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Hey folks!

I've been assembling Necrons.

My current 2,000 point list looks like this:

HQ: Deceiver
HQ: Destroyer Lord (Phase Shifter, Rez Orb + War Scythe)
Troop1: 11x Warriors
Troop2: 12x Warriors

Fast1: 3x Wraiths
Fast2: 3x Wraiths
Fast3: 3x Wraiths

Heavy1: Monolith
Heavy2: Monolith
Heavy3: Monolith

This past weekend, I had an opportunity to field them against a combined army of Tau and Space Wolves. It was a friendly game, and I didn't get army lists, but I'll do my best to try reporting them from recollection. Since I don't have pictures, I'm going to refer to positions on the board from my perspective.


2k Space Wolves:
Logan Grimnar
2 Rune Priests (living lightning, murderous hurricane....not sure if there was a JoTWW in there)
2-3 rhinos with grey hunter squads
2-3 razorbacks (I think all had twin-linked lascannons)
Land Raider Redeemer
3x Long Fang squads (scattered lascannons, mostly missile launchers)
1x Lone Wolf
1 landspeeder

I could be missing stuff, I think that's what he had.

2k Tau:
Shas'o with bodyguard suits; missiles / plasma...someone had a cyclonic ion blaster somewhere.
3x Suit teams, plasma/missiles, targeting arrays, shield drones
4-5 squads of firewarriors, one of them a carbine team.
2x units of broadsides with plasma.

We roll for mission: Annihilation. Roll for deployment: Dawn of War. Roll to go first: Opponents win it.

Enemy deployment: (reminder, positions are reported from my perspective)
Space Wolves put a rhino with a grey hunter squad and a rune priest in the back left. Tau put a Crisis team on his back right edge and line two firewarrior squads across the mid-field to deny me positioning for deployment.

Necron Deployment:
I put the Deceiver in my back right corner. Necron Warriors go into true reserve along with the monoliths - my wraiths and destroyer lord are coming out on turn1.

I use the Deceiver's power "Grand Illusion" to redeploy him in front of the firewarriors. *note* Having re-read the "Grand Illusion" rule, I'm not sure if I played it right (I'm new to Necrons) - he gets to redeploy - do I still need to keep 18" away? I'm not sure, but I didn't.

Enemy Turn One:
4,000 points of Tau and Space Wolves roll onto the board - Space Wolves on my left, Tau on my right. I belatedly realize that my C'Tan is positioned well for getting across the board....but he only has a 4+ invul save, and there are...well, I don't know how many lascannons, missile launchers, and missile pods they had, but I knew they were going to use them all. The firewarriors in front of the Deceiver fall back and run as well trying to get away. Between nightfight and my saves....the Nightbringer takes one wound. Woot!

Necron Turn One:
My destroyer Lord turbo-boosts onto the table with 9x wraiths in tow....up the far right flank. I'm playing Close Combat necrons and I want some of those Tau! My C'Tan moves up 6". He uses "Deceive" on a unit of Broadsides, who fail leadership and run off the table. Woot! There goes half the STR10 on the table.

My C'Tan assaults the unit of firewarriors running away from him, killing only two. They can't hurt him back. They PASS leadership on a 6 or less, and my C'Tan stays locked in combat. Double woot! *note 2* Deceive is not a shooting attack. The Deceiver has no weapons, it isn't anything that could be categorized as shooting; no strength, no AP, no psychic test, no scattering, no DICE involved....just point at a unit and make them take a leadership test. So I've been playing that he does what he wants to a unit in 24" but doesn't have to assault the unit he deceived since he hasn't shot at them. It makes sense from what I see in the rule, although I'll consider arguments made to the contrary; I'm still feeling out the Necron rules.

Enemy Turn Two:
My C'Tan is safely tied up in combat, and my destroyer lord and wraiths are hugging the side of the board over by the Tau. Tau open up with suits, firewarriors, more suits....everything. I had to roll a bunch of sets of dice, and in one set, I passed 16 of 17 of my 3++ invulnerable saves. One wraith went down. I actually passed the rest of my invulnerable saves across the board, it was spectacular. Dozens of dice (little chessex block) and no ones or twos.

My C'Tan consolidates out of combat 2d6 towards the rest of the Tau.

Necron Turn Two:
My wraith gets back up. Booyah. I roll for reserves: Neither warrior squad comes in. All three monoliths come in.

My three monoliths deep-strike across the Tau line, pushing his careful walls of firewarriors that are blocking suits around. None hit on target, but they hit roughly where I wanted them - basically bisecting the enemy deployment,and cutting the SW off from the Tau. The Deceiver points at the other unit of Broadsides, who wisely leave the board. No more STR10 on the board! My wraiths and destroyer lord move up and multi-assault into several units of firewarriors and one of his suit teams. I deal a bunch of wounds in exchange for losing a wraith; none of his units roll double ones and I catch and eat them, and consolidate behind the monoliths. My C'Tan assaults into a longfang pack (he's on the SW side now) and kill several, but he passes leadership).

Enemy Turn Three:
The remaining firewarriors and suits line up to get shots around my monoliths at my wraiths. The SW won't be able to see because of my positioning, but there's a hail of rapid fire pulse rifles, plasma, fusion blasters and missile pods coming my way.

Twin-linked lascannons, longfang missiles and lascannons open up on my monoliths and get two shaken results in total. Denied!
All those Tau open up on my wraiths, who roll more spectacular saves (and the Tau player rolled badly with his suits to wound), and I lose the other two in the damaged unit - one of my wraith squads is done, but they're packed in tightly behind a monolith for screening, so I'll still get WBBs. The Deceiver consolidates out of combat with misdirect again.

Necron Turn Three:
I roll for reserves - both warrior squads come out! I place them in my bottom right corner, as far away from the SW as I can get. My monoliths close the gap to form a more solid wall so that my wraiths and Lord can finish their work unmolested by Space Wolves. I roll for WBBs and one wraith gets back up. They portal through the monolith in front of them for a second WBB and the other two get back up too, leaving me with one unit of 3 and one unit of 6.

Two of my monoliths drop particle whips. One scatters through Logan's long fang squad nuking some missiles and a lascannon. The other evaporated a razorback. My wraiths assault everything that the Tau have left, wiping it out. He's got a suit team in reserve still, but that's it. Deceiver assaults back into Longfangs, killing all but two; they pass leadership.

Enemy Turn Four:
More plinking off of my monoliths. His redeemer land raider can't hurt me, his missile launchers aren't rolling sixes, and my wraiths are screened behind my monoliths. The Tau player gets his last suit team and drops them in front of my necron warriors - they all have fusion and plasma. He rolls abysmally and two warriors die.

Logan positions for an assault on my Deceiver but doesn't pull the trigger because I can leave combat. =p He's got a Lone Wolf inside the land raider, who comes wandering over towards my monoliths - he hasn't had an opportunity to try shooting me with melta yet, and I don't think he realizes that a chainfist doesn't get 2d6 against living armor. I decide to leave the C'Tan in combat this turn, and he finishes off the longfangs, and turns around to glare at Logan.

Necron Turn Four:
21 Necron Warriors rapid fire into the Tau suit team in front of them. They disappear and the Tau player packs up.
My monoliths move forward towards the SW corner and pull my wraiths through - they've suddenly covered 20" of the board, then move out 12" and pile up behind Logan and his long fang squad. My destroyer lord breaks off 2" so that he can assault the Lone Wolf - all of those assaults will leave the Lord within 2" of the wraiths, and with only two wounds...theoretically the lone wolf should go down.

I flux arc two monoliths and particle whip the third causing some dead grey hunters and long fangs. My wraiths charge in - 5 go into Logan, 4 into his grey hunter squad (with a rune priest), while the C'Tan goes into Logan. My wraiths cause 13 wounds to Logan....who passes every single one. The rune priest takes two and passes both, while the other 3 wraiths go into his long fangs, wiping them. C'Tan delivers 5 attacks into Logan, and only manages 2 wounds of the three I needed to do. DAMN IT! Logan swings back (he uses his once per game thingie that gives +1 attack to everyone, along with counter-attack) - he drops two wounds on the Deceiver, who fails one. His runepriest drops a wraith, but I end up winning combat. (I'm not sure if the Deceiver is fearless or not).

Space Wolf Turn Five:
Monoliths survive unscathed, and he is pretty much out of ranged firepower now, and in his corner, so my warriors are feeling safe. There's a 10 man unit of grey hunters hoofing it (they lost their rhino earlier) down the board that could potentially come threaten my warriors. I stay in combat with the C'Tan this turn and kill Logan. The wraiths kill the runepriest, and my destroyer lord kills the Lone Wolf.

Necron Turn Five:
My wraith fails WBB. Aww. :( I pull his unit through the monolith right behind them and still fail. Double aww. :( My warriors move up and towards my monoliths - one would be in portal distance, but the other is not. Deceiver attacks the land raider and explodes it. Wraiths eat grey hunters, now with wounded destroyer lord in tow. They get away and run off the board.

At this point, we call it - was getting late, and my total casualty count consisted of a single wraith. Two wounds on my Destroyer Lord, two wounds on Deceiver but they're still going.

Post-Game Thoughts:

There's a couple things that I'm not sure if I played right. It was a friendly game, we were drinking, it was fun....we didn't take the time to sort it out. My necrons have beaten face in a variety of situations now....its epic fun. I won't lie, I had fantastic rolls for saving - although my C'Tan's rolls to hurt things were never that hot, nor were my Destroyer Lord. And he failed two of the three wounds ever assigned to him. But my wraiths were freaking vessels of awesomesauce.

On a separate note.....if anyone out there has Tomb Spyders, I'd like to buy or trade for them! Please get in touch.

And this is why Dash of Pepper gets banned from all the LGS. He can take the worst army in the game and beat 4k with 2k.

Dash, a minor point, and a contraversial one at that, because I know not everybody agrees with this interpretation.

If you place a monolith on a unit, you can still mishap, it does not automatically push the unit out of the way. This is a result of the deep strike rules changing between the editions. So a DS monolith on top of an enemy unit can be delayed or misplaced.

Cheers

Andrew

So to get this straight, you played a match where you were outnumbered 2 to 1. And won with a loss of one Wraith? I mean you would not only have been rolling like God himself to do so, but to kill 4000 points in 5 turns?

Did you have an ally that you didn't mention or am I missing something here?

Dash: Sounds like very sound strategic thinking and play on your part, espcially in landing the Monoliths to divide out the two armies. Essentially you made it a Tau vs. Necron match up until about Turn 4, and by then there was simply nothing that could be done by the Space Wolves player as most of his stuff was essentially neutered by the Monoliths.

Effectively there is not much to comment upon your tactics. You keep the Phase Out from occuring by having the Warriors stay in reserve. Monolith deep striking was good. You made the right call to assault an army that is not CC oriented, and ripped apart the units that may of given you trouble in the Tau army.

I think the army needs stiffer competition and a broader sampling of what the Wraith Wing (and the Sypder Wing) can do. Alot of your saves have been REALLY good along with the reports I have seen you write up for your army.

There is probably a reason why Necrons don't see alot of play inside of tourneys, but from what you have been doing, maybe some people should dust off their models and return to smashing heads in with Necrons as people appear unprepared to deal with large giant Pyramids of Death.

Have you thought about mixing in some Scarabs with the Wraiths, or do you believe that all three slots need to be dedicated to the Wraiths?

lol, your opponents needed to kill, what, 2 dozen models for the phase out and they failed?

Looks like some people dont' know how to fight necron

I'm not really planning on getting my Necrons into tournament play at this time.

I'm banned from two local stores, so there's no need to bring a softer list than my already unoptimized Orks since I won't be attending any of the events anyway. I *GOT* necrons in the first place because the locals were whining that I was a cheesy WAAC gamer, and my answer was going to be to bring Necrons and continue to beat their faces in until they figured out that it wasn't me being a WAAC gamer, but their terrible tactics. Anyway, miles of drama spiraled out of that leading to me no longer being welcome in the local stores (due in large partto previously-mentioned locals threatening to boycott store if I played there). If anyone really cares, there's a link to it in my signature - over at Bald and Screaming.

Combined with the fact that I'm not sure on some of their rulings....

Combined with the fact that I'm pretty much done with competitive 40k for the year (tournament season is pretty much over unless I want to fly or drive from Florida to California or NY. Again.)

By the time my Necrons are whipped into GT painting shape, ready to rock and roll, fixed, assembled, patched and fearsome there should be a new Necron Codex out. Next year? And in the meantime I've got DE, and we're next up for a codex. In the meantime, my Necrons will be around for anyone who wants a piece.

Cool report but I have a few things I'd like to say:

You can't put the ctan anywhere you want, you just redeploy him...difference being you have to abide by the deployment rules of the scenario.

Did you move the monolith, teleport the wraiths, and then move the wraiths 12" all in the same movement phase? If so, you can't do that. The teleported unit can only move if the monlith didn't move either.

And you can push stuff out of the way with deepstriking monoliths because codex trumps BRB so nice job pushing him around.

You beat twice your amount of points with Necrons.....

You had some lucky rolling it seems, but still, good job.

Tau player tried for the phase out but 1 suit team wasn't going to phase out Dash unless he was extremely lucky on his rolls. Either way, leaving them out there to get rapid fired by 21 warriors was just suicide. I've faced that wall of fire before. Not much stands after all those gauss shots.

The broadsides running is what really killed the tau player's ability to contribute here. Those monoliths shouldn't have all survived against Tau railgun fire. Good job realizing your target priority. The plasma broadsides were a bad idea. Regular broadsides are much better, and in this battle railheads with submunitions would have been just the thing to soften the warriors. Either way he should have had more railguns on the board and less (or no fusion suits since that's just suicide).

Taking so many fire warriors outside of transports and leaving them open to assault was also not the best idea. The marine player should have screened the tau gunline or something because those firewarriors were just dead meat after deployment IMO.

Marshal_Gus wrote:And you can push stuff out of the way with deepstriking monoliths because codex trumps BRB so nice job pushing him around.

Which is why I said that many people don't agree with it. Codex only says that it is not destroyed when landing on another unit, just move them out of the way. Latest edition of rules now use mishaps, which have three results; delayed, 'misplaced' and destroyed. Codex only describes what happens for one of them, not the other two. So in this "rare" case, BRB outrules Codex, because of GWs sloppy writing styles. I would expect it to be sorted in the next codex.

Cheers

Andrew

I know this isn't much of an incentive Dash, but if you want to come to the Daboyz GT in Rochester in November I'll cover your entry fee. After all the entertainment you've given me me with these fantastic battle reports, it would be the least I can do.

About the 2,000 mile flight.....can't really help you on that one.

Yeah, Grand Illusion was played wrong. It specifies that the unit may be redeployed subject to the deployment rules for the mission. In the case of Dawn of War, that means you need to be on your own table half and at least 18" away from bad guys.

You know my feelings on the deepstriking monos from the other thread, but if your opponents were cool with it, then more power to you (it's a stupid technicality).

On your turn four you said you moved the monos forward and then pulled the wraiths through them. If either the monos or the wraiths move before teleporting, you cannot move any further with the unit you sucked through it.

On Decieve, there is nothing that says you must assault the same unit that you use it on (bonus goodies from the FAQ: you may use it on fearless units to actually make them go to ground, or if you use it to force a morale check on them and they fail, they take no retreat wounds).

Where's the Battle #6 from the Nova open? I've been waiting and I get this. Bring on the Orks already!

Maelstrom808 wrote:Yeah, Grand Illusion was played wrong. It specifies that the unit may be redeployed subject to the deployment rules for the mission. In the case of Dawn of War, that means you need to be on your own table half and at least 18" away from bad guys.

You know my feelings on the deepstriking monos from the other thread, but if your opponents were cool with it, then more power to you (it's a stupid technicality).

On your turn four you said you moved the monos forward and then pulled the wraiths through them. If either the monos or the wraiths move before teleporting, you cannot move any further with the unit you sucked through it.

On Decieve, there is nothing that says you must assault the same unit that you use it on (bonus goodies from the FAQ: you may use it on fearless units to actually make them go to ground, or if you use it to force a morale check on them and they fail, they take no retreat wounds).

Yeah... GG on beating 4k, but the C'Tan getting a first turn assault because of a misplayed Deceive is kind of a big thing against a gunline. Not trying to minimalize your win, but 16/17 3++ and a couple loose interpretations might mean you need some more test games before declaring victory across the board.

This is a big point. It was the Deceiver's quick assault that led to the Tau's downfall (the 2 deceives and the fire warrior assault). I thought that sounded very overpowered, but I don't play Necron so what do I know. If they had another round of shooting from his two broadside units and his pulse rifles, I think it would have made a huge difference

When dice go hot there's not really any tactics that can save you. Some seriously uber rolling (and some ice-cold rolling on behalf of your opponent) coupled with some solid tactical desicions won you this one.

Not sure about the Deciever's Turn 1 assault...pretty sure you played that one wrong, if you had had to stay 18" away I'm almost certain it wouldn't have been so easy to roll up his gunline.

I'd play a few more games before you make the face-beating claim at least. Otherwise...good job.

L. Wrex

Couple of notes:

-The broadsides weren't getting any shots on my Monoliths. When I deep-struck, instead of assaulting firewarriors and suits, I would have pulled myself through the monoliths and assaulted his broadsides - in a huge multi-assault involving firewarriors too. They would have run off the board without a shot anyway.

-Monoliths deep-striking onto enemy models - interestingly, I don't have an opinion here yet, except to note that some people think third edition rules should be followed, and others 5th edition rules. Apparently in third edition speak, Deceive is/was a shooting attack, but in 5th edition speak, the monolith can mishap on a deep-strike onto enemy models. I've literally had Necrons for a week now. I've not gotten involved in any of this debate yet, just played them as it made sense. With my Dark Eldar, I'm ok with RAW or RAI for *all* rules issues, as long as they all swing the same way. I'd feel the same here.

-Units teleporting through the Monolith: The codex says that models teleporting through the monolith treat it as if it were a stationary vehicle. I just looked at the FAQ, which said that they both need to not move, but then goes on to be confusing, especially in light of the Necron book's wording.

Obviously the trend here is that the necron rules are unclear. ><

With my Dark Eldar, rules always came down to two things, which I could always get answered ahead of time by a TO (RAI or RAW? IE, Nightmare Doll or Horrorfex?)

I must say, your luck was unbelievably good and your opponent's tactics were unbelievably bad. I mean, 2K from one of the least competitive armies putting the beatdown on 4K, of which 2K is from an upper-tier army? That is just downright absurd. Just the SW army by itself should've been able to crush that necron army if the player was anywhere near competent. I don't mean to berate your opponents (oh wait, actually I do), but they could sure use pointers from the forums here at dakkadakka (or any other website).

dash, wow... i'm suprised you redeployed the ctan right in front of the FW when the rules are crystal clear that you follow the normal mission deployment with the switch.

jy2 wrote:I must say, your luck was unbelievably good and your opponent's tactics were unbelievably bad. I mean, 2K from one of the least competitive armies putting the beatdown on 4K, of which 2K is from an upper-tier army? That is just downright absurd. Just the SW army by itself should've been able to crush that necron army if the player was anywhere near competent. I don't mean to berate your opponents (oh wait, actually I do), but they could sure use pointers from the forums here at dakkadakka (or any other website).

I think that runs concurrent with the general thought that Dash is ultra competitive and his opponents are not willing to push the envelope in terms of exercising the full abilities of their army and fighting using every trick at their disposal.

For instance, the Tau player did not fill up his Heavy Slots nor gave the Fire Warriors any mobility. Without said mobility, he may of well had taken Kroot for screening, defense, and infiltration, giving his line of troops fodder fire before getting smacked by a line of Wraiths and then Monoliths. Hell, forcing the Wraiths to crack open a transport and force him to spend a turn getting the Fire Warriors out of the transport would of borrowed him some time.

However, again this boils down to how Dashofpepper plays versus other players. Knowing an inherent weakness in a list, he will exploit it (for instance, Tau run away from close combat like it was fire). On turn 5 of the end of that game, all the Space Wolves were denied their mobility and their fiirepower wiffed badly versus the Monoliths. Dash excised a major strength of the Space Wolves by neutralizing his transports and taking three Monoliths to take on a strength of a SM codex list: anti-tank fire power.

That all being said, Dash will probably continue to win with his Necrons until he meets an equally challenging opponent who is prepared to fight Necrons with his list. A few things aside with rules questions and the way Necron abilities work in fifth, it was a convincing win nonetheless for the Necrons.

Awesome Report! I really like necrons and think that in the right hands can beat face! Hope to see more reports of your guys winning more games.

Now that my initial disbelief over this game is over... my hopes for the Necron race get only higher. I have to say I wasn't exactly a fan of Wraiths... but seeing what 9 of them can do in concert with a Lord is VERY impressive.

Damn Dash, you really just wrecked face.

Sad there's no pics, but good stuff as always!

This list survives off of the fact that nothing can kill your monoliths. It is a good tactic, and lots of good necron builds can be made using this idea. But when you face an opponent who has no problem punching out living metal armor 14, you will not meet with such ridiculous success.

extrenm(54) wrote:This list survives off of the fact that nothing can kill your monoliths. It is a good tactic, and lots of good necron builds can be made using this idea. But when you face an opponent who has no problem punching out living metal armor 14, you will not meet with such ridiculous success.

It's a hammer and anvil approach that does work very well as you have pointed out. Smash the enemy armies against the Monolith using the Wraiths.

It will be interesting to see though if the army loses the Wraiths in shooting and combat, how will the list win at that point.

dash, wow... i'm suprised you redeployed the ctan right in front of the FW when the rules are crystal clear that you follow the normal mission deployment with the switch.

I'm a little jealous though, because Dash's orks beat my necrons :( lol.

Dash - Yes, c'tan are fearless.

warboss wrote:dash, wow... i'm suprised you redeployed the ctan right in front of the FW when the rules are crystal clear that you follow the normal mission deployment with the switch.

You may have missed the part where I said that this was uh...the FIRST TIME I'D EVER PUT THEM ON THE TABLE? I freely admit that I don't know their rules very well yet. And that some of them are unclear. And that after looking stuff up, I had probably misplayed something. I also don't have a Necron codex yet; I was working off of memory and half of a .pdf that the guy who traded them to me gave me. Without having the FAQ.






*EDIT*
Also, a friend of mine did some math.


Assaulting into Ork boys, the boys need to statistically do 72 attacks to make a wraith dead.

72 attacks, 50% hit, 33% land, 33% get through 3++, 50% chance of WBB, 50% chance of second WBB = 1 dead wraith.

Dashofpepper wrote:Assaulting into Ork boys, the boys need to statistically do 72 attacks to make a wraith dead.

72 attacks, 50% hit, 33% land, 33% get through 3++, 50% chance of WBB, 50% chance of second WBB = 1 dead wraith.

And how would you think your Orks would do versus your Wraithwing Army?