DakkaDakka - Warhammer 40000, Flames of War, Warmachine and Warhammer Forums
ForumGalleryArticlesVideoPodcastsHobby BlogsStore FinderPlayer FinderArmy PainterJoin Us!
Switch Theme:

Brush points hooking over.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Made in ie
Longtime Dakkanaut







For as long as I have been painting now, I have been having problems with the very fine tips on 0 and smaller brushes eventually hooking over to one side. It is a very slow process but no matter how well kept they are, how well cleaned and conditioned, it slowly but surely happens and renders them useless for detail. My brushes are never left uncovered and obviously are stored upright, it just feels like a losing battle to stop this happening.

I use mostly synthetics or synth mixes and am hoping pure sable has less of a problem with this but can't find any documentation. Anyone have any ideas about how to prevent it or if sable is indeed less likely to eventually be hooked over?


   
Advert


Login or Register to make this and other promotional elements disappear from your dakka browsing.
Made in us
Lurking Gaunt





philadelphia

I use sable and have never had any problems with it. I do replace all my brushes about every 6 months though.

i wish the sun wouldnt shine  
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran





i always repoint my brushes inbetween my lips after painting with them always keeps the hairs straight.
   
Made in nl
Cog in the Machine





Netherlands, Delft or Breda

I've had this problem too, but these days my brushes hold out for very long times.

I recently started to use Winsor & Newton 7 Series. I don't know if they last that long simply because they are better quality or because I avoid having the tip touch the bottom of the water container when cleaning.

   
Made in gb
[ADMIN]
Da Big Mek






London, UK

I've never had a problem since switching to kolinksy sable. Happened all the time with the synth brushes though.

   
Made in ie
Longtime Dakkanaut







W&N s7 is sable too I think, so this seems to be a pretty definitive result. I will be getting my hands on a set for Christmas, so hopefully that will help out.

Brushes I bought only 2 months ago are already reaching pointlessness, so thats the last time I go for synthetic, it feels like too much of a waste :(

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/11/05 11:33:13


   
Made in gb
[ADMIN]
Da Big Mek






London, UK

My w&n series 7 are about 4 years old now and constantly used with no problems.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Nottingham, UK

I'm only *just* thinking about replacing my (size 1) S7. I've used it every day for nearly a year, and it's only just starting to splay a little. Not a massive problem as I mainly use it on larger areas, but still - never had a brush last so well. You won't regret getting them.

I accept commissions - PM / msn / yahoo for information.
See my CMON gallery - http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/winterdyne
See our Commission Blog - http://blog.winterdyne.co.uk/
Follow us on facebook - https://www.facebook.com/winterdynecommissionmodelling/
 
   
Made in us
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Arlington TX, but want to be back in Seattle WA

Yup, have the same problem. I have been able correct it though with some good brush cleaner, and then some brush shaper...I let the brush set overnight, then it seems corrected by the next day.

4250 points of Blood Angels goodness, sweet and silky W12-L6-D4
1000 points of Teil-Shan (my own scheme) Eldar Craftworld in progress
800 points of unassembled Urban themed Imperial Guard
650 points of my do-it-yourself Tempest Guard
675 points of Commoraghs finest!

The Dude - "Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man."

Lord Helmet - "I bet she gives great helmet."

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
I see you...






Sterling, Virginia

Hey Iffy. Synthetics always curl at the ends eventually, just part of their nature. If you get good Kolinsky Sable (not just "golden sable" or whatever other than that the store calls sable) you won't have the problem. You will be dropping ~14$ US on a brush, but it will last damned near forever if you clean it well. I have been using my main brush for about 5 years now and it is actually a little nicer than it was when I bought it, having trimmed out some stray hairs. Considering it is my go to brush for everything, I am terribly happy.

Here's a really good article about choosing brushes and caring for them:
http://www.paintrix-miniatures.com/articles.php?&art=8&page=1

This one is pretty good too:
http://www.coolminiornot.com/article/aid/35

That cleaning stuff "The Masters Brush Cleaner" (kinda looks like a hocky puck or shoe polish) is really excellent, and I keep a bottle of brush cleaner on my paint desk to periodically wash when the paint is getting sucked up to the ferrule and the regular water isn't getting it out. The Hockey Puck of Cleanliness is worth every penny and lasts pretty much forever too, and just is amazing at keeping brushes nice and conditioned, even when they have old caked on crap in them.


Woad on Celts blog
"I'm sick of auto-penetrating attacks against my behind!" - Kungfuhustler 
   
Made in ie
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






It happens mine too :-(
   
Made in ie
Longtime Dakkanaut







Aye I have tried brush cleaner and shaper, but I guess the real problem is you can't condition plastic. Once the tip bends unbending such a tiny amount of bristle seems near impossible.
I can keep them perfectly clean but nothing I have used has manage to uncurve them.

That cleaning stuff "The Masters Brush Cleaner" (kinda looks like a hocky puck or shoe polish) is really excellent, and I keep a bottle of brush cleaner on my paint desk to periodically wash when the paint is getting sucked up to the ferrule and the regular water isn't getting it out. The Hockey Puck of Cleanliness is worth every penny and lasts pretty much forever too, and just is amazing at keeping brushes nice and conditioned, even when they have old caked on crap in them.


I have this, it is amazing. I use really cheap hoghair paintbrushes for drybrushing ( 50 cent in discount shops ) and it returned a 4 year old brush with literally only a millimeter or so of non caked bristles at the end to brand new working order. I now worship this stuff I am heading into town today so am going to check the local store for series 7's. Their site has them at €9/€10 euro each so that sounds around the same price. I would prefer to choose mine rather than have them delivered though as I would want to check for stray bristles or damage.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/11/05 13:37:35


   
Made in gb
[ADMIN]
Da Big Mek






London, UK

My painting is divided into pre-w&ns7 painting and post-w&ns7 painting. Before using them I never realised how much I was fighting my paintbrush to get stuff done. After switching to them everything became significantly more pleasurable, especially fine line work which is almost trivial now. For reference, the kill rings on the barrel of this pak40:


are about 1/3mm each and I did that with a size 0 series 7.

   
Made in us
[DCM]
I see you...






Sterling, Virginia

Yea, plastic is plastic, and there isn't much you can do with it. Fine for large stuff, but detail the difference is really amazing. Like Legoburner said, the difference in freehand ease and small detailing is just shocking.

Definitely pick your own too. Sounds crazy, but these will be with you for so long, the care in choosing them is like a new pet or boyfriend. As a bonus, they are less stress inducing than either


Woad on Celts blog
"I'm sick of auto-penetrating attacks against my behind!" - Kungfuhustler 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Poster boy for the pointless reality TV star generation.






Somewhere in southern England.

bullyboy76 wrote:i always repoint my brushes inbetween my lips after painting with them always keeps the hairs straight.


Me too.

It seems to have become impossible to discuss any aspect of GW nowadays without GW being criticised and people leaping to GW's defence on the grounds that it has become impossible to discuss any aspect of GW nowadays without people leaping to criticise them.

Forum posting guidelines, please learn them! You will be tested. 
   
Made in ca
Plaguelord Titan Princeps of Nurgle






I've adapted to using the hooked ends. makes getting into tight places easier.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in ie
Longtime Dakkanaut







Well that was just plain strange.

Quick search showed that my local art supply store in Cork has them in stock, which was great as I needed to walk with some friends nearby anyway. We went in and checked the rather large brush selection but saw only what I remembered them stocking, which was synth hoghair and sable synth mixes only for W&N.

I walked up to the counter and asked if they had any kolinski series 7's, and the lady looked at me wide eyed and leaned over to whisper " Do you mean Sable brushes?" She then took me around to the back of the storeroom behind the actual store and took a wooden box out from under the counter which was locked at the top and had no glass. She opened it and it was a little like a sigar case, the bottom hinged up and there were brushes arranged by size, so I found what I wanted which was a 0, 00, and 000 with perfect tips. She packed them for me before bringing them to the main store counter to ring them up.

Why the secrecy? These were hidden in a locked old wooden box in the storeroom, you had to actually ask for them to buy them, they weren't advertised at all. My friends were equally confused and our first guess that maybe it was to do with them being made out of fur cannot be right, as there were sable/synth mixes on display. I got them in the end but now I feel like I have joined some kind of cult or done something illegal o.o

   
Made in us
Nigel Stillman





Seattle WA

It’s a well known fact in artistic circles that every Sable brush is made from the eyelashes of virgin maidens who were sacrificed on a midsummer’s eve under a full moon while the spirits of seven great artists are called from the neither world to infuse each bristle of every brush with the seven sins of humanity (Lust, greed, envy, pride, laziness, gluttony, and... the other one).


See more on Know Your Meme 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






I just trim mine when they become too hooked, and adjust my painting style accordingly. When the brushes get too short, they replace the "muddle" brushes I use for stippling and blending. Eventually, I just throw them out. Buy cheap, be flexible, and get the job done.

Just because anyone agrees with anyone, doesn't mean they are correct. Beware the thin line between what is "Correct" and what is "Popular." 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Resident Ethicist




Champaign, IL

all brushes are mortal.

Also, every now and again I buy a synthetic brush, and love how easily they clean and repoint. Then, when the brush winds up horribly frayed after a few months, and that GW "detail" bush I bought three years ago is still hanging in there (now as a "super fine detail brush"), I invariably go back to the hairs.


Your one-stop website for batreps, articles, and assorted goodies about the men of Folera: Foleran First Imperial Archives. Read Dakka's favorite narrative battle report series The Hand of the King. Also, check out my commission work, and my terrain.

Abstract Principles of 40k: Why game imbalance and list tailoring is good, and why tournaments are an absurd farce.

Ever wonder what happened to Melchoir after the Hand of the King? Watch the story unfold in "The Geomides Affair". Up to chapter 73 complete!
 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch






Odenton, MD

Get some Blue tack and make a strip on the edge of a shelf on your desk. Then stick your brushes to them point side down after you wash and shape them. Storing them wet and point up causes gravity to give them a hook shape.
   
Made in us







Madison, WI

I was just noticing the same problem with my two most used brushes. I haven't tried the brush shaper... I do have a couple of W&M brushes that I picked up but I've been hoarding them until my "lesser" brushes give out. Guess it's about time to break them out!

   
Made in us
[DCM]
I see you...






Sterling, Virginia

Hehe the Cult of the Red Sable is sort of weird... I wonder if that is a Euro thing, or if they just are worried people will steal them, being small and slightly expensive.

As to why the nylon curls, I think it has a lot more to do with the damp and friction than gravity... it isn't as though the entire brush flops over at an angle, usually just the last 5th of the bristles. Especially considering that most professionals suggest storing brushes tip up.


Woad on Celts blog
"I'm sick of auto-penetrating attacks against my behind!" - Kungfuhustler 
   
Made in gb
[ADMIN]
Da Big Mek






London, UK

Did you try them out yet? I'm always keen to hear first impressions after I recommend them so highly.

   
Made in ie
Longtime Dakkanaut







They were fabulous. Size 0 tip is barely visable with the naked eye, and the way they hold paint is insane. The swell in the belly but hold the point, it is like using a fountain pen.

After using the size 0 for a while I weeded out a grand total of 2 non perfect hairs, and just carefully clipped them back. Really happy with them and won't be going back to synthetic, even after just a day of experiencing them. Still waiting to see if they carry some kind of ancient curse though

   
Made in fi
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Finland

Well I think the simpliest solution is to just use bigger brushes.. Personally I find all small brushes almost useless. It is all about the tip and bigger brush can still be very accurate and it holds much more paint than those small ones. With small brush you need to take more paint every second and when you are really concentrating painting some small details paint dries easily to tip of small brush..

So I think just get used to using little bit bigger brushes and your life will get much easier..

And buy some master's brush cleaner. You can clean your brushes with it and they will be like new. And after painting just apply it little bit to the tip of brush and just shape the tip and let it dry. It will hold the shape of the brush nicely and your brush will stay like new many times longer.

http://taistelutarvike.fi/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=134_250&products_id=1616

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/11/06 21:49:37


   
Made in ph
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot





My detailing brushes are sable, and I do replace them every now and then (and yes, I clean and point them every goddamned time and they still bend). My fine detailing brush, however, is a very pointed (and small) Chinese brush which was bought for 18 pesos (and the current exchange for pesos to dollar is 45 to 1. You do the math on how cheap that is). It's seven-year old and still working like how it's supposed to work. I already hoarded extras once I figured out it does the job well, and I have used the extras just to give them a spin but I still use the old one. Cheap, reliable, can hold a whole lot more paint and... cheap. What more can you ask for?

I don't know if they're available in Ireland, though. Try looking for Chinese brushes that are as big as detail 0 or 00, or maybe smaller. They come in different sizes, and I don't think there's a table on what sizes are available.


The more expensive counterpart is use brushes that are made of horse hair. They last longer. Had one that lasted me 5 years until I forgot to clean it and the acrylic caked.

Violence is not the answer, but it's always a good guess. 
   
Made in jp
Hacking Shang Jí






So lately my detail brush has been hooking and in general I felt like I've been struggling to just do basic paintjobs... everything has just felt sloppy lately. So inspired by this thread I went out and bought a Windsor & Newton Series 7 00 and it's been fantastic. I might finally be able to get a unit done. Thanks everybody!

"White Lions: They're Better Than Cancer!" is not exactly a compelling marketing slogan. - AlexHolker 
   
Made in gb
[ADMIN]
Da Big Mek






London, UK

I'd recommend a size 1 w&n series 7 brush highly as well. The fine point coupled with the paint capacity means that it can be used for a very large range of techniques. Size 1 and size 0 are the ones I use about 98% of the time.

Glad to see people are enjoying them and welcome to the cult of the kolinksy sable.

   
Made in gb
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






Might have to invest in some W&N brushes, atm im using the standard citadel brushes and they are good. The only problem i find is that they dont produce a fine enough brush even the fine detail brush is too big in some cases.

Sadly I have no idea where to find a shop in Glasgow, Scotland that would sell them or how much it would be to get them.

EDIT: As for synthetic brushes I tried to use one when i had bits left over after my superglue ruined my old citadel brushes of 3 years ago but they sucked badly and havnt used synthetic for painting since, they are my PVA brushes now

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/11/07 17:08:03


When the rich rage war it's the poor who die

Armies I want:Lizardmen, Warriors Of Chaos, Dark Eldar, Tau(I really shouldnt have sold em)

Armies I may get: Dark Angels, Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts

DC:90SGM-B--I+Pw40k03++D+A++/eWD-R+T(Pic)DM+

 
   
 
Forum Index » Painting & Modeling
Go to:   

Dakka 5.42 - Privacy Policy - Legal Stuff - Forum Rules