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Hi everyone,
In the light of the new rules/models High Elves can now field, here is my new 1000 point list:

LORDS:
Mage (165)pts {Choosing spells with the new Lores of Magic is very useful}
-Lvl 2 Wzd (35)
-Seerstaff of Saphery (30)

CORE:
32 Spearmen (313)pts {4 Ranks of 8, all of which will be attacking thanks to: supporting attacks, spears and Martial Prowess}
-Full Command (25)

SPECIAL:
20 Sword Masters of Hoeth (355)pts {I'll reform them to have maximum contact with the enemy}
-Full Command (30)
-Lion Standard (25)
-The Skeinsliver (25) [Bladelord only]

Lion Chariot of Chrace (140)pts {Just for the 'Crunch!' factor}

TOTAL POINTS: 998

Just let me know what you guys think, what improvements you believe could be made and why. And don't worry, I have 10 Dragon Princes (the new ones, obviously - pre ordered) which I can use in the stead of Swordmaster's (not sure why I would - these are the new ones from IOB, as are the Spearmen, which are represented by the much cooler Lothern Sea Guard), or I'll just use them as a boost to get to 1500pts.

Hmm I dont really like such a large unit of spearmen. I would rather trim down 50-63 points to get either some more SM or an eagle

My main doubt with decreasing the unit size of the Spearmen is that they're not a particularly 'punchy' unit, like Swordmaster's. Where Swordmaster's can rely on individual strength, I believe that Spearmen must rely on weight of numbers too, rather than just pure power. There are lots of tougher opponents at the club I go to (such as Orcs, Beastmen, Saurus, Chaos and perhaps soon Dwarfs). With their mediocre Strength of 3, I need those Attacks.

As for adding Swordmaster's, its a good idea! I have extra ones, so I can expand on them without effort. I just don't want to rely on one powerful unit; I'd like my Spearmen to take some part in the plan. Suppose my Swordmaster's get taken down by Magic, or Shooting? I need a backup - something people often do is rely on one unit, and then have major problems when that unit gets killed. I think thats what they'll most likely be targeting, so I'll have to watch out for them!

I'm rather against the Great Eagle idea though, as people tend to take units sufficient enough to at least make it flee - it just doesn't have enough attacks to win a combat. I could use it as multi-charge tool though, or a Wizard Hunter - there aren't any Warmachines currently (except for my brothers undefeated Empire).

I think though, as a whole, adding more Swordmaster's is a definate, but probably in a bigger game (I'm not sure if the people at the club would verse me otherwise).

Thanks for your input.

Swordmasters would be better off in 2x10. A single mortar shot on 20 could wipe them out.

I'd also recommend trimming spears down to 5x5 or 6x5. Only having 4 ranks works when going horde, otherwise you want some wound soakers in the back.

aerethan wrote:Swordmasters would be better off in 2x10. A single mortar shot on 20 could wipe them out.

I'd also recommend trimming spears down to 5x5 or 6x5. Only having 4 ranks works when going horde, otherwise you want some wound soakers in the back.

True, I much prefer something more squareish unless there +40 of them.

Aerethan wrote:
A single mortar shot could wipe them out.

Do you mean Helstorm? I do see what you're saying though, and am obliged to do a lot of reforming during the game.

Aerethan wrote:
I'd also recommend trimming spears down to 5x5 or 6x5. Only having 4 ranks works when going horde, otherwise you want some wound soakers at the back.

My main reasoning behind having four ranks of eight is so that my Spearmen have all the attacks possible, particularly when I'm fighting Gors or Orcs. As I said earlier, I need those attacks. Originally I was going to go for four ranks of seven, but I had some extra points.

I think a bit of trial and error is in order.

aerethan wrote:Swordmasters would be better off in 2x10. A single mortar shot on 20 could wipe them out.

I'd also recommend trimming spears down to 5x5 or 6x5. Only having 4 ranks works when going horde, otherwise you want some wound soakers in the back.

2x10 would die in an instant if they were against a shooty army.
plus you need at least twenty models for rank bonus and steadfast.
SM is one of our most heavy hammers but they are pretty easy to kill with a 5+ as.
you'll either need a supportive caster (life or metal) or a second unit that does not die as easily..

2x10 splits the target which makes them actually last longer as a single mortar shot won't destroy all of them. and ranks beyond the second are wasted on SM as they aren't meant to win by static CR like rank bonuses.

A single unit will be prioritized over everything else in the army and will likely be dead before doing anything.

The club I go to doesn't have much shooting at all. There isn't any magic that can out-do mine (both HE and DE - I collect WE too; all three Elves) either.

Guardian_Phoenix wrote:Hi everyone,
Just let me know what you guys think, what improvements you believe could be made and why.[emphasis my own] And don't worry, I have 10 Dragon Princes (the new ones, obviously - pre ordered) which I can use in the stead of Swordmaster's (not sure why I would - these are the new ones from IOB, as are the Spearmen, which are represented by the much cooler Lothern Sea Guard), or I'll just use them as a boost to get to 1500pts.

So you ask us for help then defend the list?

Personally, I'd take minimum core and try to get as much in the special infantry as possible. I also have to say, is The Skeinsliver really necessary? It's an expensive upgrade.

For core I'd take over the large block of spearmen;

25 spears with FC: 250pts - sheer minimum, field in a square block of 5x5. It gives you a rank of bodies before your start to lose attacks.

20 seaguard with FC: 265 pts without shields, 285 with shields - I'd field these guys 4x5, this gives you 16 bow shots a turn over the spearmen, for less bodies. But I've found the 10 shots in stand and shoot petty useful. Add a banner of eternal flame to make the bow and spear attacks flaming.

I have to ask - are Lothern Sea Guard worth 4 extra points each just for a Bow? Does it help drastically in game? For 260pts, you can take 20 Lothern Sea Guard. For 270pts, you can take 30 Spearmen.

What would you recommend in the stead of The Skeinsliver?

LSG are overpriced. Better off taking spearmen. Our archers are mediocre anyway.

Make sure you pump Shield Of Saphery into your unit of Swordmasters, those guys attract ALOT of attention from enemy missile fire. Sucks I know, but when you do get them into combat they own haha.

Guardian_Phoenix wrote:

Aerethan wrote:
A single mortar shot could wipe them out.

Do you mean Helstorm? I do see what you're saying though, and am obliged to do a lot of reforming during the game.
both empie mortars and hellstorm use the big template fear mortars more as hellstorms really arent the best IMo

What are you packing 1 chariot? there is no use you need at least 2 for them to be effective and they are waaaay over costed. Id take a unit of seaguard that just fit into the 250pts bracket then max out your specials(keep the mage of course) don't take bolt throwers they are way over costed eagles are much more worth it

The problem I see here is the 32 Spearmen. They are in 4 ranks of 8, not all 8 will be in close combat in most cases as usually people tend to have ranks of 5-6. Which makes them a tad useless being in that formation. Unless I am missing something (still a bit new to 8th)

Anyways maybe you should trime it down to 4 ranks of 6 to save some points for a eagle?

Also I am not a big fan of unbackedup chariots. But it is a tactic choice not a fault. If you feel like replacing it maybe use some Ellyrian Reavers or a mage? Since you have no firing and only one mage it might be best to even that out by givin the ER a bow or just using them as fast moving support, but a second mage would be useful.

syanticraven wrote:The problem I see here is the 32 Spearmen. They are in 4 ranks of 8, not all 8 will be in close combat in most cases as usually people tend to have ranks of 5-6. Which makes them a tad useless being in that formation. Unless I am missing something (still a bit new to 8th)

Anyways maybe you should trime it down to 4 ranks of 6 to save some points for a eagle?

Also I am not a big fan of unbackedup chariots. But it is a tactic choice not a fault. If you feel like replacing it maybe use some Ellyrian Reavers or a mage? Since you have no firing and only one mage it might be best to even that out by givin the ER a bow or just using them as fast moving support, but a second mage would be useful.

Well my main worry with fielding smaller units is that they might get beaten up by tougher things like Gors, or Orcs. I tried a unit of 50 (proxie! My stuff is still in the mail!) Spearmen, and they worked very well against Gors. Naturally, not much has to be said for the Swordmasters. Suffice to say they enjoyed themselves.

Perhaps 6 ranks of 5 (total: 30), so the back rank can soak up any wounds, therefore leaving me with my max. rank bonus.

I'm not much of a fan of Great Eagles, because with War Machines being T 10, they can't take them out, and now that any casualties are now removed form the back, the enemy can now muster its full attacks against it if it flanks them. It could be used as a multi-charge tool, however, or perhaps a lone character killer.

You are right about the Lion Chariot though. I was intending to use it, like the Great Eagle as a multi-charge tool (except more powerful, just not as fast), but my points may be better off used elsewere. Any suggestions?
And aerethan, I agree completely: Lothern Sea Guard are NOT worth that extra 4 points over the Spearmen, just for a Bow. As you say 'Our archers are mediocre anyway'.

Well other uses of the points I think should be used to make another mage or for the Reavers, you could easily get 2 small units of Reavers with the points and use them to harass.

Warmachines are only toughness 10 when you shoot at them m8. In combat your fighting the crew, not the mortar itself so you take the toughess off the crews characteristics.