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Made in ph
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Quick question: is there a difference between old Citadel inks and Citadel washes? I always assumed they're the same. And if they are, what would be the equivalent of brown ink? Devlan mud or Gryphonne Sepia? Thanks in advance.

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There is a difference but I am not entirely au fait with the technical differences. I am sure someone will be able to fill you in.

The new GW washes are much more watered down and fluid than the old style inks. There is enough of a difference that the old inks are still in demand despite being out of production so I guess some people still have a use for them. I could never really get the hang of using them to be honest which is why my set lie unused.

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Journeyman Inquisitor with Visions of the Warp





Yeah filbert is right the old inks are more clingy as well in my oppion , and more glossy , the new washes are easier to use i find, although they dont go as far!
   
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Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine





NorCal

They are completely different from the inks. Make shading a snap, and look really really good to boot. Red/Bronze using Devlan Mud wash is super easy and looks fantastic.

There is alot more to them than just washing a model once you've finished painting it.

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Made in ph
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot





Oh okay, so there is a difference in consistency. How about the color--would a model washed with brown ink would look the same as something washed with devlan mud in terms of color?

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Brisbane, Australia

Leave that stuff for your skin bro, it looks good for a week then literaly the pigment falls out.

 
   
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader





Inks and washes are entirely different. Namely based on the solvent used in them.

Think of the ink like the ink in your pen, although a little more liquid. You will generally need to thin inks even further (using some form of white spirit or alcohol) to do washes, where as the acrylic washes they now produce can be used directly from the pot.

As for the colouration, Devlan mud will be the closest option to the old Brown ink, but even then it won't be perfect. If you are after the old inks, check out Coat D' Arms they are the old manufacturers of the old Citadel products and they still do produce the ink line. Alternatively Vallejo do do a range of inks as well.

 
   
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NorCal

starsdawn wrote:Oh okay, so there is a difference in consistency. How about the color--would a model washed with brown ink would look the same as something washed with devlan mud in terms of color?


No, not even close.

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Well, as long as it's close enough, since it would just be for the shadows, then I'm fine with it.

But then again, I would've preferred it if GW hasn't discontinued the inks, and market the washes as another line.

Edit: So... not really close? Darn. Can anyone produce comparison pics, because my google-fu is failing me right now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/11/17 10:46:59


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Master Sergeant





Edmonton

You can still find inks with coat d'arms line. I believe there is even a name matching guide for citadel to coat d'arms. iirc, they are the same as the old inks
   
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Problem is with shipping and handling. Post office here is gak, that's why I just trust for Neutral Grounds to provide for us, and I think they only ship GW paint.

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NorCal

starsdawn wrote:Well, as long as it's close enough, since it would just be for the shadows, then I'm fine with it.

But then again, I would've preferred it if GW hasn't discontinued the inks, and market the washes as another line.

Edit: So... not really close? Darn. Can anyone produce comparison pics, because my google-fu is failing me right now.


Pony up $4 and give the wash a try. You won't regret it.

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Vallejo also do copies of the GW inks in their 'Game Color' range.
They do one called 'Brown' or 'Marron' 72092.
I don't know if you'll find them any easier to track down?

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Maelstromgames carry Coat D' Arms and have free shipping on all orders over 10 pound. So provided you don't have any great import tax in your country you should be pretty sweet to pick em up.

 
   
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I have both the OOP brown ink and the new washes. I have found relatively little use for the ink, but that's probably because the washes were available to me when I first started, and they are a far easier to use product.

The consistency of both is about the same. The ink is substantially more pigmented, for lack of a better work, and will be much, much darker. It will also be a lot shinier. The ink will need to be watered down before using, and regardless of whether or not that is done, the surface tension of the ink tends to have it dry weirdly in my experience, I believe the washes contain a surfactant to prevent this. The only luck I have with inks consistently is on gold where I want a dark appearance: I base in shining gold, add some thinned ink carefully, and then drybrush with shining gold again and then whatever the brighter colored gold is, I forget the name (burnished gold, maybe?).

Devlan Mud is vastly more useful, bottom line.

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There is a difference. The coverage of the new washes is nothing like the old inks. The inks have more pigment. I bought badab black because I thought it would replace black ink....the 2 are not even close

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But oh how nice is it to use the washes? (Memories of spilling the black ink all over the desk, clothes, floor, models, and it never, ever washes out.)

On a similar note, I need the Red Ink that Citadel used to make. I used up most of my pot on rock terrain, and I'm staring at what's left in the bottom, then looking at my bases (which are all done red ink) and sobbing inside.

Is the Coat d'Arms or Vallejo red ink a better alternative?

As for ink versus washes, the inks are still useful when you want a REALLY dark colour in the creases and little colour in the raised areas. This makes them really good for things like chainmail, dryad bark, etc. Washes are better for getting a fine gradient. This makes them better for shading in general, especially cloaks, armour, and as a general army-wide wash to make it more gritty (thank you, Devlan Mud!)

Inks also have better true colours. Red ink always washes my chainmail or white with a reddish colour. I tried a red wash, and ended up with pink.

   
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I have a full and unused set of all the old inks. I got a mega paint set shortly before they stopped doing the inks.

Never liked the inks and always sucked at doing washes with them.

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I have not used used these paints but they are probably the same but cheaper to GW paints.
   
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Foxtale wrote:Is the Coat d'Arms or Vallejo red ink a better alternative?

A better alternative to something that no longer exists?.....?.....?
But yeah, in my experience the Vallejo Inks are identical. Just squeeze the bottle into your nearly empty pot and PRESTO new GW ink!

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@ Foxtale

Coat D' arms products ARE the old inks.

 
   
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Alex Kolodotschko wrote:A better alternative to something that no longer exists?.....?.....?
But yeah, in my experience the Vallejo Inks are identical. Just squeeze the bottle into your nearly empty pot and PRESTO new GW ink!

Haha, my bad. I meant which is the better replacement. I'm just worried about buying a new ink and finding out it looks different. Since it's going to be on all of my models' bases, I don't want it to look even a bit different. And inks are tricky.

I guess Coat d'Arms is cheaper, gives you more, and is exactly the same formula. Thanks, Winter!

   
 
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