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40k tournament, Seaham, UK, Feb 25 & 26 2012. 1750 & 2250pts  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

redkeyboard wrote:Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in a Movement
phase in which it has moved flat out, what happens to
any embarked models, as passengers may not
disembark from a vehicle that has moved flat out in
that Movement phase? (p70)
A: They are removed as casualties.

That could also come into play. this says they are removed as caualties. This says in its own movements phase. But the way I see it as the last time they were allowed to move they moved flatout they cannot disembark from it as they moved flatout without another movement being preformed.[/quote

Scott, read up, EYIG already posted this. Get with it man.

I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
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Made in gb
Implacable Skitarii




North East of England

RatWolf wrote:Copy and paste the FAQ section that your running your side from.

I.e, you say they dont die? Show us where it says that?


The Turn
Q: What is meant when the term ‘turn’ is used? (p9)
A: Whenever the word turn is used it means player
turn
. Otherwise it will clearly state game turn. In a
complete game turn both players get a player turn.
Hence one game turn will comprise two player turns.

Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in a Movement
phase
in which it has moved flat out, what happens to
any embarked models, as passengers may not
disembark from a vehicle that has moved flat out in
that Movement phase? (p70)

A: They are removed as casualties.

and in the BRB when talking about flatout Transports it says turn which we know from the FAQ is player turn. Somebody else will have to find the page number.

A wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn.

My interpretation of unreasonable force falls somewhere between
shooting them with a gun that fires werewolves, and dropping a volcano on them.

 
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

Hesh_Tank_On wrote:
RatWolf wrote:Copy and paste the FAQ section that your running your side from.

I.e, you say they dont die? Show us where it says that?


The Turn
Q: What is meant when the term ‘turn’ is used? (p9)
A: Whenever the word turn is used it means player
turn
. Otherwise it will clearly state game turn. In a
complete game turn both players get a player turn.
Hence one game turn will comprise two player turns.

Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in a Movement
phase
in which it has moved flat out, what happens to
any embarked models, as passengers may not
disembark from a vehicle that has moved flat out in
that Movement phase? (p70)

A: They are removed as casualties.

and in the BRB when talking about flatout Transports it says turn which we know from the FAQ is player turn. Somebody else will have to find the page number.


To be fair, the second quote doesn't mention ''Turns'', at all, but, the thing is Hesh, does a Scout Move, count towards the first two turns?

I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Implacable Skitarii




North East of England

Only the pink bit is new. It used to say "turn" but people were still confused.

Old FAQ

Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in the same turn as it
moved flat out what happens to any embarked models? (p70)
A: They are removed as casualties.


The fact is that the opponents shooting phase is neither movement phase or player turn for the Transports owner. There are numerous threads on here that explain it better rather than continue here

But if you must could you quote the rule in full about the passengers dying as I dont have my rulebook handy I am sure it says turn not game turn

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/17 22:11:49


A wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn.

My interpretation of unreasonable force falls somewhere between
shooting them with a gun that fires werewolves, and dropping a volcano on them.

 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




UK

Why are we talking about turns? It's irrelevant - the key part of the question in the FAQ is "destroyed in a Movement Phase". Anything killed by shooting is not killed in a Movement Phase, it's killed in the shooting phase. The only ways a skimmer can be killed in a movement phase after it has gone flat out is by death or glory attacks, or by immobilising itself in terrain.

EYIG
   
Made in gb
Implacable Skitarii




North East of England

Embrace your inner geek wrote:Why are we talking about turns? It's irrelevant - the key part of the question in the FAQ is "destroyed in a Movement Phase". Anything killed by shooting is not killed in a Movement Phase, it's killed in the shooting phase. The only ways a skimmer can be killed in a movement phase after it has gone flat out is by death or glory attacks, or by immobilising itself in terrain.

EYIG


It is relevant as the basis for the argument that the passemgers were destroyed comes from the BRB saying that if you move flatout in that turn you may not disembark. At the time "turn" could be argued game turn until the FAQ came out, and the new movement phase FAQ just makes it clearer.

Just noticed it helps a lot now that its gone to phase not turn. a friendly fire template scatter doesnt cause the passenger damage either now

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/01/18 00:24:51


A wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn.

My interpretation of unreasonable force falls somewhere between
shooting them with a gun that fires werewolves, and dropping a volcano on them.

 
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

Hey, im just being Devils Advocate of sorts.

My skimmers dont transport people.

My honour is gained fighting on foot! (Except my Land Speeders, but we dont speak of them)

I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in jp
Fresh-Faced New User




When do the armylists have to be in? Because due to not being back in the UK I can't actually playtest lists until the week before the tournament
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

The wednesday or something along them lines.

I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Implacable Skitarii




North East of England

RatWolf wrote:Hey, im just being Devils Advocate of sorts.


Liar

your just cause the MODs took the hump with you on the Lash thread

A wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn.

My interpretation of unreasonable force falls somewhere between
shooting them with a gun that fires werewolves, and dropping a volcano on them.

 
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

Hesh_Tank_On wrote:
RatWolf wrote:Hey, im just being Devils Advocate of sorts.


Liar

your just cause the MODs took the hump with you on the Lash thread


irrelivant, i was right, they were wrong. But im not going to dwell upon it.

''Darth Revan - Glory is of no use to the dead.''

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/17 22:36:31


I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Steadfast Grey Hunter




North east England

Right Hesh turn is what we have discussed and if you read FAQ a scout move counts as a move in the preceding turn, now if we gonna carry on about this fine we will use the FAQ to the letter which now means the more important rule comes into play and the turn is the more basic rule and fundamental rule
And if you want to play to the letter then we will

As you can tell I'm sick to death of this subject and frankly it's ruining what I started doing as something fun I enjoy
All I do is rule on grey areas and the game is full of them and it will annoy people but for god sake it's a game of toy soldiers it ain't life and death, I will revisit my rule book and the new FAQ and I will be doing my upmost to make sure they are adhered to no matter who it annoys and if the rule applies to skimmers it must apply to all other transports and as the phrase turn and game turn is what you meaning I will make sure game turn is mentioned alot as it isn't in most rules
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

FAQ States -


Q: During the first turn of the game does a Scout move
count as the preceding Movement phase when working
out any saves from shooting, for example the 3+ cover
save from turbo-boosting, and the to hit rolls in
combat against vehicles? (p76)
A: Yes

Rulebook (p71) says -

''...so a skimmer that is immobilised immediately crashes and is destroyed (wrecked)if it moved flat out in its last turn. If it moved slower it suffers an immobilised result as normal.''

So Hesh, the only pieces of evidence you've put forward that supports your claim, is if it gets immobilised in the same turn it moves Flat Out. Although the FAQ quote says ''preceding Movement Phase'', but the rulebook talks about ''last turn'', we're all smart people. And im sure we can see that both of these quotes work together.

So from the way im reading things, You go Flat Out in your Scouts Phase, the 4+ Cover Save and the possibility of your Skimmer smashing into the ground carry on til your next movement phase. so if your opponent gets turn one, they can fire, get a lot of immobilised and as we understand the rules, the passengers then become pork scratchings.

I cant see how it can be put any simpler?

Granted, there is no rules that states, that if the Transport goes down sometime outside of your own turn, the passengers die. Im sure we can agree, if they would die in your turn due to Dangerous Terrain while the Flat Out effects are in play, they will die in your opponents turn while the effects are in play.

Please feel free to point out any rule mistakes ive made, but i think you'll find, its relatively airtight.


I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel





*bursts though room with axe* HEEEAAARRRS JHONNY!!!

RatWolf wrote:
Hesh_Tank_On wrote:
RatWolf wrote:Hey, im just being Devils Advocate of sorts.


Liar

your just cause the MODs took the hump with you on the Lash thread


irrelivant, i was right, they were wrong. But im not going to dwell upon it.

''Darth Revan - Glory is of no use to the dead.''


Ok so you have proven that your right but, do you have to re-open a seald wound just to make sure that your always right, so I shall repeat LEAVE IT IN THE PAST.

Not dwelling Its just that is uncalled for.

Now I want to know who is first for a good smacking with my orks at the tourney ...
Also I just bought see through green dice last weekend and had a few test rolls for 'em...
They roll high ...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/18 12:32:34


The Souless (40k): 5000pts
Klan Zaw Klan: 4000pts
Malifaux: Arcanists: 50-60 SS
 Grey Templar wrote:

Orks don't hate, they just love. Love to fight everyone.
 
   
Made in gb
Steadfast Grey Hunter




North east England

So happy why bring it up in here if you remember it was me who said you have to hit with it so wanna discuss it with me !
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel





*bursts though room with axe* HEEEAAARRRS JHONNY!!!

well no I just prefere to leave it in the past...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/18 12:34:29


The Souless (40k): 5000pts
Klan Zaw Klan: 4000pts
Malifaux: Arcanists: 50-60 SS
 Grey Templar wrote:

Orks don't hate, they just love. Love to fight everyone.
 
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

Okay, so, I posted that, then I text you and we got to talking, we settled, i was right its in the past. case closed, that was yesterday.

so today, you decided to bring it back up? then you say you want to leave it in the past? I dont think so mr.contradiction!!!!

I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel





*bursts though room with axe* HEEEAAARRRS JHONNY!!!

RatWolf wrote:Okay, so, I posted that, then I text you and we got to talking, we settled, i was right its in the past. case closed, that was yesterday.so today, you decided to bring it back up? then you say you want to leave it in the past? I dont think so mr.contradiction!!!!


Agreed moving on we dont want a heated thread now do we.

Now I want to know who is first victim with me orks at the tourney ...

The Souless (40k): 5000pts
Klan Zaw Klan: 4000pts
Malifaux: Arcanists: 50-60 SS
 Grey Templar wrote:

Orks don't hate, they just love. Love to fight everyone.
 
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

Jacob, just, SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHH.

I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Implacable Skitarii




North East of England

RatWolf wrote:FAQ States -


Q: During the first turn of the game does a Scout move
count as the preceding Movement phase when working
out any saves from shooting, for example the 3+ cover
save from turbo-boosting, and the to hit rolls in
combat against vehicles? (p76)
A: Yes

Rulebook (p71) says -


How about you posting it in YMDC for a definitive answer instead of trying to cause more friction between me and Wittman.

"What happens to the passengers of a transport vehicle moving flatout when that transport vehicle is destroyed?" seems the least ambigous

Or simpler let the TO make a ruling on here and we all stick to it as that was the point of the topic.

It was originally brought up by me to remind EYIG the way its played at GOW before his Deathstars ploughed into the ground.

A wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn.

My interpretation of unreasonable force falls somewhere between
shooting them with a gun that fires werewolves, and dropping a volcano on them.

 
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

Hesh_Tank_On wrote:
RatWolf wrote:FAQ States -


Q: During the first turn of the game does a Scout move
count as the preceding Movement phase when working
out any saves from shooting, for example the 3+ cover
save from turbo-boosting, and the to hit rolls in
combat against vehicles? (p76)
A: Yes

Rulebook (p71) says -


How about you posting it in YMDC for a definitive answer instead of trying to cause more friction between me and Wittman.

"What happens to the passengers of a transport vehicle moving flatout when that transport vehicle is destroyed?" seems the least ambigous

Or simpler let the TO make a ruling on here and we all stick to it as that was the point of the topic.

It was originally brought up by me to remind EYIG the way its played at GOW before his Deathstars ploughed into the ground.


Excuse me, but i'm not TRYING to cause friction between anyone.

If you would like me to post on YMDC, I will. but if you'd rather have the TO make a ruling, and we all stick with it, without any complaining afterwards, that would be the mature thing to do.

Personally i'd prefer the TO ruling.

The quicker we can get this settled the quicker we can all remember its a game we play for fun.

I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Implacable Skitarii




North East of England

RatWolf wrote:[
Personally i'd prefer the TO ruling.


Stick it on YMDC, the result is just bragging rights for me or you but don't link it to here.

TO's ruling is a completly seperate thing and I will state I am happy either way the decision falls and I had no problem with Wittmans interpretation of the rule , it was the way my opponent sprung it on me in-game

A wise man never plays leapfrog with a Unicorn.

My interpretation of unreasonable force falls somewhere between
shooting them with a gun that fires werewolves, and dropping a volcano on them.

 
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

What? I dont want bragging rights. I can sleep soundly at night no matter what the ''official'' ruling is.

I just want to walk into the tournament knowing that no one is going to pull out a sneak attack ''hidden rule''.

If everyone is happy just accepting the TO ruling, then there no need to get YMDC involved.

I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Shunting Grey Knight Interceptor




Newcastle

Tbf, Hesh never said that the tank is not wrecked in the following movement phase. It most definitely is. The FAQ answers the question of what happens to the passengers in that situation, which is they follow the normal rules for their transport being wrecked. The passengers are only removed when the skimmer is immobilised or wrecked in its' own turn. The rules set is a permissive one, so things only happen when they are specifically said to in the rules, which is why the FAQ clarifies this situation without specifically saying the passengers do not die.

I feel there were some crossed wires here since you were both talking about different things.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/18 18:40:49




http://apostatesanonymous.blogspot.com/ - tactics and army lists with the occasional hobby article. 
   
Made in gb
Loyal Necron Lychguard





Whatever happens, I don't mind

 Pilau Rice wrote:
I meant in the typical Chaos ritual, you know blood, virgins .. Justin Bieber Albums. I can imagine after many years of frustration and constant burnt food, Jerold the Chef calls his cooker one to many bad names and it subsequently removes itself from the wall and fries him.


Experience is something you get just after you need it
The Narkos Dynasty: 5k 
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

bedeporter wrote:Tbf, Hesh never said that the tank is not wrecked in the following movement phase. It most definitely is. The FAQ answers the question of what happens to the passengers in that situation, which is they follow the normal rules for their transport being wrecked. The passengers are only removed when the skimmer is immobilised or wrecked in its' own turn. The rules set is a permissive one, so things only happen when they are specifically said to in the rules, which is why the FAQ clarifies this situation without specifically saying the passengers do not die.

I feel there were some crossed wires here since you were both talking about different things.


Yeah but there is no rules for it being wrecked outside of the movement phase. So ...
But, if we're gonna agree on a ruling should the ruling be, the Vehicles Wrecks, the Passengers are fine?

I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Shunting Grey Knight Interceptor




Newcastle

There are, the normal vehicle rules. We all know the rules for when that happens. Because it doesn't say that the passengers die in that situation, then they don't. The only special rules for skimmers are the ones we have previously discussed, so they are the only ones we follow.

Sean has to decide on the rules, we can only present clear arguments for and against certain rules.



http://apostatesanonymous.blogspot.com/ - tactics and army lists with the occasional hobby article. 
   
Made in gb
Druid Warder





North-East England

Right whatever.

Honestly, no one gives a flying monkey doodle anymore.

I'm neither Angel nor a Demonspawn. 
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel





*bursts though room with axe* HEEEAAARRRS JHONNY!!!

Anyway anyone coming this weekend Ima gonna have a bash at tau (Racett) and newcrons (Ihatenids) also nid jacks coming anyone wanna squish his bugs?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/01/19 15:32:59


The Souless (40k): 5000pts
Klan Zaw Klan: 4000pts
Malifaux: Arcanists: 50-60 SS
 Grey Templar wrote:

Orks don't hate, they just love. Love to fight everyone.
 
   
Made in gb
Loyal Necron Lychguard





ill have a go at squishing bugs if im allowed to come, but considering my phone has died, i probably wont be.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/01/19 22:12:01


 Pilau Rice wrote:
I meant in the typical Chaos ritual, you know blood, virgins .. Justin Bieber Albums. I can imagine after many years of frustration and constant burnt food, Jerold the Chef calls his cooker one to many bad names and it subsequently removes itself from the wall and fries him.


Experience is something you get just after you need it
The Narkos Dynasty: 5k 
   
 
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