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CCS: Straken, standard, medic, flamer, vox, Astropath

PCS: PW, 4x flamer
IS: PW, flamer, Comm w/PW
IS: PW, flamer

VS: Harker, 3xSniper, vox

VS: PF, 3x Melta, vox, demo

2x Scout Sentinels: AC, HKM

Vendetta w/HB

Straken and his modest IS blob are the bait, possibly sitting on a tantalizingly close-to-the-enemy objective. Then a lot of mean gak comes out of nowhere.

What happened to Vostroyans?

You saw the thread. Any comments on the list, people?

Could really do with some feedback on this.

I don't like your special weapons on Harkers squad. You should make more use of relentless, I would have 3x flamers and give the rest shotguns. What is in the vendetta?

you now they will also outnumber you do you? I have recently made a list. 850 points of CSM and I got almmost as many men as you. Knowing that a CSM outclasses a Guardsmen. Wait till I give you a 1000 points CSM list to play against. It IS a good list if it is played correctly though.

firstly, vets need to take "demolitions" in order to take a demo charge.

Secondly, I hate to say it, but this list is also sort of all over the place. You've got one faction containing a blob squad+ straken footslogging towards victory, while another faction sits in the bushes and shoots while another faction outflanks a single squad of guys.

I love the straken+power blob combo. Perhaps you could get rid of Harker and bring a vet squad that supports that better. As for the outflanking, I like it, but I'm a little concerned that it lacks punch. All your opponent needs to do is take out a single squad with an army that hasn't been softened up by artillery fire first. Having the sentinels showing up and tying up things in close combat might make it work, though.

It looks pretty fine overall, though, and should be reasonably competitive. The only thing left would be to see how it plays out on the field.

phantommaster wrote:I don't like your special weapons on Harkers squad. You should make more use of relentless, I would have 3x flamers and give the rest shotguns.

I thought about that a lot and still haven't made my mind up. Unlike Relentless, Harker confers Infiltrate, Stealth, and Move through Cover on the rest of his squad, making his monster-hunting vet snipers better than ratlings for two points more each--plus six other dudes to keep them safe when push inevitably comes to shove. The shotguns may be a good idea either way, though.

phantommaster wrote:What is in the vendetta?

Melta vets.

Scrazza wrote:I have recently made a list. 850 points of CSM and I got almmost as many men as you. Knowing that a CSM outclasses a Guardsmen. Wait till I give you a 1000 points CSM list to play against.

Narly 50 CSM in an 850 list? Is there anything else in it? In any case, this list falls doesn't have a good counter to heavy infantry.

Scrazza wrote:It IS a good list if it is played correctly though.

It will definitely take a deft touch.

Ailaros wrote:firstly, vets need to take "demolitions" in order to take a demo charge.

Right, already calculated into their cost.

Ailaros wrote:Secondly, I hate to say it, but this list is also sort of all over the place.

If you're referring to attack vectors, I agree. The blob that I learned about from you and EF is bait. Not helpless by any stretch of the imagination, either, so it should draw plenty of attention. I envisioned the other 3/4 points (per your spending suggestion) as a fifth role in the list that you came up with--namely, disruption. The vendy brings in the AT vets and then goes into AT gun boat mode itself. The sentinels are their back-up -OR- a throw-away distraction to let the vendy vets do their job better. Finally, Harker leads the snipers from cover to cover hunting monsters or just generally being a pain.

I just wish I had space here for two more things: MoO and Sly Marbo. Oh, and maybe something that could stand up to Termies . . .

Thanks for the comments, guys. Is the general consensus that the points on Harker could be better spent elsewhere?

I really don't think harker is that great. I think you're spending a lot of points on a unit that doesn't really do much. I'd rather use those points to take a squad with fist and plasma guns.

In general, this list seems to be all sizzle and no steak. That's not saying it's bad, it's just that I prefer lists with more of a focus and more of a focus on men and guns.

So, Polonius, is it fair to say that--Harker aside--your reservation is a matter of play style? Regarding Harker, his squad is less expensive than walking melta/fist Vets. I'm still not sure how he can best be used. I have been working on a variation of this list in trying to deal with heavy infantry and have been considering dropping him--but given that his Squad weighs in so comparatively cheaply it is hard to say what should replace him.

yeah, i guess play style is the best word for it. I don't play much at 1000pts, and I run mostly mech, so I really dont' have the experience to weigh in. My theory hammer says that I'd like more beef, but that's just me.

have you considered Harker's squad taking the melta and demo? for outflanking tanks

The great thing about Harker's Devils is that they can outflank w/o a Valk/Vendy. But you can't get a fist in the squad or your point's worth (such as it is) for carapace. To me, that makes them sub-par as Melta or Plasma vets. I have often thought that Harker might be at his best standing next to Straken--but getting them together while taking full advatage of Harker could be problematic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Polonius: I can understand your love of mech and admit this list would probably work best on a cover-heavy table. They are Catachans after all. With doctriness gone, the only thing keeping the regiments identifiable are their special characters, leaving Vostroyans et alia in the lurch.

Manchu wrote:Right, already calculated into their cost.

Ah, missed that.

Manchu wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Secondly, I hate to say it, but this list is also sort of all over the place.

If you're referring to attack vectors, I agree. The blob that I learned about from you and EF is bait. Not helpless by any stretch of the imagination, either, so it should draw plenty of attention. I envisioned the other 3/4 points (per your spending suggestion) as a fifth role in the list that you came up with--namely, disruption. The vendy brings in the AT vets and then goes into AT gun boat mode itself. The sentinels are their back-up -OR- a throw-away distraction to let the vendy vets do their job better. Finally, Harker leads the snipers from cover to cover hunting monsters or just generally being a pain.

Okay, sure, but this plan seems to be very complex with certain things doing certain things at certain times, or it could all fall apart. Complex strategies, generally speaking, are more fragile. Therefore, generally speaking, complexity is bad, while relative simplicity is good.

And for the record, yeah, I do use a lot of distrations, but my distracting units are ones that I brought to fill a role that there's no way that they're going to be able to fill (so I might as well distract). I'm not certain I like the idea of taking a unit whose sole primary purpose is to act as a distraction, at least, not at 1000 points.

I concede that "distraction" may not have been the best term. Disruption is better. The point is to simulateously manipulate and dsirupt the enemy plan at multiple points. While the list may require good judgment I don't think it involves any overly complicated plan. Every list makes assumptions about the enemy. The measure of a list is whether it has the capacity to turn those assumptions into reality.