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Like I said, the price is still somewhat reasonable. But when the price quite literally doubles overnight, it becomes hard to see the value in paying twice the price for the exact same stuff you've already been buying for years... We're not talking a gradual increase, we're talking a huge, sudden increase in price with absolutely no justification.

Yes, it's cheaper than a Finecast Elf army, but as I say, there's a reason I'm not playing a Finecast Elf army, I find those prices just as absurd and refuse to pay them.

 Paradigm wrote:
Like I said, the price is still somewhat reasonable. But when the price quite literally doubles overnight, it becomes hard to see the value in paying twice the price for the exact same stuff you've already been buying for years... We're not talking a gradual increase, we're talking a huge, sudden increase in price with absolutely no justification.

Yes, it's cheaper than a Finecast Elf army, but as I say, there's a reason I'm not playing a Finecast Elf army, I find those prices just as absurd and refuse to pay them.

When did the price quite literally double overnight? Was it recently? A news item? In January of 2012 - nearly 4.5 years ago, they went from two-sprue boxes that were $35 to one-sprue boxes that were (and remain) $24.75; Cavalry remained the same price.
Is that what you're talking about?


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Let me clarify; when I say that a $5 Forge World Dwarf is a good price, I'm talking about May 2016 dollars, not January 2012 dollars or 2001 dollars or "back in the good ol' days" dollars, because, gosh, then everything sucks compared to when we could get a set of tin flats and three humbrol glossy enamel paints for 99p !

That's the one, I don't know about the US prices but in the UK they went from £16 for 24 to £15 for 12, so only a pound short of actually doubling. Might not be recent, but it's still the reason I've not bought a single LotR plastic set since then. Fortunately I had enough to finish up most of my armies, but that doesn't excuse the ridiculous increase. Something cannot just be valued at one price one day and then practically double that the next, it's just naked greed.

I know you're talking about current prices, but I'm arguing that even then, these models are too expensive for me personally to be interested in. If you can afford them and see the value then good for you, but I just don't.

 Paradigm wrote:
That's the one, I don't know about the US prices but in the UK they went from £16 for 24 to £15 for 12, so only a pound short of actually doubling.

No, you can even go and find the old threads about it on dakka back in January 2012; they dropped in price by 1/3, not one pound - the joke at the time was "33% discount for 50% less models!"

Once again, to everyone reading this thread in the News & Rumors section, there has been no overnight price increase for SBG models. The last increase was nearly 4.5 years ago - and in fact we've had a decrease on one kit and older out of print models are now being reprinted.



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 Paradigm wrote:
I know you're talking about current prices, but I'm arguing that even then, these models are too expensive for me personally to be interested in. If you can afford them and see the value then good for you, but I just don't.

I do; it is the best ruleset GW makes (and one of the best it has ever made) and is home to the best sculpts GW has ever done. The models and game put every other offering by GW and the offerings by the vast majority of other rules designers and figure manufacturers to shame.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
To be fair on the price, that's still cheaper than they are in finecast blisters right now. And they'll be sold in boxes of 12 (full war band size) rather than blisters of three. So it's better than it is right now.

It also helps that you don't need to buy 5-6 boxes or more of the little guys, like you would to play Deathkreig in 40K. You could mix one box of these with a dozen of the plastic Warriors of Erebor plus a few Heroes to have a playable force. Overall the "cost of entry" (the big problem with both 40K and WFB) is still pretty reasonable.

Not to be mediator guy... but I definitely understand both perspective. The only perspective I can provide is as someone who found the game in the last six months, coming from having played tons of 40k, WHFB, and Kings of War in the last couple of years (plus some "indie" games like Frostgrave, or This is Not a Test".

From that vantage point, Middle-Earth SBG is still legitimately a value rich game. Compared at today's dollars, point-for-point compared against other current game, SBG is still cheap, surprisingly available, and the rules are so, so good/clean.

That said, sure... I can imagine a particularly valid salt for those who haven't seen their favorite factions get new sprues, and instead just saw boxes of two sprues, suddenly become one. No one wants to feel that happen.

But, again for context... lets just soak in how pleasant it generally is that the new, and improving corporate culture of GW can not only put models and books back in print which was becoming unattainably rare/expensive on the secondary market, and even supporting the game with new kits (at, acceptable by most MODERN standards prices), for a game that honestly no one thought would see the light of day again.

Also, cheap by any standard, reprinted codexes, huge scenario books on the horizon, and some of the best, and cheapest quality terrain the industry has seen back in print?

All in all, i'm seeing a lot more positive here than not. :-) Well, unless you're that one guy who hates everything GW will ever do again, and only likes Magic cards. ;-) (I kid, I kid... its all in the name of good fun).

Don't get me wrong, I agree with all that, the fact GW is finally reviving the game that should never have gone away, and doing so with far more commitment than they've shown recently, is undoubtedly great news. I won't be buying much new stuff as basically, I don't need to with most of my armies being reasonably complete, but it's all good really!

 Paradigm wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I agree with all that, the fact GW is finally reviving the game that should never have gone away, and doing so with far more commitment than they've shown recently, is undoubtedly great news. I won't be buying much new stuff as basically, I don't need to with most of my armies being reasonably complete, but it's all good really!

I'm in much the same situation. I spend the last two years (and more money than I care to admit) completing my LOTR collection because I thought the end was immanent. Currently, with a meager handful of exceptions, I've got at least one of every character, 12 of every metal/finecast warrior and 24 of every plastic warrior ever made for the game.

I am looking forward to the new stuff they are promising us for the Hobbit portion of the range and I plan to pick up at least a couple of the re-released Osgiliath Ruins and Laketown buildings. Mostly, though, I'm just excited that this renewed support make generate some new players for club and league play.

Well gosh if any if you gents has any old metal mordor orcs, let me know! I'm working on completing a set of them and I've got some doubles/triples of some poses and looking to swap for ones I don't have yet

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
To be fair on the price, that's still cheaper than they are in finecast blisters right now. And they'll be sold in boxes of 12 (full war band size) rather than blisters of three. So it's better than it is right now.

a) 3 or 12, price per miniature is what counts
b) just because it might be better than now doesn't make the price fair. Sure it might not be 100£ per model but it's still too much for what it gives in return. While I COULD afford to pay if I wanted to with those prices I have better targets for my money.

Good thing there's ebay though takes bit more time. But GW is pricing themselves to point where time is less of a price.


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 judgedoug wrote:
What we need is more threads about how GW has had price increases over 15 years.

I feel that people who are complaining about the price of plastics aren't those who actually play the game - if they were, they'd know that usually one box of plastics equals a warband, and usually about two is all you need for an army. It's the special metal and Finecast models that start racking up the costs.

Forgeworld resin dwarf infantry and $5 per model beats the snot out of trying to play Rivendell/Eregion and paying almost $7 for a Finecast Elf with Spear & Shield.

Yeah I don't play anymore. You know why? GW priced themselves too high. Sure technically I could afford. It wouldn't drive me into poverty to buy. But it just ain't WORTH the money. Why spend this amount for bunch of models when there's better things I could spend the money? There's only so much euro's I'm willing to spend per model. And GW went over that long time ago.

Too pricey models, won't buy models. No models, can't play.

I used to play LOTR but with the pricing screw it. Too expensive for what it offers in return.

I play Lotr but not with gw models as they are easier to find and cheaper. I must be doing it wrong.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
I play Lotr but not with gw models as they are easier to find and cheaper. I must be doing it wrong.

It may be shocking and amazing news to hear, but people can do things different ways without either person having to be wrong

Having a consistent aesthetic is important to me, so I tend not to prefer not mixing and matching my miniature sources.

I really dont get the whole "i used to play but now i dont because the price is too high" why do you need to keep buying if you already have models to play?

It is true however that the prices are too high for what you get with the plastic lotr models. Single pose less detail smaller scale for the same price as 40k multipart high detail plastics with options and spares is rediculous. The hobbit minis are in a category of their own in crazy pricing. Doesnt bother me however because I already have a huge army from.back when morder orcs were 24 for £12 (which did rise to 15) and you got 2 heroes per blister for £5-6

All ill be buying is a new fallen realms book and ill be good to go!

If I was a new player however I'd be seriously put off playing just because of the cost of the basic models.

Bobug wrote:
I really dont get the whole "i used to play but now i dont because the price is too high" why do you need to keep buying if you already have models to play?

'cause due to need for money and having lost gaming partners(not to mention your room getting ridiculously crowded so something needed to go) you sold your models?

For me to play now would require total rebuild from scratch.

(And for the record I don't agree with 40k prices either. While I have 40k models that I still use in 2nd edition games I have stopped buying new ones precisely for same reason. Not enough value to be given. Frankly GW prices are getting to the level I would rather invest in good system camera. Price vs fun is getting awfully good for system cameras favour...Only issue with THAT being that those are bit heavy for my main camera use)

Plastics have gone up allot, but you can usually fine the plastics for pretty cheap secondhand due to the magazine thing that went around.

What in the flying feth? So the SBG N&R thread is now populated with people complaining about a price increase from four and a half years ago and that somehow that price increase invalidated all the miniatures they used to own?

Can a mod please step in and edit/delete/enforce this thread? Because right now it's a pile of steaming garbage.


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tneva82 wrote:
While I COULD afford to pay if I wanted to with those prices I have better targets for my money.

So, let me get this straight. You wander into the SBG News & Rumor thread in order to complain about a price increase from four and a half years ago and that somehow that price increase invalidated all the models you used to own (economically, GW did you a favor and increased the value of your models), and now you don't play the game, but you have the overwhelming urge to tell everyone that you don't play and you'd rather spend your money on other models.

Fantastic.

Don't worry Doug. Its just a tangent, as long term threads tend to have... and as negativity goes, there is worse than discussion about a game where no one has a single bad thing to say about the game itself. :-)

Besides, you and I will, on our own, buy enough units to maintain GW's continued support. :-) I certainly appreciate everyone's opinions, but for my own self, I am buying EVERYTHING they release for this game going forward, and filling in my back-catalogue as they reissue units, and OOP models. :-)

I know that 12 decent plastic figures for about $25 is not a price I consider too high. I may pick up a box of the plastic dwarf rangers and the other plastic dwarfs. I never wanted 24 of each so this actually works out well for me.

I'm looking forward to seeing the plastic terrain too. I love my Moria set and my Goblin Town set.

I recently ordered a box of Conquest Games/Warlord Norman Knights to try to make some Rohan riders. I'm looking forward to this!

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
From that vantage point, Middle-Earth SBG is still legitimately a value rich game. Compared at today's dollars, point-for-point compared against other current game, SBG is still cheap, surprisingly available, and the rules are so, so good/clean.

That said, sure... I can imagine a particularly valid salt for those who haven't seen their favorite factions get new sprues, and instead just saw boxes of two sprues, suddenly become one. No one wants to feel that happen.

I think the problem is that a lot of people that are complaining about a price increase from January 2012 are people that didn't actually play the game. As you and I and all actual SBG players know, normal SBG has units act in warbands of up to twelve warriors - that must be led by a hero. Having piles of dozens and dozens up to hundreds of models for SBG "in the good ol days" was either for some insane Legions of Middle-Earth army list, or... well, I have no idea, someone who just likes having piles of infantry surround them as they lament the passing of the good ol' days. Most armies have maybe 24 plastic infantry in them, tops. They are the least of any player's concern. Buying a box of 24 Dwarf Rangers may look great to someone who doesn't play, but the fact of the matter is you'll probably use like 8 or 12 of those guys in any Durin's Folk list. While we all dislike paying more, the 10/12-man boxes serve the Warbands rules perfectly well.

Plus, it happened four and a half years ago.


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 CptJake wrote:
I know that 12 decent plastic figures for about $25 is not a price I consider too high. I may pick up a box of the plastic dwarf rangers and the other plastic dwarfs. I never wanted 24 of each so this actually works out well for me.

I'm looking forward to seeing the plastic terrain too. I love my Moria set and my Goblin Town set.

I recently ordered a box of Conquest Games/Warlord Norman Knights to try to make some Rohan riders. I'm looking forward to this!

And now that Warlord is rereleasing the supercheap WGF figs with a price increase, I think we're leaving the days of supercheap plastic models. 12 dudes for $25 is a little pricey, but again, in the context of SBG when you need maybe two boxes, it's not bad. Especially since the vast majority are sculpted by Perry. And the Hobbit plastics are pretty much the best plastic infantry ever released - just got my fourth Warriors of Dale set because they are my favorite plastic fantasy infantry of all time and are well worth the price. No idea why I bought that fourth set, but whatever. hah

If you don't have the Osgiliath set, I recommend getting two. They are fantastic. I own five or six sets personally.

I recently got the Fireforge mounted sergeants to convert with plastic Numenorean infantry to make Numenorean knights!


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NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Don't worry Doug. Its just a tangent, as long term threads tend to have... and as negativity goes, there is worse than discussion about a game where no one has a single bad thing to say about the game itself. :-)

Besides, you and I will, on our own, buy enough units to maintain GW's continued support. :-) I certainly appreciate everyone's opinions, but for my own self, I am buying EVERYTHING they release for this game going forward, and filling in my back-catalogue as they reissue units, and OOP models. :-)

Okay, you have a point. We are in an era where SBG is getting new rules, new units, new books, out of production models back in print - and new models, that are actually CHEAPER than current models! The rules are some of the best GW has ever released (thanks to Alessio Cavatore and Rick Priestley, and now thanks to Adam Troke), the miniatures line is one of the finest to ever hit market. And the only real complaint is a price increase from years and years ago
And yeah I'm in the same boat. I have nearly ever model released, except for some armies (I don't collect any Rohan, Khand, Angmar, or Rhun/Easterlings for instance)

Does anyone know if the re-releases last week made it to the rumours? Not sure if I read anywhere which models were going to be re-releases that week? Just interested if they are going to be doing weekly re-releases or if it will be spaced out more than that?

Yep, they were mentioned a page or so back. I believe they mentioned that every week there would be 'something', whether that is a new release or a re-release.

Bobug wrote:I really dont get the whole "i used to play but now i dont because the price is too high" why do you need to keep buying if you already have models to play?

I can think of a few reasons. While yes we don't have to buy anything new to play thing is we still love to buy new shiney stuff. So if the new stuff is priced high compared to what we use to pay for, we just don't find the worth in it now.

Another reason is trying to get to players. Why bother getting back in, while we don't have to buy anything else, if no new players will be coming in again, because of higher prices why bother starting?

I don't know if this would apply but I think it has something to do with high prices. The thing is, GW needs us, we don't need GW. While we would love to have LotR product again we don't need it. GW needs to sell it. Unlike AoS where GW have written the Fantasy players away and are expecting new players coming in to save them, there will be no new players coming in to buy LotR. It will be basically us, the old folks who use to buy LotR again to support this range and then hoping to bring in new players with the excitement we create. So again, GW needs us more than ever. So to price us out from the beginning, just boggles my mind. Wait I take that back, this is GW after all and I expect them to make stupid decisions. Even after all the good will they do, I still am leary of what they can do. Time will tell since we don't know what GW vision is yet of LotR.

So I am hoping to start buying again. Time will tell.

Doug really nailed it with his statements about how warbands, even in bigger SBG games are constructed. I will certainly echo his statement of, one box is all anyone but the most hardcore player would need of any given unit, outside of theme armies you, as a player, choose to build. Unlike say 40k, that one box for $25 may legitimately be the only time you buy "Thing X", which makes the price/value proposition far better as well.

Yes, nuts like me will want 24 of the new FW Iron-Hill Dwarves, but only because I LOVE Dwarves, and like trying extreme, odd, lists in SBG. Buying 24 of 'em certainly won't be a smart, or typical player experience. :-p

Nah... I stand by the fact that SBG is still one of the best miniatures games I have EVER played, and still has one of the cheapest barriers to play ever as well. Sure, it can be pricey if you go for a fringe, all-resin, faction, but 85% of the core armies can have good, fun, playable, and even competitive lists for under $100, which is amazing in this hobby.

And I would love new players to discover the game, and hope they will... but I don't need that to happen to find great joy in the game, and love growing and painting my collection. If anything, I hope my passion and enthusiasm finds just as many new players as does the prospect of "new" GW models and rules.

Davor wrote:

Bobug wrote:I really dont get the whole "i used to play but now i dont because the price is too high" why do you need to keep buying if you already have models to play?

I can think of a few reasons. While yes we don't have to buy anything new to play thing is we still love to buy new shiney stuff. So if the new stuff is priced high compared to what we use to pay for, we just don't find the worth in it now.

Another reason is trying to get to players. Why bother getting back in, while we don't have to buy anything else, if no new players will be coming in again, because of higher prices why bother starting?

I don't know if this would apply but I think it has something to do with high prices. The thing is, GW needs us, we don't need GW. While we would love to have LotR product again we don't need it. GW needs to sell it. Unlike AoS where GW have written the Fantasy players away and are expecting new players coming in to save them, there will be no new players coming in to buy LotR. It will be basically us, the old folks who use to buy LotR again to support this range and then hoping to bring in new players with the excitement we create. So again, GW needs us more than ever. So to price us out from the beginning, just boggles my mind. Wait I take that back, this is GW after all and I expect them to make stupid decisions. Even after all the good will they do, I still am leary of what they can do. Time will tell since we don't know what GW vision is yet of LotR.

So I am hoping to start buying again. Time will tell.

High prices drive out new players and without new players as people drop off the community gets smaller and smaller. The game eventually dies

To play devils advocate for a moment, wouldn't you need multiples of boxes that contain models with different armaments, like Uruk-Hai?

Although I disagree with the price/unit size changes it is to be expected much like in every industry, however in the past GW seems to have taken a route which is both extremely aggressive and offensive to their customer base. LOTR SBG may be a warband style of game for many competitive gamers, i.e smaller point style where you may only find smaller amounts of units feasible, you may be forgetting the source material. The allure for many people who bought SBG products was the recreation of the large battles from the movies and or books, which is essentially why my friends and myself got into the game. While I do enjoy smaller battles for the time it takes to play them they really do not capture the same feel as the larger battles (despite the headache that massive amounts of units can cause). Perhaps a re-branding to Middle Earth Strategy Skirmish Game would be more appropriate than Strategy Battle Game?


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Despite all of this disagreement on GW business decisions, past, present and future, I am happy that the BotFA models as well as OOP models will be released/re-released. This will allow both people to buy new from games workshop, as well as (hopefully) drive down 3rd party seller prices for secondhand models (i.e. ebay).

 Mymearan wrote:
To play devils advocate for a moment, wouldn't you need multiples of boxes that contain models with different armaments, like Uruk-Hai?

Uruks are SUPER easy to WYSIWYG outside of crossbows. The boxes make equal numbers of pikes, and sword-n-board, which is almost exactly the configuration you would take them in. Two boxes of 12, plus 1-2 blisters of crossbows, and a couple heroes/banner and you have a viable, fluffy, army. :-)


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SnakeSampson wrote:
Although I disagree with the price/unit size changes it is to be expected much like in every industry, however in the past GW seems to have taken a route which is both extremely aggressive and offensive to their customer base. LOTR SBG may be a warband style of game for many competitive gamers, i.e smaller point style where you may only find smaller amounts of units feasible, you may be forgetting the source material. The allure for many people who bought SBG products was the recreation of the large battles from the movies and or books, which is essentially why my friends and myself got into the game. While I do enjoy smaller battles for the time it takes to play them they really do not capture the same feel as the larger battles (despite the headache that massive amounts of units can cause). Perhaps a re-branding to Middle Earth Strategy Skirmish Game would be more appropriate than Strategy Battle Game?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Despite all of this disagreement on GW business decisions, past, present and future, I am happy that the BotFA models as well as OOP models will be released/re-released. This will allow both people to buy new from games workshop, as well as (hopefully) drive down 3rd party seller prices for secondhand models (i.e. ebay).

I do think the game grows unwieldy beyond a certain size, but outside of re-creating REALLY fluffy scenarios that would require 1000+ points or more per player, most games are not played at skirmish size either. Sure, 300pts is a fun little game, but the competitive scene plays games, traditionally at 600-700 points, which can feature oh.... 20 models in an elite list, or 70+ models of Goblin town. That isn't skirmish or a tiny game by any stretch... and yet its still CHEAP to build toward that size.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Doug really nailed it with his statements about how warbands, even in bigger SBG games are constructed. I will certainly echo his statement of, one box is all anyone but the most hardcore player would need of any given unit, outside of theme armies you, as a player, choose to build. Unlike say 40k, that one box for $25 may legitimately be the only time you buy "Thing X", which makes the price/value proposition far better as well..

And even then it's too pricey. You get too few models for what you pay and what it gives in return.

2 boxes of minas tirith warriors, commander set, boxes of knights, mounted faramari. Pretty sure it was mentioned here as cheap 500 pts army in this very thread.

That's 29 foot models, 7 mounted models. And that's deliberately avoiding any more exoteric stuff(22£ for one foot and one mounted model? Give me a break. No 25mm scaled normal human sized model is worth that much money. Inflation hasn't been THAT horrible)

For almost half the price you can get excelent perrys models for 46 infantry and 15 cavalry.

Even if you arque LOTR models are superior quality it's not THAT big quality.

And finally. While LOTR is fun game it's not that fun. Just ain't worth the money. So GW priced them out and doesn't seem move to SG do anything to help. Just the opposite.

So there went my plan of restarting the game. Too bad. Sieges were great fun. But it's not fun enough to pay those prices.

I'm happy to see that they are supporting the SBG.

The price change completely killed the WotR game in my area.
It was hard enough to get others involved because of the way companies were formed. But the 33% increase (I swear it was a 50%) put the coup de grace on it.

Most of the armys I'd want to make would need 2 of the current boxes to get what I'd want as a core, and god forbid a Moria army.(Thankfully i have all the goblins i need, i think.)