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2014/03/01 04:55:00
Subject: Warning to the Community: Defiance Games rip off
And the beauty of it is... some people are actually buying the "we've submitted stuff to be made in China, but the change in material will require a wee delay."
I'd be in stitches if it weren't so pathetic. Yes, Defiance does need to be taken down.
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
2014/03/01 19:53:42
Subject: Warning to the Community: Defiance Games rip off
The funny thing is that, yes: with the volume ordered via the KS it is highly likely that it would be cheaper (and certainly more consistent!) to produce those hardsuits in restic than in what passes for their trollcast-ripoff which seems hard enough to work with/in even if you do know what you're doing (mechs in HIPS does strain credulity).
Whatever they do, that reputation is never, ever going to change anymore. God, I'd love those suits in decent (at least predictable quality equal to reviews!) plastic/restic but what a shame it has to be this bunch...
2014/03/12 01:13:23
Subject: Warning to the Community: Defiance Games rip off
Just to say, I was hopelessly idealistic and contacted Kickstarter regarding this. After a patronizing form reply that showed where and how to contact a project creator, I sent them links to conversations and forums and articles about Defiance Games, and all they say is that Kickstarters usually run late when they are very successful, and look, he's not even past his last date.
So basically, piss off, man, we got our percentage.
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
2014/03/12 01:19:22
Subject: Warning to the Community: Defiance Games rip off
To be fair, Kickstarter does say "buyer beware", and any project you back you do so at your own risk.
They can't inspect and investigate each and every kickstarter before it goes live. It would require a massive amount of manpower.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
2014/03/12 09:44:36
Subject: Warning to the Community: Defiance Games rip off
Kickstarter have a straightforward proposition, consonant with normal contract law.
Kickstarter's job is to host the project description, take pledges, collect the money if the project gets funded, and pass the money minus a commission to the project company.
I guess Kickstarter look at project ideas and reject ones that are clearly nonsense/impossible, however it is not their responsibility to judge the level of risk, to make projects work, or to chase project companies whose projects fail.
Wouldn't it be better to get someone from one of the online "news" sites (if you can call them that) like the escapist? I recall seeing them especially bringing up articles about would be scam jobs on kickstarter that would have been otherwise exactly what Mathieu Raymond experienced (that is the "we got our percentage" thing i mean).
- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.
2014/03/12 15:00:10
Subject: Warning to the Community: Defiance Games rip off
Kickstarter has cancelled active projects due to information revealing that it is either a scam or extraordinarily shady. I believe the jerky one from last year was cancelled with only hours remaining after some backers did a little digging and determined it was complete garbage.
They've actively and even aggressively separated themselves from responsibility/culpability, but that doesn't mean they don't want phony or even highly questionable projects to run wild. Given that they (and Amazon) receive a percentage of the funds taken, they have a vested interest in making at least a token effort to not have the brand name sullied or besmirched by projects that just walk off with the cash. While their funding itself isn't jeopardized, the loss of backer confidence could very well impact their bottom line.
Granted, I'm sure very few people who say "omg this KS has huge delays and gaky communications, I'll never back a KS again!" actually refrain from ever participating again, some do follow through on that, and others will be significantly more resilient to participate, and of those that still do, many may well contribute less than they might have otherwise, all of which lead to fewer backers, lower funding, and less cash for both the projects and KS/Amazon.
Now, to be clear, I'm speaking generally here. One shady company walking away with 42k or so after KS/A took their cut isn't going to cripple their site or the industry, but enough issues across enough projects could indeed have some impact.
So, yeah, report campaigns that you feel are shady, explain why clearly, present evidence where possible, and spread the word. Doesn't mean you need to pledge a dollar and hound them in the comments for weeks, but helping people make informed choices is something to be lauded.
2014/03/21 00:27:12
Subject: Re:Warning to the Community: Defiance Games rip off
What's up with Mantic Men at Arms? I was about to order some Mantic stuff, should I be wary?
.Only a fool believes there is such a thing as price gouging. Things have value determined by the creator or merchant. If you don't agree with that value, you are free not to purchase.
2014/03/21 22:24:06
Subject: Warning to the Community: Defiance Games rip off
General Hobbs wrote: What's up with Mantic Men at Arms? I was about to order some Mantic stuff, should I be wary?
You know how when there's something really popular, you'll sometimes see other companies making gakky knockoffs? Well Mantic cut out the middleman. The Men at Arms are literally a gakky Chinese knockoff of the Men at Arms Mantic was trying to have cast. Not that that stopped them putting them up for sale or sending them to the people who paid for the real deal.
If you want Men at Arms, buy Perry's War of the Roses infantry. Failing that, wait and see what these are like.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
2014/03/21 22:38:41
Subject: Warning to the Community: Defiance Games rip off
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Just to say, I was hopelessly idealistic and contacted Kickstarter regarding this. After a patronizing form reply that showed where and how to contact a project creator, I sent them links to conversations and forums and articles about Defiance Games, and all they say is that Kickstarters usually run late when they are very successful, and look, he's not even past his last date.
So basically, piss off, man, we got our percentage.
You realize their are kickstarters that has failed and the creators straight up said not to expect anything from them?
If you go to "sad pictures for children" kickstarter, and can watch a video of the creator burning the books he owes people because he ran out of money to ship them and didn't want to deal with it any more.
Kickstarter told these people it's up to them to organize them selves and take the creators to court. The big thing about the defiance one is that i don't think a kickstarter this big has ever failed before.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/03/21 22:47:55
2014/03/21 22:44:36
Subject: Warning to the Community: Defiance Games rip off
You realize their are kickstarters that has failed and the creators straight up said not to expect anything from them?
If you go to "sad pictures for children" kickstarter, and can watch a video of the creator burning the books he owes people because he ran out of money to ship them and didn't want to deal with it any more.
You realize their are kickstarters that has failed and the creators straight up said not to expect anything from them?
If you go to "sad pictures for children" kickstarter, and can watch a video of the creator burning the books he owes people because he ran out of money to ship them and didn't want to deal with it any more.
The big thing about the defiance one is that i don't think a kickstarter this big has ever failed before.
I followed those links. There aren't even words for the first guy, and the second sounds like a slow decent into insanity.
My lord. I'm glad I'm careful with my Kickstarter money.
Yah, John Campbell is a scum bag. Even people emailing and saying "Hey, do you need more money for shipping or something?" got their books burned. He then has the nerve to accuse his fans are the reason the kickstarter failed. He also says they failed him because he was not able to make any money to live off the kickstarter and that they should bassicly be giveing him free money to live off of.
Self-entilied only scratchs the surface of that man's ego.
In the defence of the 2nd one, it's more a case of a tragic event happening to the creator then anything eals. I don't feel their was anything malicious on her part. schizophrenia dosen't devlope untill you reach adulthood, and when it comes on it hits like a truck.
I am in awe. How the hell do people like this not get lynched? Or thrown into an institution, which seems to be needed in the second case.
From what I can tell this one was more down to (pinch of salt) "actual medical condition". Schizophrenia (and others depending on what this actually ended up being) doesn't always exactly make sense to outsiders looking in, and people taking potshots like the above screencap don't help matters.
- 1250 points
Empire of the Blazing Sun (Combined Theaters)- 1950 points
FUBAR Starship Troopers- Would you like to know more?
GENERATION 9: The first time you see this, copy and paste it into your sig and add 1 to the number after generation. Consider it a social experiment.
2014/03/22 02:14:22
Subject: Re:Warning to the Community: Defiance Games rip off
I only brought thows two up due to them being the more extreme examples of kickstarters hands off approtch. The 1st creator straight up said he failed. Its now up to the crowd to organize their own legal action is kickstarter's policy.
The 2nd one is a example of how bad a kickstarter can go.
I am in awe. How the hell do people like this not get lynched? Or thrown into an institution, which seems to be needed in the second case.
From what I can tell this one was more down to (pinch of salt) "actual medical condition". Schizophrenia (and others depending on what this actually ended up being) doesn't always exactly make sense to outsiders looking in, and people taking potshots like the above screencap don't help matters.
I grew up around the mentally ill most my life. So i have seen 1st hand how mental illness deatroys people's lifes. I do wish the best for her.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/03/22 02:23:11
2014/03/22 04:29:27
Subject: Warning to the Community: Defiance Games rip off
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Just to say, I was hopelessly idealistic and contacted Kickstarter regarding this. After a patronizing form reply that showed where and how to contact a project creator, I sent them links to conversations and forums and articles about Defiance Games, and all they say is that Kickstarters usually run late when they are very successful, and look, he's not even past his last date.
So basically, piss off, man, we got our percentage.
You realize their are kickstarters that has failed and the creators straight up said not to expect anything from them?
If you go to "sad pictures for children" kickstarter, and can watch a video of the creator burning the books he owes people because he ran out of money to ship them and didn't want to deal with it any more.
Kickstarter told these people it's up to them to organize them selves and take the creators to court. The big thing about the defiance one is that i don't think a kickstarter this big has ever failed before.
Wow . The second person just seems to have mental issues, but the first guy is brazen. Pretty sure I'd have gone out of my way to get money back on that one (even if just from KS through a credit card claim) if I'd been involved. I mean, he literally burned the product. Heh.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/22 04:32:24
2014/03/22 04:35:05
Subject: Warning to the Community: Defiance Games rip off
Hell, even projects that are being run with actual companies behind them can waffle about and fail for years on end.
Ogre is the obvious example of this, but an ongoing example would be Palladium Books' campaign for their new Robotech Miniatures line. Currently undergoing a bit of a cluster-feth in the update comments over some less than stellar prototype pics, 3 months late currently, projected to be at least another 4 months before they can deliver half of what they promised backers, with the other half due "at the end of the year" (spoiler alert: we'll be lucky to see it before mid 2015).
2014/03/22 06:36:57
Subject: Warning to the Community: Defiance Games rip off
OGRE turned into a mini disaster for me. I backed it before it even became a Kickstarter -- meaning I registered on the Steve Jackson Games site when they started gathering support to remake the game.
I backed it when it became a Kickstarter. I had to reduce my pledge from a full game level to just the PDF rules and scenarios books, because they decided to make the game so big that it was going to be too expensive to ship to the UK. I never got my PDFs, even though I registered for them, so basically I wasted $25. The whole process took about three years.
I probably could get the PDFs by contacting SJG directly but the whole project has been such a long, sad disappointment that I sort of feel like I don't want anything to do with it any more. Which is a bit sad given I am a huge OGRE fan and still have the original pocket game versions published 35 years ago.
- 1250 points
. The second person just seems to have mental issues, but the first guy is brazen. Pretty sure I'd have gone out of my way to get money back on that one (even if just from