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Made in us
Spawn of Chaos




This is a list I've been tinkering with lately and I've been having a fair amount of fun with. While marauders do sound like they are amazing, and I've even run them a couple of times and they do live up to their points cost, I prefer the theme of the elite army and the idea of making the ultimate soldiers heh. So basically this runs down to Warriors and more Warriors and beefing them up to handle just about anything. I'll just post the list though before I rant and notes about it afterwards:

Lord:
Sorcerer Lord LvL 4 Lore of Death, Infernal Puppet, 4+ ward save common item (forget name, 45 points), Enchanted Shield, Necrotic Phylactery, Diabolic Splendor
[400]

Heroes:
Exalted Hero
BSB, MoT, Dragon Helm, 5+ward save common item (same as before, 30 points), shield
[190]

Core:
Warriors of Chaos x24
MoT, Shields, full command
[434]

Warriors of Chaos x23
MoT, Shields, full command
[418]

Special:
Chosen x20
MoT, Shields, Halberds, full command, Blasted Standard, Favor of the Gods
[515]

Knights of Chaos x5
MoN, Banner of Rage, full command
[315]

Rare:
Chaos Warshrine
[130]

Chaos Warshrine
[130]

Chaos Warshrine
[130]

Chaos Warshrine
[130]

Hellcannon
[205]

Total: 2997

Basic idea is with 4 shrines and the chosen who have the favor...well that unit is a nightmare that can take down anything when it's time for them to step into the fray. The shrines temp buff any warrior unit to hold whatever they can while the chosen come in for the kill. Srhines also offer moderate support vs hordes joining them in and stomping them with their own stuff. That's not to say the warriors can't beat up stuff on their own...I've messed with this list idea before and they took down a carnosaur oldblood without too much trouble once (sorry Oldblood!). Besides the hammer/anvil part there I also run a few other things...the hellcannon is a terror weapon in combo with the mage who uses death not just for sniping down enemy characters but also general army support. -4 leadership hellcannon blasts to panic can scare things fairly often even with a standard nearby. He also has splendor and sits with the chosen (BSB does too for safety) so if they get fear/terror and he gets the -3 leadership cast off then you deal with the same problem while fighting those nasty guys. A 24 inch range cast to reduce enemy Str and Toughness also let the soldiers mop down just about anything with ease even more. Knights either intercept whatever big nasty monster they and give it hell before it stomps on the lines or just go on a rampage vs enemy blocks and grind em down. I don't expect them to live every game, but any distractions and damage they cause are sure to be worth it.

General notes about points and other options:
I was on the fence between Death and Shadow lores, but death won out barely. Might try it a few times to see what works in the end. I was contemplating halberds on the rest of the regulars and trimming down their numbers by one or two each to afford it too. Necrotic Phylactery could go either way too, Lord or BSB...I just went with Lord in case he misfires the purple sun and it centers on him (the two would be opposite ends of the front rank to hopefully keep them both from being hit by it should that happen).

40k:
1750 Nids
1750 Nurgle Chaos

WHFB:
3000 Tzeentch Warriors of Chaos 
   
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Made in ca
Elusive Dryad




Are you allowed 4 warshrines? I don't know the new scaling rules but at 2k you can only take 2 right?

"Like a sniper using bollocks for amunition" 
   
Made in us
Spawn of Chaos




Yes, 2k only allows for 2 of them but at 3k+ the rare duplicates can double up (4x in other words). At 2k I would run 2 and a hellcannon still though!

Edit: bad wording.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/07 09:05:03


40k:
1750 Nids
1750 Nurgle Chaos

WHFB:
3000 Tzeentch Warriors of Chaos 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Stone Golem





Beyond the World's Edge Mountains

I'm torn on necrotic phylactery on the lord or BSB- I had it on the lord for the same reason (purple sun FTW!) but decided the BSB needed it more at the moment. I certainly might waffle back the other way, though!

With only 4 dice to roll for spells, you're not going to get purple sun a lot of the time. I think lore of death might be a safer bet, if you're trying to take down large numbers of the enemy- you can use the signature spell to lower their initiative, then cast one of the two spells that makes them take an initiative test or be removed (pit of shades and something else). And that's not even the #6 spell!

So, shadow might be a better bet for you- unless, of course, you're hoping to use lore of death to snipe out enemy characters, which it seems to be exceedingly good at...

   
Made in ca
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot





Those Warriors are tough cookies with a 3+/5++ save in CC and 3+/6+ out, so maybe their units could be reduced to 18.

I would suggest the same for the block of Chosen. Now from what I've read if you take extra weapon options you have no choice but to use them. So with the halberds taken you wouldn't be able to switch to hw and shield. Since you're looking at having the Chosen as your dedicated hammer you should drop the shields.

Now since you have only three blocks of infantry and two characters I think that four Warshrines is a bit overkill. I don't use them myself, but I think they can only buff characters, unit champs and units of Chosen as they're the only unit to benifit from EotG. At most there should be three of them. One for each character and one for the unit of Chosen.

Myself, I only even have a unit champ in the units where I am going to place a character. It allows me to have my unit champ declare challenges while my hero/lord lays on the hurt. Also, the points you pay for a unit champ, which only gets one more attack then everyone else and the rest of the profile is the same, is a bit high. It's a point saver which allows you to have more flexibility I think.

The unit of Knights really only need a musician. They shouldn't be going head to head with large blocks since they'll get stuck. To be honest, cavalry is going to be more of a support tool now. They should be able to generate enough active combat res agaisnt smaller units to see them through most combats and if they're going to support a combat then they'll be going for flanks. If that's the case then the points you pay for the banner isn't really worth as much.

The points saved should go towards getting a second Hellcannon. One is good, two are better. It's the only shooting WoC really have and it's one of the best warmachines out there.

nosferatu1001 wrote:That guy got *really* instantly killed.
 
   
Made in us
Spawn of Chaos




RiTides- I'm still on the fence between those as well regarding the lores and Phylactery haha. I hadn't thought of that combo with shadow spells before and that seems really nice to take down masses fairly quick... darn another factor to think about! I went with death for those leadership terror tactics in combo with the hellcannon and EotG blessings (fear/terror) that barely won over. The sorc's main role is to snipe down what characters and monsters he can before they cause damage to the lines (or scare them off) then do support for the army. If he went shadow though the phylactery will probably bounce back to BSB, it was more for his own safety!


Infreak- The shrines do bless entire units, not just the characters- I had to look this up a few times to make sure I wasn't crazy myself. I may drop the shields on chosen for a few points as it was an old habit for defense from shooting but with Blasted Standard it is probably overkill. I may try trimming the points down some on the blocks- they were large so that combined with their killing strength and large size that after they did their round of melee or two they could whittle down a steadfast unit to not have as many ranks as them. I used to run a little similar list with 4 blocks at 15 each or so before this, I would have to figure out the points exactly. I sort of split the blessings I was doing before to keep multiple units going strong. A unit of warriors with +1 str and armor save increase and I got my knights with +1 toughnness and attack...those two took down pretty much the whole army one game heh.

Good point on the champs again, that's mostly just another old habit of mine along with the knights. Trimming the banner gets rid of banner of rage though so that's possible as well returning to MoK, I would just lose MoN to do so again. After all these points saved I'll have to run the numbers again, but I can only grab a 2nd Hellcannon if I get rid of 2 shrines (750 rare limit). Aside from that, any other ideas towards what would be good for those points? I was thinking maybe a chariot even, they seem to have gotten fairly strong in these new rules.

40k:
1750 Nids
1750 Nurgle Chaos

WHFB:
3000 Tzeentch Warriors of Chaos 
   
Made in ca
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot





I'm not entirely sold on chariots. Yes they can't be destroyed by a single s7 hit anymore, but their effectiveness is reduced with step up. So now your chariot could very well get killed after a round or two of combat.

With the extra points you can put MoT on the warshrines. That'll improve their survivability with a 3+ ward iirc.

nosferatu1001 wrote:That guy got *really* instantly killed.
 
   
Made in us
Spawn of Chaos




That was another thought for marking them...however that would also require dropping a shrine to begin with (at 725/750 rare points spent). Going with the theme of blessing units to be strong I was considering trimming points off the sorc down enough to afford Valkia- 4 shrines with rerolling their blessings would let me control the power they grant a lot more, especially on the chosen group who can modify their roll to force a duplicate and further rerolls if it was a bad one. Taking her also almost functions pretty much like a BSB and a melee lord at the same time- all friendlies within 12 reroll break tests and chaos naturally rerolls panic so I may even be able to free that.

40k:
1750 Nids
1750 Nurgle Chaos

WHFB:
3000 Tzeentch Warriors of Chaos 
   
Made in ca
Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot





From what I understand a BSB will allow you to re-roll just about any ld test you take. Valkia only allows for break tests, unless her ability get changed with the coming erratas. Having a bsb is better and cheaper at this point.

Depending on how you trim things, you might be able to fit in a second exalted or a lvl1 sorc with MoN to character snipe.

I know that you really want to keep four warshrines in your army, but tbh I think one needs to go so you can have a bit more flexibility. Something to consider anyways.

Out of curiosity, have you already made four warshrines? I've been thinking about making one, but I'm not too sure how useful it would be.

nosferatu1001 wrote:That guy got *really* instantly killed.
 
   
Made in ca
Elusive Dryad




Infreak wrote:you might be able to fit in a second exalted or a lvl1 sorc with MoN to character snipe.


If you were going to add a lvl 1 sorc add a third eye of tzeentch one. With the ability to see through pretty much everything you can almost guarantee you can make use of the enemies best spells.

"Like a sniper using bollocks for amunition" 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch





Albany, NY

I think you've got 2 warshrines too many. Even if they get t.stomp, warshrines still suck as a unit, particularly in 8th where everything has more ranks than them. Their buff is cool, but not worth the unit it comes with IMO. Also don't go for MoT unless it's for theme, the only thing shrines are good at is living as is, and do you really think anybody is going to shoot them? Pretty low priority targets, frankly.

On the phylactery, is it not a talisman? Just like the 4+ ward item? Hence why I haven't taken it myself, I'd much rather have a ward save on such an important character.

As noted, you don't need the knight champ, so that plus the 2 shrines give you 280 points to play with. If you need more there's the lord's splendor too. I'm thinking support caster and healthy block of marauders myself, or maybe ogres or something interesting.

- Salvage

You're going beyond even RAI to RAP, rules as poetry. - DukeRustfield 
   
Made in us
Spawn of Chaos




Oops, kind of forgot the thing in regards to talismans, guess that's gonna go regardless. I prefer the wardsave too more than that immunity. I can give a shot with less shrines- having favor lets me control the power more anyways as is, it is something I didn't run before. With those points and others freed I have a few options opening up- one of which is the 2nd cannon as they are nasty, but I'm also fond of a mounted khorne lord running around- he's been an old favorite of mine since I started the hobby. I actually did run a lvl 1 sorc with eye in one game but I had trouble having enough PD for both him and my own main Sorc Lord to effectively use it. I'd probably use him as a MoN sniper support just to use that basic spell and divert DD for the main sorc to cast without opposition. Basically my options after tinkering points goes to:

Hellcannon number 2
Khorne Lord causing hell with his knights
Sorc Sniper and some small smashy unit like the ogres (I like tougher things myself, marauders just don't fit my style too much despite their effectiveness)

Edit: Sorry, forgot to mention about the shrines. I haven't actually made any yet and have just been using proxies against my friends to get a feel for them so far. I got a lot of models from different armies to dissect to make though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/07 22:16:26


40k:
1750 Nids
1750 Nurgle Chaos

WHFB:
3000 Tzeentch Warriors of Chaos 
   
Made in ca
Elusive Dryad




Asuroth wrote:I actually did run a lvl 1 sorc with eye in one game but I had trouble having enough PD for both him and my own main Sorc Lord to effectively use it. I'd probably use him as a MoN sniper support just to use that basic spell and divert DD for the main sorc to cast without opposition.


I don't know the WoC well enough but you don't need to be a tzeentch sorc to take the third eye right? you could therefore still be a nurgle character sniper, or use the signature from lore of death for a similar role. This would give you the option of stealing some amazing spell from your opponent or just stick with the regular character sniping. Not to mention if you do wounds with the death spells you can get dice back which could let you drop 2 purple suns in 1 round (this is what I saw happen - big purple sun #1 from lvl 4 killed 20 models he got back 7 dice and cast a small purple sun using third eye on a lvl 1 sorc killing 12 more and got back 4 dice which he used to take out a bsb using one of the lore of death character snipes)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/07/07 22:49:37


"Like a sniper using bollocks for amunition" 
   
Made in us
Spawn of Chaos




Some revisions after taking the advice. Warriors shrunk down a little and unneeded commands trimmed along with a few newcomers with the points freed.


Lord:
Sorcerer Lord LvL 4 Lore of Death, Infernal Puppet, 4+ ward save common item (forget name, 45 points), Enchanted Shield
[355]

Heroes:
Exalted Hero
BSB, MoT, Dragon Helm, 5+ward save common item (same as before, 30 points), shield
[190]

Chaos Sorcerer Lvl 1, Lore of Shadow, Third Eye, Power Familiar, Other magic shield at 5pts (ignore first hit on a 2+)
[140]

Core:
Warriors of Chaos x18
MoT, Shields, musician, banner
[326]

Warriors of Chaos x18
MoT, Shields, musician, banner
[326]

Marauder Horseman x5
MoK, Flails
[105]

Special:
Chosen x18
MoT, Halberds, full command, Blasted Standard, Favor of the Gods
[457]

Knights of Chaos x5
MoK, musician
[240]

Chaos Ogres x3
MoK, Chaos Armor, Great Weapons, musician
[190]

Rare:
Chaos Warshrine
[130]

Chaos Warshrine
[130]

Hellcannon
[205]

Hellcannon
[205]

Total: 2999

Edits: Being stupid with points numbers.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/07/08 00:01:27


40k:
1750 Nids
1750 Nurgle Chaos

WHFB:
3000 Tzeentch Warriors of Chaos 
   
Made in us
Bush? No, Eldar Ranger




Asuroth, this updated list seems much more balanced than the first. All in all, I think having two cannons firing at reduced leadership enemies will be devastating. However, I'm a little confused why you went with the level 1 caster using shadow instead of just going with the "snipe" spell from the nurgle lore?

 
   
Made in us
Spawn of Chaos




The shadow mage is rarely using his own lore if the other guy has his own lvl 4 caster (a safe bet) to copy- but the Nurgle lore isnt being used mostly due to the cost of the mark (affordable if I drop the Power Familiar and do something random with 5 points). The other option is Death and just go with the basic for sniping as well, it has roughly the same effect as the Lord's casting value as both are Ld 8. The only reason he is shadow is to either get one random decent spell to further amp the warriors effectiveness (-str or toughness of an enemy unit) or another combo with lord, basic spell reduces enemy I and then lob the purple sun at them...initiative test or die at -d3 intiative, ouch. Then there's death to either fill up the gaps the Lord doesn't learn and generate more power through him sniping for the Lord to further cast. Honestly though the support caster has too many choices so it's just gonna come down to repeated uses of his options to see what goes best in practice.

40k:
1750 Nids
1750 Nurgle Chaos

WHFB:
3000 Tzeentch Warriors of Chaos 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh






Dallas, TX

Why give the blasted standard to the chosen? Aren't they going to be blessed by the shrines? Why not go for the 4+ ward save from said shrine? Give them the banner of rage, or something cheaper like the all flaming attacks banner or Armour Piercing banner?

40k Armies I play:

Just clocked my Emperor's Children at 42,615 points. Who wants to play Warhammer literal 40k?

Glory for Slaanesh!

Warmachine Factions: Menoth, Khador 
   
Made in us
Spawn of Chaos




The blasted standard is more of a safety for them- while the other banners do fit their offense role better I'd prefer to have something to keep them alive before they reach combat from the buffed siege weapons running around. The odds of the 4+ ward from blessing is fairly low even with the favor (1/12) which may not show up at all in a battle.

40k:
1750 Nids
1750 Nurgle Chaos

WHFB:
3000 Tzeentch Warriors of Chaos 
   
Made in us
Snotty Snotling




Boss_Salvage wrote:I think you've got 2 warshrines too many. Even if they get t.stomp, warshrines still suck as a unit, particularly in 8th where everything has more ranks than them. Their buff is cool, but not worth the unit it comes with IMO. Also don't go for MoT unless it's for theme, the only thing shrines are good at is living as is, and do you really think anybody is going to shoot them? Pretty low priority targets, frankly.
- Salvage


Sadly, the errata says no Thunderstomp for shrines.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch





Albany, NY

The sucktasm continues ...

(Aside: do things that the FAQ says doesn't get t.stomp - warshrine, gyro - get stomp instead? Or nothing?)

- Salvage

You're going beyond even RAI to RAP, rules as poetry. - DukeRustfield 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Stone Golem





Beyond the World's Edge Mountains

"sucktasm"...?

I can't find that one in my handy Dakka Dictionary of Slang, for some reason

   
Made in us
Superior Stormvermin





I think your warriors are in too big of units, lots of points wasted on dudes that will never get to attack methinks.
I think if you bring 4 war shrines you must bring valkia.
I think you are going to be very outnumbered, I don't mean outnumbered how WoC are normally outnumbered, i mean outnumbered like...uh...have you seen the movie "300"?
   
 
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