy 32mm metal ones at that) and a block arrangement of the tiles which makes clips highly impractical. PING themselves tested the game on a single printed map rather than tiles. This is a soup of factors which means HINT may be one of those games highly susceptible to annoying game ending boardquakes.

Next we have to look at the board spacing. Again while a miniatures game movement is calculated in squares using lateral movement only. Lateral square movement is fine for an abstract boardgame with game pawns, sometimes literally pawns, but wont do for a miniatures game, its too restrictive and immersion killing. Pawns can be restricted to specific moves, miniatures ought not to.
This doesn't mean you cant use squares, they just need to be handled differently. One method very popular is to have a movement grid showing how many movement points to reach a given square relative to yours. Another option is to allow diagonals, which evidently was rejected because of the range and movement anomalies it creates. However this can be overcome with some games design techniques, or bypassed entirely by using irregular spaces, or offset squares or hexes. Each has their advantages and disadvantages but Post Industrial have appeared to have taken the worst option of the those available, and while I can see the short pat advantages its lazy games design frankly and can be avoided with technique.

Next looking at the tiles there are further issues. the rooms are bland 4x4 because the tiles are 4x4, with variation for 3x4 rooms with a part corridor. These are also badly designed. I can see the temptation to have a corridor strip with a single square of lift at the end, but it should be thought through better. Lifts don't usually bisect corridors, they can but its not usual. While the current arrangement allows the map to be reversed and have to half lifts covering the ends of the corridors as a bonus the whole map could be better designed.
Having lifts on sealed off areas adjacent to corridor strips works far better and has more logic to it. This of course means you get even less room on a 4x4 tile, but the entire concept of the 4x4 tile doesn't work anyway for a boardgame of this type.
Post Industrial would be far better off having larger tiles and requiring fewer of them. As the game box is over 12" apparently the tiles should be about that size, but with a set of nine tiles in the core box. This would actually be bigger, though again shaving squares down from the rounded 2" size (you should be able to shrink a 6x6 grid down to an 11" square tile easily enough. The larger the tiles and the fewer there are the less susceptible the board is to boardquakes.
You might think with fewer tiles you get less variety, in fact the opposite is true. The 4x4 tiles are too small for detail other than room furniture, the game board as is will be exceptionally bland, again distracting from the excellent miniatures to use on it. A 6x6 tile has over twice as many squares and can be subdivided into rooms of different shapes and sizes, allows option of wider corridors in a meaningful way and allows offset lifts, you can also have one or two tiles with single much larger rooms to open up play.
Fortunately Post Industrial offers backers a board set, and while the size is given its not as set in stone as the miniatures. Give players less miniatures and you have grumbles, change around the size and number of board tiles and you can get away with it, especially if you explain yourself while doing so.

Another option is to create a pair of two-sided paper maps, these offer levels of the Nakamura Tower, which like most corporate towers will be repeated from floor to floor. Each map has individual artwork and is hand crafted so it need not be modular in any way. Variety can be added by hard cardstock overlays such as foyers, lobbies and mezzanine halls which when placed over a paper map obscure several rooms and corridors with new content and in effect drastically changing the map. architecturally this also makes sense, just as floor 7 is likely to be a copy of floor 6, if you add an internal foyer or reception area to a level it will likely be a cut out of the main floor arrangement.
Two large paper maps offer four base boards to play on, two two-sided cardstock overlays that on average have two viable placements per side offer a total of 32 meaningful combinations while still retaining distinct individual floors. It would save a lot on production coasts also and Post Industrial could make A2 maps and scenarios printed on the corner of the map 'outside' and post the details online for players to download and arrange to get printed.
Again there are a lot of options beyond little boxes of 4x4 tiles, again Post Industrial have taken the owrst of the options in front of them, in all likelihood due to inexperience in games design. With their own use of printed maps for playtesting they might not yet be aware of their design shortcomings.


C. Cyberpunk is all about the style, HINT is missing key elements of this.

Now from the get go I must immediately accept that the visual style both 2d and 3d is spot on. The fashion is future 80's as good cyberpunk should be. However the visuals were never as important as the words. For being a genre with a vision of its rain filled dark skies and city lights, trenchcoats, sunglasses and concealed weaponry the true art comes in the description. Let me make example of this, by comparing the following sentences.

“The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel.”
― William Gibson, Neuromancer

"Nowadays the corporate security manager must be a tough guy, Werner is not a tough guy, he easts tough guys for breakfast."
- HINT intro video.

Now it was more than a bit unfair, its like comparing the Mona Lisa to a kids crayon cartoon and critiquing harshly. But the point has to be made. Cyberpunk has always, and always will be about the style. It must drip fashion in the written as well as the visual form. This must be thoroughly evident in backstories, attached cameo descriptions from every item, in the scene setting tales and above all in the dialogue. Cage, Deckard, Count Zero, Hiro Protagonist, they all had to have The Lines. In a very real way cyberpunk harkens back to the cutting wit of the 30's gumshoe, and the Console cowboy/cyber samurai/netrunner has as much in common with the 30's detective stories and Film Noire as much as it has to do with the computer age.
It's a heady calling, but it has to be done RIGHT. The wit must be sharp, and the emphasis on the ephemeral, the instant gratification, instant greed and the evolution on extreme fast forward with the technological edge being only a few weeks wide should be apparent in almost every line.
Cyberpunk needs to be like Casablanca on crack, and is actually a very difficult genre to get right.

Now sadly a whole lot of Post Industrial's work falls far short of the mark. Yes we can forgive that English is not their first language. But too much of the description and dialogue is purile, like it was written with a fourteen year old metagamer's ideal of what is cool, and that rarely cuts any ice in the netwired future. Evidently from their other qualities these designers are not fourteen year olds, the style is in fact matured, but let down by the supporting text. I have misgivings that the words chosen would regain any of their cool factor if translated back into Polish.
Cyberpunk is a triumph of style over substance, and to give it any substance the style must be emphasised all the more. Different persons would well have different personalities. Shoko may well be quite simple, Yukio is likely a woman of few words due to her position, and background and how that fits in the milieu; yet the words she uses should be hoe to say it, sveldt. Someone, in fact at least two persons need to be able to sum up their observations with a short and cynical tone, cold and hard and thin but not entirely devoid of compassion. Somewhat akin to Philip Marlowe overchat. The original release of Bladerunner exemplifies this character well. Some characters much be effectively silent, their dialogue is entirely body language translated into monochrome and hidden behind dark glasses and tall coats so only the movement of the lips and their stance speak for them, and the other characters must convince the player audience that have the wit enough to provide full translation.

Anyway back to Werner and his intro. 'Eats tough guys for breakfast'. I will pass on the purile overused description of a tough guy for now, that would be cheesy enough description for a fantasy barbarian. Cyberpunk takes the clear writing to a whole new and more difficult level, even a single word can be jarring. So Werner easts tough guys for breakfast. What's a breakfast? Breakfast is for the now, it's todays world. Cyber samurai of the near future don't have breakfast, they don't have a concept of breakfast. Well they probably do, but it happens off screen and is pausetime from the drama. Cyber samurai wake up in their clothes on the couches of dark rooms. They pop a pill, take two swigs from a bottle of strong liquor while basking in the glow of the open fridge door, and then allow themselves to sigh, once, while downing a black coffee before checking the trenchcoat inner pockets and heading out the door. That's rising, breakfast and the day's prep rolled into one, with nothing to indicate whether it is actually morning or not.

Yes, Post Industrial need to hire proof readers, yes they need to tighten up the wording they give to game rules and their backers models alike. That part is easy.
The more difficult but no less essential component is to make sure the language used, the text visuals if you will, fits the seediness and sharpness of the genre. Yes, Post Industrial can make its own mark, but there are some ground rules to follow as with any fashion based milieu and cyberpunk being pure fashion in its most self absorbed and shallow way cannot let this part of the product slip from grasp.


D. The Kickstarter was mishandled.

Now for the most obvious problem, though the least important. The campaign is nearly over and I waiting until now to say this, and yes I am hoping Post Industrial read what I write hear. Making noises any earlier wouldn't have helped as artwork and design takes time to develop and major changes cant be made on the fly easily, so even if all my complaints are valid, and Post Industrial were to agree with the logic to them, crash implementation would probably cause more harm than good. Though some implementable opinions were made, notably the need for a mixed drone add on set and were later echoed by an increasing number of persons.
My list of complaints mainly highlight the inexperience of the Post Industrial team on this side of their venture and are mentioned as a learning experience.
The late blooming of the project is mainly due to the positioning the project gets in the last three days as it heads to the top of the Time Ending queue and gets homepage attention from time to time.
PING making nice miniatures but not knowing how to plan the business properly to backers is a worrying sign frankly. Backers should be aware that the inexperience demonstrated throughout this Kickstarter may well translate into delays or unexpected problems later. I hope not, and frankly think we will see what we expect to see, Post Industrial can clearly handled the miniatures and the rest of the project are not major manufacturing hurdles at all, but I would not be surprised if the project suffers delays because a while down the road things happen the company had no planning for or experience to resolve.

1. The Early Bird dilemma
While the FAQ did include information about how to update an Early Bird pledge, the info was presented very unclearly, and tucked away below a textwall where most would not get to read it. This was the clearest sign that to some degree PING don't really know what they are doing and are only learning. That can be ok, inexperience is not a crime and Post Industrial will get better, but I have to wonder what else they have misjudged or not thought through especially in the face of the rest of the issues below.

2. The Add on Prices
Our reward for backing a non existing (not yet anyway) project early is to be presold single miniatures at as price comparable to Games Workshop retail. Yes the miniatures are nice, so are GW's, but £6-£8 for a single infantry model is a bit much as a crowdfund pre-order.
Making Kickstarter exclusives is more tempting, and we have one or two to buy here.

3. No mixed drones.
Back when the Kickstarter was stalled and the five drone packs wsere already present was a good time, a no brainer actually, to make mixed packs of drones. Post Industrial might assume that by not making mixed packs they might make more sales of packs of five. There is some logic to that, but I think most players would have been more tempted to stay away or hold out for a better option than to buy in.
Frankly I think mixed drone packs would sell well, and since first mentioned a lot of players have echoed the call. It would also be the easiest add on to implement.
It would also be logical, how many Motoshige drones do we need anyway.

4. And speaking of Motoshige drones.
Some rumours say they are to be added to player teams as helpers. Could be, it would explain why backers only get one especially as Post Industrial haven't said what they are, other than an obsolescent model. And there in lies the rub, when you tell people they can buy five animated desks they shouldn't overlook what they actually are for.
Imagine GW came up with a new idea: Devastator squads! Are they marines, or guard or maybe they for orks or eldar. We wont tell you, pre-order some and find out. Not good enough frankly. Nice idea, but implementation, implementation, implementation.

5. Mis-ordered add on pieces.
Frankly the cooperative play elements accompanying the Snake Queen and not even directly relating to her should have been a direct feature of the main game. Thus making the core set either confrontative or cooperative against the map from the very start.

6. The Black Stones.
Oh dear. The miniatures are lovely, but why the hell aren't they all together in a squad with a scenario pack like RAID. As it happens we might not get them all, when another £28 set would sell easily, and need not include extras map tiles if PING are happy without. Frankly they look like an add on. We don't know how many Black Stones we will actually be able to get, so evidently this means the game balance for the faction is entirely in the air.

7. The lack of description.
Directly following on from the above. Unlock the Snake Queen! Why? The miniature is nice but what does she do? On one level just offering a cool looking miniature is an incentive, and to credit PING the artwork has been high throughout and people can see nice miniatures to get, but so far most add ons have been just extra cyberpunk miniatures to collect rather than functional elements of the game.

8. Extra cops, then more cops on top.
Five cops in the set, an extra cop for being a backer in the RAID set, more cops unlocked at stretchgoals and some with heavy weapons and cyberdogs. This is again cool for a rpg collection and for just owning the sculpts, but doesn't make much sense if you want a RAID faction which has a rather random selection of game pawns (which is what these are) between individual players sets.
I hazard a guess that Post Industrial wants to use a points system for RAID, as you can have five or six cops in your force from the start depending on whether you are a backer. Is the official set five or six? If five what does the sixth cop do. The only logical answer is that the extra miniatures allow team member swaps, but as Post Industrial are trying to sell these miniatures I should have to resort to guessing.

9. The massed drones scenario mentioned in passing.
Again, this is a miniatures boardgame, not a miniatures game. Miniatures games can be open ended, aka: you set your force to a fixed points cost, and I match. Boardgames, especially for scenario play normally have fixed unit cap.
So Post Industrial offers us more drones. But doesn't tell us how many more are needed, and doesn't offer drones in anything other than packs of five.
see above.

10. Drones with rocket launchers and shotguns
The core set has ten drones, backers can upgrade two drones with heavy weapons. Again great for a miniatures game, but for a boardgame if the basic game calls for ten machine gun drones as the unit cap, but some players can field eleven including two heavy weapons, and others field sixteen or twenty one, possibly with up to six other drones with heavy weapons, or more and more as the player buys in more assets.
So either the drones added are irrelevant and this is just a straight miniatures sale, or the drones are relevant and the balance of the boardgame is randomised based on how much extra a player spent and whether or not they were lucky to get into th game in the Kickstarter.
PING has to make a choice, either to remove the heavy weapons drones from the core rules, or retroactively incorporate the heavy weapons into the core boxset. Again not a major changing decision, but evident of the sort of simple issue the project should have addressed in advance.

11. The 'making of' artbook.
While a nice idea to include this, it was the wrong timing and the wrong project. Books take a while to put together, even in the days of fast printing, and paper is expensive, especially if you make a fairly substantial book, with colour art throughout.
Making of and art books are usual add ons for existing franchises, and for when here is a current mass appeal. A thousand backers is not mass appeal, yet, and while the idea has potential for the future its a bad idea now. For a start it distracts from the main creation, second due to the low print run it will have to be vanity published. For very small print runs of full colour books a £20 sale might actually be a flat loss.
The printing could be outsourced to the far east, which will cut costs to a considerable degree, on paper (sic), but with a company that doesn't yet know what its doing this comes with its own pitfalls.
Besides if it is written in 'fluent Engrish' I don't see much appeal; beyond the pictures.

All in all I see mentioned more add ons with problems of one degree or other than I see parts of the add ons that don't have problems.
Again most of the problems are very minor and could be dispelled with a tiny amount of attentiveness, this is especially true regarding descriptions of use for the add on items, and the lack thereof.


Well there we go. Don't let this be a downer to you. I have placed just under a ton on this game, and believe it will see us through. I would not have done so had I thought it likely to fail, or at least would not have expanded beyond £60.
Besides it is best to reiterate the truth, the vast majority of problems are very easily rectifiable with a little foresight, or even hindsight.


....."Sinners, repent and sorteth thy ways." With a final wild wave of his thin sunburnt arms the prophet's rants ended as abruptly as they began, though it was many moments before the last echo died away. Slowly the prophet sagged his tired back into a hunch and leaned briefly on his staff to catch breath. Then with a mad glint in his eye he hobbled his old bones brisky off away down the winding path to the rhythmic tap of his staff on the stone and the rattle of hollow gourds.

'- Who asked for extra weapons? There you go...'

Black Stone team is got a lot of new toys for playing as 77.5k GBP SG was reached:



HINT backers haven't let the Black Stone squad down and unlocked the last team member crossing 80k GBP SG:



If you think it is over have a look at new KS exclusive addon and yet another SG:





PING as a 'listening company' answered a KS question about exo skeleton. Maybe we all should reconsider our our wishes before wording them out.

We can still make it - there 6 hours left!

Link to the campaign:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1803723298/human-interface-nakamura-tower/posts/1237107
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1803723298/human-interface-nakamura-tower/posts/1237155

PS. @ Alpharius: I saw your post.

Thanks for that, Orlanth! Very detailed.

I'd already decided not to back, based on watching a few minutes of the gameplay video, which already had me uneasy about game design for several of the reasons you mentioned and one other. The latter was the final straw, in fact -- that your physical stat has an inverse relation to your movement rate -- I have no problem with the idea that heavily armoured supersoldiers are faster than cyber-ninjas, but I immediately thought about how this also means that your weedy, unfit, nerdy asthmatic computer hacker is like twice as fast as any cybersamurai type, even a cybersamurai in light armour and with enhanced legs... and for me that was immediately one of those decisions that, as Mencken put it, was "a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong". It'd work OK for a simplistic wargame, but it's not right for a boardgame, even a high-tech dungeon bash like this, because dungeon bash boardgames need to have asymmetrically balanced characters with more fine-tuning than that. You can't just take the plausible wrong approach because it seems neat; you have to playtest, playtest, playtest, and this was a sign, for me, that that hadn't happened.

The miniatures are gorgeous, OTOH, and if I were in the market for cyberpunk miniatures, I'd be backing this for them alone.

rademon wrote:
'- Who asked for extra weapons? There you go...'

Black Stone team is got a lot of new toys for playing as 77.5k GBP SG was reached:
HINT backers haven't let the Black Stone squad down and unlocked the last team member crossing 80k GBP SG:

I upped my pledge last night to include the dog handler. I will have to wait for post-Kickstarter pledge manager to buy the rest of Black Stone. Definitely getting them all now we have a full team on offer.
I hope the individual Black Stone minis are just for us, to build the team cheaper by having half the models free.. They deserve their own full scenario pack like Pacification for commercial release. A corporate cyber commando unit is a must have team for me.

rademon wrote:

If you think it is over have a look at new KS exclusive addon and yet another SG:

Will that be £9 in the post Kickstarter pledge manager? It would be nice to learn abourt alt weaponry ans whether the miniature is magnetisable.

rademon wrote:

Looking forward to the possibility of getting that.

rademon wrote:

PING as a 'listening company' answered a KS question about exo skeleton. Maybe we all should reconsider our our wishes before wording them out.

That mostly why I wrote the article above.
And that PING listens to backers stands them in good credit, but many many people have called for a mixed drone pack over the last few days, and there isn't one there yet.

rademon wrote:

We can still make it - there 6 hours left!

As the timer ticks closer to zero this project will go to the front page of the games section, and then finally of all sections. This will reach a lot more people and gets impulse investors, which is not at all surprising for a project as well visually represented as this one is. To a large extent this drove the gears forward at the 96 and 48 hour mark. New tempting add-ons are here, but the project was impressive enough, and over the last two days you have a third more backers than you had from the early stages. You did your job well by taking the project to the forums and tapped out on backers from places like Dakka and similar sites. Then the project stalled until it hit the 96 hour mark and turned up as an ending project and as a hot release, which meant people trawling through Kickstarter stumbled on it and thought 'great lets back it'.
Now with prime coverage on the front pages of the whole of Kickstarter, you will reach a lot of people. Let's see if we break the 1000 backer barrier, and get to £87.5K. Rotting for you. If we do reach 1000 backers, but dont still get to £87.5K at end maybe PING will offer the AI hybrid as a 1000 backer bonus. Otherwise we just have to buy him I guess.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Thanks for that, Orlanth! Very detailed.

I'd already decided not to back, based on watching a few minutes of the gameplay video, which already had me uneasy about game design for several of the reasons you mentioned and one other.

i recommend you do back at £60 if you play R Talsorian games products or want to do so. I also have hope that PING can be persuaded to take a second look at those areas of design quality where they are lacking. There is time.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:

The latter was the final straw, in fact -- that your physical stat has an inverse relation to your movement rate -- I have no problem with the idea that heavily armoured supersoldiers are faster than cyber-ninjas, but I immediately thought about how this also means that your weedy, unfit, nerdy asthmatic computer hacker is like twice as fast as any cybersamurai type, even a cybersamurai in light armour and with enhanced legs... and for me that was immediately one of those decisions that, as Mencken put it, was "a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong".

I agree, but its not final straw really. One of the projects that captured the attention of PING was a request for a second rate scavenger team with substandard cyberware. One of the key features of this would be heavy implants that give a physique stat improvement not in proportion to the movement loss.

Secondly the rules for wounded characters are messy, and I had to ask here. they use their unwounded physique to calculate movement, which is not printed on the wounded side. All in all they are better off just printing as movement stat on each character card, its what the character cards are there for after all. even if nothing else changes it will make wounded characters less confusing. The core ten characters can still 'just happen' to have move and physique stats that total ten, but it no longer pastes the game into a corner. Also a heavy cyberbody might not lose movement after damage, but a light character will. Weedy hackers who lose half their physique stats should be limping at the very least..

 Ian Sturrock wrote:

It'd work OK for a simplistic wargame, but it's not right for a boardgame, even a high-tech dungeon bash like this, because dungeon bash boardgames need to have asymmetrically balanced characters with more fine-tuning than that. You can't just take the plausible wrong approach because it seems neat; you have to playtest, playtest, playtest, and this was a sign, for me, that that hadn't happened.

The simplistic formulaic movement rates and the rule you can only move laterally combine to give the movement rules an abstract game pawn feeling which is the wrong portion of boardgame genre to import into a miniatures boardgame game.

At this rate it would be better to just have blank tiles without squares and all movement and ranges in inches, I don't believe that by the way, they actually need better rules to represent spaced movement, and techniques are there. But I would rather they go the extreme of having a tabletop game with tiles than the extreme of reducing movement to that akin to pawns on a traditional boardgame.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:

The miniatures are gorgeous, OTOH, and if I were in the market for cyberpunk miniatures, I'd be backing this for them alone.

If you back at £60/66 you can probably make money on resale if the game doesnt suit you, and if PING do clean up their rules writing between now and release you wont miss out. If you can afford the investment I say go for it, but its your money.
In the last position HINT might join one of many many almost good games which were work a set of house rules on Boardgamegeek. If PING screws the pooch on game balance its better than when GW do it. A lot of games have community balanced rulesets and game cards for download, and this will deserve one if necessary. The criteria normally being the visuals. A lot of Eagle games products were impressively large game with a lot of neat content but had a shoddy ruleset.

I am hoping and frankly do believe it wont come to that. PING is keeping its ear on customer input, and might come round to a broader way of thinking. They are inexperienced games designers, not GW'esque idiot ones.

It's weird how much allowing or disallowing diagonal movement can make a difference to the fun factor of a miniatures-y dungeon bash boardgame. Spending a turn not moving as much as you wish you could vs. spending a turn zipping round the board getting gak done in an elegant manner... It was a selling point for SDE for me, over similar games. But TBH hexes would be more elegant, even indoors. Or just allow diagonal moves at a cost of 1.5 movement points.

1.5 movemrnt points roundecup over the movement phase is one of the valid techniques to handle the problem.
Alternately allow one diagonal move per model per move phase, it's simple and effective. I generally prefer a 3pt diagonal and 2pt lateral movement, making kneeling or turning around without movement 1pt. You need to double movement points for this, but if PING include a movement stat that isn't a problem. It also gets rid of ugly fractions in movement.

Hexes sound like a nice idea, but I am not in favour of them. I prefer offset squares for a start. Offset square stagger like brickwork and then you look at them are functionally identical to hexes but fit floor plans better.

Hexes/offset squares allow even movement in all directions, wheras squares allow eight directions of travel rather than six and also allow right angle travel. Once the diagonal movement penalty is addressed squares are functionally superior to hexes.

Oh and one other thing. If weapons ranges are in lateral movement only expect frequent immersion breach. It could well be a total downer on game quality as bullet fly like grid tokens. No thanks.

Confusing amount of last-minute content incoming!

The big AI model now has 3 forms. Currently, the first 2 are stretch goals, the final one is a £9 add-on!







The Blackstone Commandos are now in effect a full expansion (minus more tiles), since they have full equipment sets and mission cards. Both are included with the base pledge, but you'll have to fill out some of the faction models with add-ons:





They're going to make the Raid44 female officer that lost the vote, she's just an add-on now:



If you want duplicate Oneda Sisters (so that you can assemble them both on individual bases and on the optional single large base), these are also an add-on:



Phew!

The last hour countdown...

Link to the campaign:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1803723298/human-interface-nakamura-tower/description

Too bad I can't go in at the 1 pound level and add funds during pledge manager. I'm in the middle of a move and funds aren't available. Oh well, I'll wait for this to hit retail I guess.

Added another £9 (Exo Tactical) and we are less than £200 to go, with seven minutes on the clock to get the AI hybrid.

So damn close.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Finished

970 backers

£87,891

Well done, we got this:



t was nice to see the seconds tick off , we won this guy in the last two minutes.

And in what may be the shortest, most last-minute Kickstarter update of all time, there's another add-on for 3D terminals!



I'd be very interested in these as multi-purpose terrain once we get a bit more detail (i.e. not a SketchUp model!).

 MLaw wrote:
Too bad I can't go in at the 1 pound level and add funds during pledge manager. I'm in the middle of a move and funds aren't available. Oh well, I'll wait for this to hit retail I guess.

Email them. I emailed Mantic and said I could bid on Dungeon Saga due to cashflow, they let me in. I even got the KS exclusives.

It is in the interest of Post Industrial not to exclude you, even at the loss of a more lucrative retail sale. Because:
a) they need the money now to make the game.
b) retail sale is at retail markup, bad for you, bad for PING, good for the middleman.
c) late additions to crowdfunding don't have 8% skimmed away by Kickstarter, so all the monies goes to PING.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bioptic wrote:
And in what may be the shortest, most last-minute Kickstarter update of all time, there's another add-on for 3D terminals!



I'd be very interested in these as multi-purpose terrain once we get a bit more detail (i.e. not a SketchUp model!).

They look MDF with plastic pieces. I would like to see resin furniture with plastic screens, you can do so much more.

I saw at the beginning that the game looked a little on the bland side to my liking, and carried with it a number of already annotated eccentricities within its rule set. Ultimately I opted to back the project predominantly for the miniatures.

I certainly hope the game itself shall improve, I hope PING study Fantasy Flight's 'Descent' line of Boardgames and more Specificly there most recent only in that game line 'Star Wars: Imperial Assault', but time will tell...

Has anyone mentioned when we might see the pledge manager open, so people can add the last minute things that they may have missed out on?

 Collinsas wrote:
I saw at the beginning that the game looked a little on the bland side to my liking, and carried with it a number of already annotated eccentricities within its rule set. Ultimately I opted to back the project predominantly for the miniatures.

This. I dithered right up to the end whether to drop my pledge or not and stayed in due to the aesthetic. My hope is the writing and rules tighten up a lot and some of the money is used to hire a professional editor.

 Orlanth wrote:
They need to work as a miniatures game and a boardgame both, carrying both the visual effect of miniatures and the concise rigidity of a boardgame.

That isn't entirely true. Although as a customer and a miniature gamer we would always prefer a game that functions as a boardgame but can also function outside of being a board game. However simply having miniatures and board game, does not mean it needs to function as a miniatures game.

Zombicide as well as many CMoN games are clearly board games but also part of the miniatures genre, however their games will not function outside of a boardgame environment. I felt Ghostbusters had potentinal for a miniatures game but is still strictly confined as a board game.

The advantarge of the boardgame market is board gamers are more likely to homebrew, make modifications and changes where they need too. If you look at any given game on BBG this is evident. Miniatures gamers however tend to be more rigid, if the rules don't work out then they'll repurpose the miniatures and pick a different ruleset. That doesn't mean there isn't a middle ground but on the far side of the spectrums that is more true.

The main issue with KS is unless they are of a existing IP like Mantic, CMoN, most board games and miniatures games will always fall short. They don't have the team or put in the time to do proper game testing, while other companies have access to hundreds of testers. Usually you tend to have a good ruleset and subpar miniatures or vice versa. There are a few that shine but 1st run editions from a KS perspective tend to be that way.

I backed for the miniatures first, game system section honestly. As long as the basics of the mechanics are put together, I'm actually pretty cable of redefining them into a better system. At least typically, there are some times that doesn't work but I'm pretty good at balancing. Granted other people are less likely to do that but that is part of the risk with KS. Unfortunately there isn't enough information about gameplay for me to make an actual basis for anything yet because everything else is conjecture trying to fill in missing gaps.

 Orlanth wrote:
First the miniatures fit the game spaces too generously, the 2" squares are frankly too rounded Even a small reduction per square size could make the map handier, it's currently 32" square in the block format, which is rather big for a boardgame. This could be cut significantly, by even a reduction to 1.8", which would reduce a square four file map to 28.8". The infantry miniatures would fit this, and the spider drones can have legs over the edge without too much problem. Are large bases necessary for the drones? Won't the spider drones stand on their own, and can the flyer drones use smaller bases, say 40mm.

32" isn't that huge, slightly less than 3ftx3ft which works for most game tables. 1.8" = 45.72mm, 55mm=2.17" currently there is going to be a bit of overlap for 55mm bases.

Honestly you don't want any overlap for bases. This is in part where terrain companies for dungeons typically fall short and why I have issues with some HirstArt designs. In the open squares, everything is fine but when you get in corners of rooms, miniatures don't usually fit without some creative movement because arms weapons usually aren't confined to the small base.

I understand what you are saying, there are concerns, although I think there is a lot of conjecture based on personal opinions. Some I can agree with to a degree, others it is more a matter of preference. Could things have been handled differently, sure but it is easy to say that in hindsight. Although I know ultimately it is something you would have liked to see do better, which is why some of your views are the way they are because ultimately that is what you believe would have improved it. It may have been or may not have.

Ultimately this is usually why though I have a cap for KS that I pledge. I want more but until I know more about something I'm not going to get more than is needed, since none has explained on why I would need more. The only reason to get more miniatures, outside of the base game, is options or utilize the miniatures for other things (ie: Infinity, Mercs, etc). I am usually less worried about the campaign handling compared to how it is handled after the campaign is over, updates, pledge manager and work. That determines if I go all in and get more things. Although lately I tend to go for KS Exclusives first, then everything else I wait until retail unless a particular miniature really catches my eye. Yes I run the risk that it never makes retail but if it never makes retail, then I probably didn't really need it then, so it really saves me money in the long run.

 Dark Severance wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
They need to work as a miniatures game and a boardgame both, carrying both the visual effect of miniatures and the concise rigidity of a boardgame.

That isn't entirely true. Although as a customer and a miniature gamer we would always prefer a game that functions as a boardgame but can also function outside of being a board game. However simply having miniatures and board game, does not mean it needs to function as a miniatures game.

Sorry, you managed to completely misread my comments, please read the whole text to understand.

Miniatures boardgames are a hybrid of boardgames and tabletop miniatures games, and they must function as a hybrid, not as strictly one or the other. It can be done.

 Dark Severance wrote:

The advantarge of the boardgame market is board gamers are more likely to homebrew, make modifications and changes where they need too. If you look at any given game on BBG this is evident. Miniatures gamers however tend to be more rigid, if the rules don't work out then they'll repurpose the miniatures and pick a different ruleset. That doesn't mean there isn't a middle ground but on the far side of the spectrums that is more true.

Agreed, but do you see why the phenomena occurs?
It is because boardgames and miniatures boardgames have a holistic structure with any expanion in managed packages. Miniatures games are far more free form and irregular, and once you have uiregularity you have discord over balance because the variables are so large private opinion yields more sway than a concensus logic.
Also modding a boardgame is something that can be done in a single document, tabletop miniatures games lack that formal solidity.

 Dark Severance wrote:

The main issue with KS is unless they are of a existing IP like Mantic, CMoN, most board games and miniatures games will always fall short. They don't have the team or put in the time to do proper game testing, while other companies have access to hundreds of testers. Usually you tend to have a good ruleset and subpar miniatures or vice versa. There are a few that shine but 1st run editions from a KS perspective tend to be that way.

You can cut the playtesting requirements considerably with drytesting. However drytesting is a rare skill in the industry.

 Dark Severance wrote:

I backed for the miniatures first, game system section honestly. As long as the basics of the mechanics are put together, I'm actually pretty cable of redefining them into a better system. At least typically, there are some times that doesn't work but I'm pretty good at balancing.

We think entirely alike there.

 Dark Severance wrote:

Granted other people are less likely to do that but that is part of the risk with KS. Unfortunately there isn't enough information about gameplay for me to make an actual basis for anything yet because everything else is conjecture trying to fill in missing gaps.

A good analyst can make surprisingly accurate conclusions from thin evidence, you need to read the patterns. I cant easily put to words the latter comment.

 Dark Severance wrote:

32" isn't that huge, slightly less than 3ftx3ft which works for most game tables. 1.8" = 45.72mm, 55mm=2.17" currently there is going to be a bit of overlap for 55mm bases.

Now you are thinking 'tabletop miniatures game' see, wheras this is a 'miniatures boardgame'. It should at least try to fit on a dining table.

 Orlanth wrote:

Honestly you don't want any overlap for bases. This is in part where terrain companies for dungeons typically fall short and why I have issues with some HirstArt designs. In the open squares, everything is fine but when you get in corners of rooms, miniatures don't usually fit without some creative movement because arms weapons usually aren't confined to the small base.

I agree however the 55mm and 25mm base sizes are wrong IMHO. The larger bases are only so, large to fit the spider drones, which can be deployed without bases and look fine. For everything else 40mm will likely be fine.
Spider drone legs may well go beyond the bounds of a square, that isnt really a problem. Its a bit like dragon wings overlapping squares not occupied by the dragons base on a dungeon game.
we wont be sure until we see the miniatures, but it would behoove PING to look for a size squeeze.

 Dark Severance wrote:

I understand what you are saying, there are concerns, although I think there is a lot of conjecture based on personal opinions.

See this from a designers perspective, its an artistic perspective so there will always be a high lacing of opinion. But games design is also about Game Theory, Maths and other hard factors. Those can be analysed out with a fair degree of reason. Conjecture makes it seem so random, analysis is not conjecture.

 Dark Severance wrote:

Some I can agree with to a degree, others it is more a matter of preference. Could things have been handled differently, sure but it is easy to say that in hindsight. Although I know ultimately it is something you would have liked to see do better, which is why some of your views are the way they are because ultimately that is what you believe would have improved it. It may have been or may not have.

Actually with regards to the Kickstarter I sat back and didn't interfere because i was on the outside. The only notable input I made on the comments forum got a LOT of echoes backing the concept. So it may be wrong, but it was well receioved (mixed drone add ons).

 Dark Severance wrote:

Ultimately this is usually why though I have a cap for KS that I pledge.

I have a hard cap basec on disposable income. Of which my gaming is a strict portion. I wanted three KS projects and at a time baxcked all three to 'take a look' but had to drop two. HINT was the no-brainer first choice, but another of the games would have cost me £38 and looked really good. But I had to discipline my spending and cancelled the backing.

 Dark Severance wrote:

I want more but until I know more about something I'm not going to get more than is needed, since none has explained on why I would need more. The only reason to get more miniatures, outside of the base game, is options or utilize the miniatures for other things (ie: Infinity, Mercs, etc). I am usually less worried about the campaign handling compared to how it is handled after the campaign is over, updates, pledge manager and work. That determines if I go all in and get more things. Although lately I tend to go for KS Exclusives first, then everything else I wait until retail unless a particular miniature really catches my eye.

Updates don't bother me, information bothers me, competence is what I look for. Read between the lines, think about what was offered when and in which order. It will tell you a lot, it's a bit like 'corporate body language' if you forgive the crude expression. I don't care if we only hear from PING once a month or every day. I don't care too much what add ons we get so long I get something I like.
I watch ongoing Kickstarters primarily to judge to competence of the manufacturer. PING's managerial competence rang a few alarm bells, but not enough to stop me investing due to the superlative artistic quality. But make no mistake, this should be considered a higher risk game project based on the handling by the company. Thankfully I only saw inexperience, not incompetence. We should be OK.

 Dark Severance wrote:

Yes I run the risk that it never makes retail but if it never makes retail, then I probably didn't really need it then, so it really saves me money in the long run.

That is only a risk if the project becomes total vapour, if the game is published but the company fails to create a retail market, which can happen and might not be the fault of the game, then our copies will become increasingly collectible. Failure might mean, sell it like ebay Space Hulk in two ywears for a solid profit, or keep it as a rare collectible, which has value of itself.

 Orlanth wrote:
Miniatures boardgames are a hybrid of boardgames and tabletop miniatures games, and they must function as a hybrid, not as strictly one or the other. It can be done.

I didn't misunderstand I just don't agree. I do realize that it can be done but I don't believe it has to function as a hybrid.

What qualifies a miniatures boardgame vs boardgame vs miniatures game? The only real qualifier is miniatures but that doesn't entirely qualify it as a miniatures boardgame. Many board games have miniatures but can only function as a boardgame, while there is a small list that can function as both.

 Orlanth wrote:
Miniatures games are far more free form and irregular, and once you have uiregularity you have discord over balance because the variables are so large private opinion yields more sway than a concensus logic.

It is more about balance. Boardgames are easier to remove and add aspects while maintaining a balance to gameplay. Miniatures games have a larger free form structure like you say, which makes simply removing or adding elements mess with the balance.

It is for that reason that most games don't exist as a hybrid, being able to exist as a miniatures game and a board game at the same time. The ones that do have different rulesets which has its own pros and cons. Usually those miniatures boardgames are simply just boardgames with miniatures.

 Orlanth wrote:
You can cut the playtesting requirements considerably with drytesting. However drytesting is a rare skill in the industry.

Drytesting is easier to do with boardgames than miniatures games. Although a good portion of the boardgame can be tested this way, there are subtle functions that effect each other than don't necessarily show up in drytests. You can test the components but not the flow of the game from start to finish properly.

That was one of the main issues with the gameplay videos. They showed sections of gameplay but didn't set up the board from the beginning, didn't run through the whole gameplay and picked sections to highlight.

 Orlanth wrote:
Now you are thinking 'tabletop miniatures game' see, wheras this is a 'miniatures boardgame'. It should at least try to fit on a dining table.

No I am still thinking of boardgames, my tabletop miniatures games take up 4'x4' sections of the table. Both of which fit on my dining room table (seats 6, rectangular) or breakfast nook table (seats 4) or the the poker table. There is a overhang for the 4'x4' though on the breakfast nook. Zombicide, Imperial Assault, Betrayal at House on the Hill, SDE, Myth

 Orlanth wrote:
I agree however the 55mm and 25mm base sizes are wrong IMHO. The larger bases are only so, large to fit the spider drones, which can be deployed without bases and look fine. For everything else 40mm will likely be fine.

I'm not sure 40mm would work. Currently at least based on the one gameplay video, legs span the square with a small amount of room if any. They weren't mounted on bases so you may not need the base. Personally though given the thin legs I will definitely be mounting it on a base for more support. 40mm could work but with overlap, if the squares and drone they played with are going to be the same size. There wasn't enough information provided unfortunately.

 Dark Severance wrote:
But games design is also about Game Theory, Maths and other hard factors. Those can be analysed out with a fair degree of reason. Conjecture makes it seem so random, analysis is not conjecture.

That is true but you can't game theory when there isn't enough information about the gameplay to create actual baseline. Otherwise gaps are being filled with personal preferences or opinions and directions a person would do, instead of what is actually being done by the game rules. If they had published rules then that would be a completely different story. To be fair I haven't watched all the game play videos, so maybe they gave a better idea but what I skimmed through wasn't what I'd constitute as gameplay.

 Dark Severance wrote:
Actually with regards to the Kickstarter I sat back and didn't interfere because i was on the outside. The only notable input I made on the comments forum got a LOT of echoes backing the concept. So it may be wrong, but it was well receioved (mixed drone add ons).

I wasn't refering to interfereing with the campaign. In all reality every backer is on the outside. I didn't purchase extra drones becasue I don't know the validity or reasons behind needing more. I don't believe there was a clear answer that said I would have more than 12 Drones on the table at one time, nor do I know that having a mix of drones gives any real benefit to gameplay experience. That is why it is a matter of preference. Like Zombicide, having extra zombies is great but there has been too little times that I've ran out of Zombies unless I was doing custom games. But again that comes down to preference

 Dark Severance wrote:
That is only a risk if the project becomes total vapour, if the game is published but the company fails to create a retail market, which can happen and might not be the fault of the game, then our copies will become increasingly collectible.

That isn't entirely true there are a lot of KS that succeed but never see retail. Some of them are designed as small projects for one off, do a run of X copies (ie: 1000-1500) and sell out. That usually happens because the KS paid for the initial run, but you can't simply just purchase 100-200 more copies when your done and normally have a min order requirement that they may or may not have money for to do a second run.

The other reason is even though a KS is successful, it isn't published, it is self published unless they are working with a publisher (which a good portion don't). They don't usually have distributor channels setup or understand the process to work with retailers (ie: Wild West Exodus) starting out. Others don't realize that typically retailers/wholesalers buy a product at 40-60% reduced cost, then markup. If costs to produce the game are too much then traditional retail channels don't work.

Lanterns: Harvest Festival is an example but was later picked up by Renegade Games who took over publishing and bringing it to retail. There was also a different KS that production costs were at $50, they sold it on Kickstarter for $80 but through normal distributor/retail channels it would mean MSRP would put it $110-150 and for that game it wouldn't work.

In the last hours happened so much it was tough to follow online.

Below you can find a brief overview.


Two SG were met:






Both AI Numan Hybrid Projcet models' SG remained locked:






'Listening company' story continued: Who was missing miss officer can still hire her as addon or ask for more Oneda sisters:






AI Human Hybrid project was offered in two additional forms:






The terminals haven't added much to the terminal value of the project:




Links to the campaign:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1803723298/human-interface-nakamura-tower/posts/1237107

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1803723298/human-interface-nakamura-tower/posts/1237506

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1803723298/human-interface-nakamura-tower/posts/1237583

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1803723298/human-interface-nakamura-tower/posts/1237626

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1803723298/human-interface-nakamura-tower/posts/1237653

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1803723298/human-interface-nakamura-tower/posts/1237679



Automatically Appended Next Post:

The final result 87,891 GBP pledged by 970 backers in 30 days. Guys from PING cheer along with all HINT supporters.

The summary of freebies for a 60+ GBP pledge:



Link to the campaign:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1803723298/human-interface-nakamura-tower/posts/1237710

I forgot to back this in the final moments got distracted play super nintendo :(

As has been mentioned - message them, I can almost guarantee that they won't say no to more money! And can't hurt to ask.

I think the situation that they wanted to avoid was people buying a handful of add-ons and no base game, which would drive up the complexity of packing orders, not give them a decent lump sum of cash, and not spread the number of game owners who would be likely to give them more cash in the future.

I have no problems with Post Industrial wanting to make the core game the minimum for pledge manager entry. It is logical to only count those customers at this stage. If you arent in for a core game then while there may be money to be made there is no indication you will get into their hobby brand.

Buying one or two models to play Infinity is useful but gives a lobsided start up.

However post pledge campaign go for it. Email and ask to be added to the pledge manager for anything. From a single add on model to the whole lot. It is in their interest to accept you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rademon wrote:


Both AI Numan Hybrid Projcet models' SG remained locked:

We didn't make the second one, at £95K but the end total exceeded the first.

rademon wrote:

'Listening company' story continued: Who was missing miss officer can still hire her as addon or ask for more Oneda sisters:

Good. She was popular, just the Cyborg Hunter was more popular.

Sher is verty underarmoured for raid, and has a lowcut body armour, which doesnt make that much sense. Is she a rear controller who strayed to close the the insert team's contact area, due to a problem with the Pacification assault?

 Orlanth wrote:
Sher is verty underarmoured for raid, and has a lowcut body armour, which doesnt make that much sense. Is she a rear controller who strayed to close the the insert team's contact area, due to a problem with the Pacification assault?

Since she is a Lieutenant I'd assume she was in charge of the Police Squad or a squad but not sure if they are using base command levels. Officer was in charge of the pacification fireteam, so she would traditionally be in charge of a squad (2-3 fireteams of 3-4 units traditionally). I would think that would mean she would stay towards the back as a person in charge.

While the choice of body armour for her is due to the sexuality over protection it makes no sense for her to lead an armoured assault squad without armour.

Until they named her, I wought she would be a Police officer rather than an officer in the police.

Police Lieutenants are fairly senior though, Lieutenants and Captains for citycops are like Majors and Colonels in armies.

yes I can see her being the tough Lt who is an administrator, but puts herself in the field and coordionates from close to the action. Too close if she enters the Tower.

Yeah it was kinda a shame for me that she didnt really look like she suited with the rest of Raid 44. Would have been cool to see her also riot geared up.

The problem was that if I went in for 1 pound.. I could not adjust my pledge afterwards to the base game. It wasn't about adding things on at the 1 pound level or anything. Meaning, right this second.. I can't go in on the core game because I am moving. in a month or so after all of that is settled down, I can do the amount they want from that.

Incidentally, I have little interest in the base game but like the sci-fi miniatures for other games and general collecting.

 carlos13th wrote:
Yeah it was kinda a shame for me that she didnt really look like she suited with the rest of Raid 44. Would have been cool to see her also riot geared up.

If you compare her legs to the Raid 44 officers, she has essentially the same armor there. Although we're comparing concept art vs renders so there is some variance. The legs on the Raid 44 though are cloth legs, wrapped with protective gear. Their chests are basically an armored vest similar to hers. If you compare real life current woman vests, they have about the same amount of equal visible neck area. It isn't like it is below her chest or her chest is exposed, it is actually above them covering them.

The real question is she an unmodified human or does she have cybernetics? Then it is a matter of is the rest of Raid 44 armored unmodified humans and that is why they are armored and/or if the cyber-limbs have a equal or higher armor protection than SWAT gear.

If you look closely at her exposed arm, you will notice there are hard lines on the skin. They aren't dirt, paint or tattoos and usually in cyberpunkish games it means it is a cybernetic arm. It may split open to have an exposed or hidden gun or it could simply be that way for easier repair and access. Her face and neck area has the same hard lines, although it is harder to tell if they are just dirt/shadows but it implies a possible cyber-chest and face. The face is reminiscence of the actual image for Human Interface with the lines, showing it isn't a unmodified human face.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MLaw wrote:
The problem was that if I went in for 1 pound.. I could not adjust my pledge afterwards to the base game. It wasn't about adding things on at the 1 pound level or anything. Meaning, right this second.. I can't go in on the core game because I am moving. in a month or so after all of that is settled down, I can do the amount they want from that.

Incidentally, I have little interest in the base game but like the sci-fi miniatures for other games and general collecting.

It is probably best to just find someone who will let you piggy back on their pledge. They already said we can add multiple pledge levels to double pledge, so it would be better to find someone who has access to PM... probably someone more local at least and may end up cheaper in the long run.

I had to drop out of this one, sadly, due to Real Life intruding and demanding the funds for Real Life things.

If anyone would be OK with me adding some stuff on through their pledge (USA based, preferably!), please PM me - thanks!

I'll certainly ask if I can still kickstart this.

Kind of left my mind with concentrating on my finals and then binge playing vidya games.

 Alpharius wrote:
I had to drop out of this one, sadly, due to Real Life intruding and demanding the funds for Real Life things.

If anyone would be OK with me adding some stuff on through their pledge (USA based, preferably!), please PM me - thanks!

First point of call is to email PING.
Piggybacking is messy.

Depends on who you work with.

I've had nothing but success doing it so far.