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Looked for a GK thread, and didn't see one.


Pinched from Stickmonkeys most excellent post over @ Warseer. (TY Stick!)


So this actually addresses much of the inquisition in gk questions:

Inq lords are hq and unlock ISTs as troops
ISTs are elite otherwise
ISTs can take chimera or valkerie as dt
Inq lord retinue looks more like ig command characters with some seritors thrown in
Temple Assassins one entry in elite, one stat line, options allow for customization into temple variants...but the actual temples are only mentioned in fluff, so some special rules look lost
Demonhosts look to be out
In troops we have ig conscripts...like an ig platoon, but conscripts only
Death cult assassins still elite, larger unit sizes, though
Penal legion squad in troops, different than ig codex entry
chimeras or valks as dt only, and only ig
Valk only dt, no vendetta option
Hellhounds in fast, same as ig, but not variants (Ed: ???)
Deathstrike launchers in heavy, same as ig...replacing orbital strike

Also, some weird dynamics in the ruleset if you have both inq and gk hq present. But details were not given.

(Ed: so from this batch it looks like inq is going to be viable, but I question really this more from a why standpoint. If gw did this, only the hq really separates it much from ig, but handicapped ig. Hope to see more soon once the nov nastiness ends. Damn de are blocking all my insight into the future...)

Cheers

Edit: penal legion troops are the fodder unit I was mentioning in the past, cause I know someone will ask.

Where is the Stormraven? My take is that a Stormraven kit is one of the principal drivers behind doing the Grey Knight codex (the other being the popularity of the Grey Knight Terminators).

This doesn't look right to me.

Seems like a very interesting way to incorporate the Inquisition without too much of a regular army feel. The omission of platoons and Leman Russes will put the emphasis on specialized troops for a specific task. I thought that all of the rumors were pointing directly away from an INQ/GK dex. Ah well, as long as it does have some GKs I'll be satisfied.

Tailgunner wrote:Where is the Stormraven? My take is that a Stormraven kit is one of the principal drivers behind doing the Grey Knight codex (the other being the popularity of the Grey Knight Terminators).

This doesn't look right to me.

This is just in addition to the stuff already rumored for GKs.
IE: GK termies, PA GKs, Walker-thingie....


Previous rumors that Stickmonkey posted:


Codex: there is much less focus on Inquisition aspects, and no SoB. No Allies. A GK army.



Boxes:
Storm Raven. obvious choice. Options for BA, GK and ???

TA knights: 5 pack, Paladin upgrades, squad upgrades. Psycannon, NFW, SSTH, banner?

PA knights: 10 pack, justicar upgrades, squad upgrades, extra bits. NFW, psycannon, incinerator, banner?

walker: There have been some rumors of a GK driven walker. I have not personally seen this in any incarnation. However, there is a boxed walker of some type. I suspect this is a dreadnaught box set that will also have bits for BA.

Tank: I have not seen mention of a GK troop transport. Rhino based with psycannon options has been in some PT. I list this as possible, but unlikely, 4 box sets of this size are about par for a release, 5 would be a surprise.



Blisters:
New Stern

New Chaplain?

Justicar upgrade character

Paladin upgrade character

Inquisition character

2 other blisters unknown contents



Other:
Later release of GK themed terrain set? Concepts are out and some "preview" shots are floating around if you hunt. Nothing more I can say on this.



Rule bits, these are very subject to revision, but not for much longer, to hit a Jan/Mar window codex needs to be tied up and sent to printers soon:

NFW lose the changing abilities based on rank of user. standardized to PA NFW is PW with special abilities vs Daemons, TA NFW is FW with same.

Some interesting Psychic abilities. just about all squads have psychic options. Heavy on they disabling side. Enemy psychers beware.

Not a lot of Mech. But quick to deploy.

Corrected Psycannon profile (updated 8-12-2010):
24" A3 AP3 S6, no invul saves, pinning test for units or models with psykers.
or 36" H1 AP4 S5 5" blast, no invul saves, no cover saves. (does not cause psyker pinning)

(updated 8-12-2010): Incinerator, no profile changes noted: S5 AP4 A1 template, no invul or cover saves.

(updated 8-12-2010): GK Annointed Armor: All GKs (TA, PA, AA, etc.) wear ornate armor which has been blessed and annointed to provide additional protection both physically and spiritually. Any GK may always Re-roll any failed armor, invul, or cover saves.


Army wide. Daemonic Infestation makes summoned demons less instable?

No allies from/to other Codii. new fodder units in codex. not same as guard units.

New options for Dreadnaughts including libby. psycannon arm. Purge weapon...large pie plate, special abilities include forcing instability test for daemons, including DoC armies, pinning in other armies.

Added 8-3-2010:
The basic GK marine profile looks very similar to a SM sergeant.

The box sets should all be plastic.

I've seen other people posting rumors of a penitent engine style walker, with a PAGK driver...I have absolutely no confirmation of such a beast. However, if GW wanted to avoid the cries of "GK dont have Dreads, it isnt fluffy" that could be a way...

While External Allies rules are gone by all accounts, it does not mean allies in the codex are gone. Inquisition forces ARE present, just not as dominant. And you will recognize others.

A conversation earlier centered around an ability named "Out the Heretic" which could be used against non-daemon forces causing one unit to "count as" daemons.

Some models "may" be on display at GDUK.


Added 8-3-2010:
I've seen "other" sites reporting I said nfw gave wound daemons on 2+. I never said that. Not sure where that is coming from.

From what I know right now nfw will be +2S across the board as now, but pagks will all count as pw, and tagks will all count as fw. Then on top of that, all nfw gain additional capabilities vs daemons. Plus unit leaders may have master crafted nfw...not sure if it's upgrade or standard.


Added 8-9-2010:
GK 2000pt AL from PT:

HQ
GM w Retinue
Named character

Elite
5-man TAGK squad + 2 spec weapons
Dread - unknown configuration

Troop
2x 5-man PAGK squad + 1 spec weapon + razorback
10-man ????? squad + chimera

Fast
Storm Raven

No Heavies



Added 8-9-2010:
The PT list posted was played against 2k of Orks including nobs, mek with kff, lots of boys in trukks, a BW and dread mob. It was C&C with DoW.

GKs held most in reserve.
PAGKS in RB came in turn 2 and moved to boys flank. 1 squad got tarpitted with boys, the other fought thru boys to take objective 1.
unknown unit had HQ attached, spent game trading shots with dread mob until TAGKS arrived to help.
TAGKs TP in turn 4 and later assaulted Dread mob. 4 standing at end of game.
The SR took out one trukk turn 3 and the bw turn 5. Dread and HQ w retinue arrived in it and assaulted Nob mob. wiping it out in 1 round. then started after other boys.

It was reported as a pretty one sided battle. GKs nearly unassailable. GK win with 1 objective and second contested in turn 6. supposedly orks were close to 4:1 outnumbering GKs

Gitzbitah wrote:Seems like a very interesting way to incorporate the Inquisition without too much of a regular army feel. The omission of platoons and Leman Russes will put the emphasis on specialized troops for a specific task. I thought that all of the rumors were pointing directly away from an INQ/GK dex. Ah well, as long as it does have some GKs I'll be satisfied.

Well, one way of looking at it might be GK's get even more expensive and awesome, and inquisition units are needed to make the army playable at low point levels In very early editions you were looking at infantry to get your troop count up and then a couple grey knights of absolutely absurd power and cost (like 300+ points each model) they may be making a return to that, though I have a feeling marketing would never let an army that small see the public, they need to sell MOAR TROOPS

Hopefully there is a variety of heroes or HQ choices that modify the types of army you can play giving you a codex with alot of depth, I have loved the idea since codex SM 5e and I love it still.

More importantly, this rumor makes it look like the Inq is self-sufficient in their own codex and does not have 'See Codex BLAH'.

That's a big deal for cross edition balance.

pretre wrote:More importantly, this rumor makes it look like the Inq is self-sufficient in their own codex and does not have 'See Codex BLAH'.

That's a big deal for cross edition balance.

That's actually a really good point.

If they do this to my Sisters codex I will cry.

I hope they leave all of the Inquisition aspects in the GK codex, because Sisters make a full army by themselves without adding in half-assed Guard elements.

Just need to expand the Sisters to meet fifth edition (something is definitely doable, even if it requires the creation of some new fluff).

wolfshadow wrote:

pretre wrote:More importantly, this rumor makes it look like the Inq is self-sufficient in their own codex and does not have 'See Codex BLAH'.

That's a big deal for cross edition balance.

That's actually a really good point.

And from the looks of it, they have added GK units and added inquisition units while only losing some of the lame extras (orbitals and Daemonhosts). I am pro-this. (Also notice that they are adding a lot of GK models, boxes and only a blister for Inquisition, meaning all those folks who were afraid they would 'lose' something to Inq don't have to worry.)

If they do this with Sisters, we will have New/More sisters units, vehicles and rules along with a parallel Inquisitor/Guard track that stands alone or mixes. Plus from the looks of it, at least 5 new boxes for the core list (in this case Sisters), which is awesome.

Pretty much best case scenario for all but the most stubborn.

So does that mean the options for a radical inquisitor are gone?

pretre wrote:
And from the looks of it, they have added GK units and added inquisition units while only losing some of the lame extras (orbitals and Daemonhosts). I am pro-this. (Also notice that they are adding a lot of GK models, boxes and only a blister for Inquisition, meaning all those folks who were afraid they would 'lose' something to Inq don't have to worry.)

If they do this with Sisters, we will have New/More sisters units, vehicles and rules along with a parallel Inquisitor/Guard track that stands alone or mixes. Plus from the looks of it, at least 5 new boxes for the core list (in this case Sisters), which is awesome.

Pretty much best case scenario for all but the most stubborn.

I don't know. I liked the concept, but the rules for the daemonhosts made me dislike them more than anything else. I do like that the inquisition still has a presence though.

Hmm. I'm happy to see that the army is getting updated, but I'm kind of terrified that one of the options is IG mech spam (although admittedly cut down). While i can see that they wanted to keep INQ elements in the army, it seems like all they've really done is just put in more inducted Guard, with an Inquisitor at the head. This strikes me as incredibly dull, although maybe this is what Demonhunter players actually wanted? It seems like if you wanted to play this kind of list you could easily do it with IG, replacing your command squad models with an Inquisitor and retinue.

But damn, did we really need more chimera mech? This sounds suspiciously like GW once again didn't have enough stuff to actually flesh out a Grey Knights codex so instead shoehorn4ed in a bunch or pre-existing models. I hope that's not the case, but from these early reports it kind of looks like it may be.

I also really, really hope SoB don't suffer the same fate. We've already had 2 unimaginative, mediocre Sisters books that did little to differentiate the army from other imperial forces. I'd hate to see a third.

Anyway, that all sounded pretty negative. My hopes are still high.

pretre wrote:If they do this with Sisters, we will have New/More sisters units, vehicles and rules along with a parallel Inquisitor/Guard track that stands alone or mixes. Plus from the looks of it, at least 5 new boxes for the core list (in this case Sisters), which is awesome.

And yet, those "new" units are going to not be Sisters units, and therefor the Sisters army is not going to be as large as a dedicated sisters of battle codex would be. Ergo, it is not what I want.

A Sisters of Battle army doesn't NEED conscripts. Sisters should have Frateris Militia instead. A Sisters of Battle army doesn't NEED Chimeras. The Immolator should be worked on being made unique to Sisters. A Sisters of Battle army doesn't NEED the manticore/deathstrike/orbital bombardment. They have their own mobile missile launcher (the Exorcist) and artillery could easily be variants of that. But if these "Inquisition" elements are included, that means the Sisters more likely than not won't be getting any of the truly Sisters units and upgrades, which means the codex is lower in quality than it should be.

jake wrote:
But damn, did we really need more chimera mech? This sounds suspiciously like GW once again didn't have enough stuff to actually flesh out a Grey Knights codex so instead shoehorn4ed in a bunch or pre-existing models. I hope that's not the case, but from these early reports it kind of looks like it may be..

Soon we will have mechcrons with monoliths as DT!

daedalus wrote:
I don't know. I liked the concept, but the rules for the daemonhosts made me dislike them more than anything else. I do like that the inquisition still has a presence though.

I have a feeling we may still see radicals in here. Daemonhosts are a bit problematic. Super cool and powerful in the fluff, but hard to rep on the table.

The reason I think Radicals are still possible is the note about 'If you take Inq Lord, you can take ST as troops'. Makes it sounds like GH are an option and not a requirement. So the book will be able to make GH, GH and Inq or straight Inq. Which is pretty sweet.

PS, it's Grey Knights... so GK. Not GH...

My planned force will be heavily GK centred. I like the idea of an Inquisitor for fluff and modelling reasons. If we get plastic stormies, this will mak me happy.

We shall see what happens.

jake wrote:While i can see that they wanted to keep INQ elements in the army, it seems like all they've really done is just put in more inducted Guard, with an Inquisitor at the head. This strikes me as incredibly dull, although maybe this is what Demonhunter players actually wanted?

That's what an inquisition army is. Inquisition with allies. Always has been. It is as dull as you make it.

But damn, did we really need more chimera mech? This sounds suspiciously like GW once again didn't have enough stuff to actually flesh out a Grey Knights codex so instead shoehorn4ed in a bunch or pre-existing models. I hope that's not the case, but from these early reports it kind of looks like it may be.

Except the inquisition entries are redux of guard and the GK has new entries, so they have gained. Inquisition will be an option, not a requirement.

I also really, really hope SoB don't suffer the same fate. We've already had 2 unimaginative, mediocre Sisters books that did little to differentiate the army from other imperial forces. I'd hate to see a third.

As for the unimaginative sisters books, that's your opinion. I happen to like the C:WH and think it is pretty flavorful, but I don't have unrealistic expectations of it. It was worlds better than Codex: Chapter Approved and added a lot to the army from C:SOB 2nd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wolfshadow wrote:My planned force will be heavily GK centred. I like the idea of an Inquisitor for fluff and modelling reasons. If we get plastic stormies, this will mak me happy.

Plastic stormies would make a lot of folks happy for multiple armies (conversion opportunities!). Inquisition has always been about fluff and creativity, so I hope they leave a degree of customization in them.

That's like saying "if I start off with six pennies, and someone gives me a few dollars, I'm worlds richer than I used to be!"... maybe you are, but you're still dirt ****ing poor.

wolfshadow wrote:My planned force will be heavily GK centred.

Likely as well, if I start a GK army it would probably just be Grey Knights, occasionally using conscripts simply because I already have models for them anyway.

One more thing, remember that Codex design is not Zero Sum. Just because something is added, doesn't mean something is lost.

pretre wrote:

daedalus wrote:
I don't know. I liked the concept, but the rules for the daemonhosts made me dislike them more than anything else. I do like that the inquisition still has a presence though.

I have a feeling we may still see radicals in here. Daemonhosts are a bit problematic. Super cool and powerful in the fluff, but hard to rep on the table.

The reason I think Radicals are still possible is the note about 'If you take Inq Lord, you can take ST as troops'. Makes it sounds like GH are an option and not a requirement. So the book will be able to make GH, GH and Inq or straight Inq. Which is pretty sweet.

And dont forget the 'counts as' conversion possibilities. The rumored walker has me salivating.

pretre wrote:One more thing, remember that Codex design is not Zero Sum. Just because something is added, doesn't mean something is lost.

In my view it is. The effort put into adding in Inquisition units, rules, and wargear is effort not being put into adding in Sisters units, rules, and wargear.

Same here, really, except slightly more justified because Grey Knights didn't have that much to begin with (Sisters, at least, had more than one unit in each non-troops slot...). But even then, work done on Inquisition stuff is not work being done on Grey Knights stuff. Whether or not DH/GK fans are happy about this, I dunno, but I would NOT want to see the same crap happen to my codex so I don't like seeing it here.

I think the expectation on all fronts should be that the SOB get pushed from what their "standard" is and toward the addition of more and more varied units; as usual, they'll want to sell more models while creating a dex that presents mulitple competitive builds.

This will be the way of it with the GK dex, if that's not clear from the rumors yet ... IST armies, conscript spam horde armies, Pure GK elite style armies should actually all be functional, and everything in between.

Much will rest on the shoulders of the Anointed Armor rumor - if it's true that their GK models get to re-roll basically all saves, that alone will ensure the quality of the dex - coupled/ w the option for cheap horde troops, you'll be able to field GK that don't simply die when you point a few heavier or spammier weapons in their over-pointsed direction.

Should be a fun time; all rumors here and elsewhere creeping out speak highly, and I'm a big fan of the GK fluff.

wolfshadow wrote:
And dont forget the 'counts as' conversion possibilities. The rumored walker has me salivating.

Great point! I can imagine using it in other SM armies just as a cool looking Ven Dread.

Also, I think with the current rumor base the GK/Inq book will be a lock for a Adeptus Mech CA force.

Inq Lord as AM Lord.
Inq ST or Conscripts as Skittari.
Valkyries fit perfect with high tech.
Use GK Terms or Walkers as Knights.
etc

One of the reasons I have always loved the Inquisition addition was the possibility for CA.

MVBrandt wrote:I think the expectation on all fronts should be that the SOB get pushed from what their "standard" is and toward the addition of more and more varied units; as usual, they'll want to sell more models while creating a dex that presents mulitple competitive builds.

This will be the way of it with the GK dex, if that's not clear from the rumors yet ... IST armies, conscript spam horde armies, Pure GK elite style armies should actually all be functional, and everything in between.

Much will rest on the shoulders of the Anointed Armor rumor - if it's true that their GK models get to re-roll basically all saves, that alone will ensure the quality of the dex - coupled/ w the option for cheap horde troops, you'll be able to field GK that don't simply die when you point a few heavier or spammier weapons in their over-pointsed direction.

Should be a fun time; all rumors here and elsewhere creeping out speak highly, and I'm a big fan of the GK fluff.

The GK rumours were what drew me back to the hobby after a 6 year absence. If the BA Plastics are any indicator the GKs should be spectacular.

MVBrandt wrote:Much will rest on the shoulders of the Anointed Armor rumor - if it's true that their GK models get to re-roll basically all saves, that alone will ensure the quality of the dex - coupled/ w the option for cheap horde troops, you'll be able to field GK that don't simply die when you point a few heavier or spammier weapons in their over-pointsed direction.

This!

3+ with Fortune for all my models? or 2+/5+? Or even worse, TH/SS for 2+/3+. That will definitely make the army dead 'ard and hopefully worth the points. It sounds like GK may be a grand experiment in this regard, can enough or the right Special Rules make up for huge points costs. In the past, the answer has been no for most armies, but I am cautiously optimistic.

pretre wrote:

wolfshadow wrote:
And dont forget the 'counts as' conversion possibilities. The rumored walker has me salivating.

Great point! I can imagine using it in other SM armies just as a cool looking Ven Dread.

Also, I think with the current rumor base the GK/Inq book will be a lock for a Adeptus Mech CA force.

Inq Lord as AM Lord.
Inq ST or Conscripts as Skittari.
Valkyries fit perfect with high tech.
Use GK Terms or Walkers as Knights.
etc

One of the reasons I have always loved the Inquisition addition was the possibility for CA.

LOS Rules might take that out of the equation. Its supposed to be 'big'.

Could someone fill me in on what IST stands for?

I'm not familiar with Inquisitors and such.

Inquisitorial Storm Troopers

Though we don't know much about their rules, one could probably anticipate given the early notice Elite slot placement that they'd be very similar to if not identical to the Storm Troopers available to the Imperial Guard in the same slot.

The option for Valkyrie dedicated transprots anywhere in the dex is doubly exciting for me, as I have 6 MRP valks sitting around just waiting to see the light of day again (haven't used the 9 valk army since converting 3 to Vendetta and going Strakenguard).

MVBrandt wrote:Inquisitorial Storm Troopers

Though we don't know much about their rules, one could probably anticipate given the early notice Elite slot placement that they'd be very similar to if not identical to the Storm Troopers available to the Imperial Guard in the same slot.

The option for Valkyrie dedicated transprots anywhere in the dex is doubly exciting for me, as I have 6 MRP valks sitting around just waiting to see the light of day again (haven't used the 9 valk army since converting 3 to Vendetta and going Strakenguard).

Based on these rumors, I am very hopeful for a fast reaction force, which fits the Inquisitor fluff very well. 4 or 5 squads ISTs using Deepstrike or Valks, Inq Lord in Chim or borrowed Valk, unit or two of Grey Knights and something heavy could make for a very fun army.

I think that ISTs might even be worth it at the current IG rules and cost with Valk rides. Spendy, but very flexible deployment with their pick 1 special rule thing and option to scout and drop for first turn shenanigans.

And if they are allowed to be both elite and troops, you could use all 9 of your valks. Now that would be awesome... "My whole army scout moves."