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JohnHwangDD wrote: What makes you think in 10 pages of comments, none of the posters have been female?
that is why i'm asking. I don't know who is female or not.
that and if any females they are probably looking at us making judgment calls and sexualization decisions over little barely over an inch miniatures.
Doesn't really matter I guess, they're models and the only really troubling ones are the really inappropriate ones anyway cause it's just kind of uncomfortable to see them at somewhere like a GW or such. I don't think anyone is making judgement calls either.
@Yodhrin You seem to assume a level of integrity in intent that frankly there is no evidence for. GW has never produced models or fluff for any other reason then to appeal to 13 year old male power fantasy.
Which is not, in and of itself, a problem. That immature ridiculous over the top grim dark insanity is most of the appeal of 40ks fluff.
When they got started the idea that what they were creating when they made their female models was damaging or offensive was not even a discussion. It's only been in the last 20... 25ish years that the discussion has gained any real traction at all and only in the last 16ish that companys have started to acknowledge it with their promotional material and products.
The idea that the sisters are the same as a nude art study is just plain wrong. The point of the vast majority of nude art created from a life model is to study the human form. To understand how it moves, how light and shadow acts on it etc etc...
The sisters are not modeled to study the human form. They were not designed to show an expression of the female form. They are battle nuns in a ridiculous setting designed to appeal to their primary market in an industry dominated by men and traditionally mostly supported by men. Think that is ridiculous? Lets look at one of the very first books that codified rules for minature war gaming and got this hobby started.
Little Wars: a game for boys from twelve years of age to one hundred and fifty and for that more intelligent sort of girl who likes boys' games and books, by H.G. Wells.
The fact is GW has never been a particularly great company in a lot of ways. But they most definitely have done a piss poor job of diversity and respectful representation of minorities in their miniature lines. Coupled with their target audience and the time these models were created it is a sure thing that the guy who made these models was not attempting to create a classy representation of females in the 40k universe that challenged "the patriarchal idea that women should be quiet".
This goes doubly when you account for the fact that their fluff is they are called the "brides of the emperor" and are all blindly evangelical cultists that worship a patriarchal figure in a patriarchal society dominated by patriarchal figures and whos poster boys and greatest heroes are patriarchal super men in power armor that very specifically cannot be women.
As an aside, has it not occurred to anyone who brands the Sisters as sexist that their depiction as obviously female, aggressively militant "nuns with guns" is a deliberate middle-finger to the very patriarchal idea that women should be quiet, demure, and chaste? I don't claim to know the mind of John Blanche as he was designing them but considering the obvious Punk sensibilities in a lot of his art, that expanation is at least as likely as the idea some mouthbreathing neckbeard wanted to make sexy lady-dollies to play with.
That explanation is not "at least as likely". Taking the entire situation into account at the time the sisters were invented and those models were made it is actually incredibly UNLIKELY that any thought about respectful representation of women or the models ability to act as a figure of empowerment against a negative world view of women was done at all.
This is not a 50/50 chance that the team behind their design was trying to be respectful or not. It's like like a 99.99999% certainty that they were not.
Sure, there is a 0.00001% chance that the entire team decided to account for ideology's that for all intents and purposes didn't exist at the time AND convinced their superiors to let them do it. I will agree there is a chance. I might also get struck by a meteorite when I walk outside my door. The probability is so low as to be meaningless.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/20 17:03:10
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
terry wrote: personaly I like the way GW has done it with the current sisters of battle, yes you can see them, but I don't think its done distasteful. I realy hope GW will keep this style for the sisters of battle, if they would remove the boob armour
Many of the SoB not only have boob plate, they have a big cross on them or some other marking whos only purpose is to draw the eye to exactly on what i assume they want to be the nipple. It's not just that they have boob armor. They literally have a cross-hairs target molded onto each of their tits.
-image snip-
It's actually the most sexualized and least tasteful way they could have done "boob plate".
What tremendous nonsense.
Ah I see now. Someone who has a differing opinion than you is nonsense. His opinion is perfectly valid just like yours. Do I agree with him? No but I respect his opinion.
Now I see your point now. Here I thought you were correct but now, if nobody thinks like you they are wrong. Got it.
Just remember back in the day, a dress over the ankles was sexualizing. So everyone has a different opinion and their opinions are valid, not nonsense. Do I agree? No. Who am I to say they are wrong or not in what they think.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/10/20 17:07:17
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
Just because you've got a pair of knockers doesn't mean you have some kind of higher ground to support whichever "side" you're on, especially when talking about a fantasy universe. The best you could provide is some anecdotal information or support, whatever good that will do for a mostly over the top, fantasy setting. Whoever's behind the screen is not relevant - they could be lying about their identity for all you know. It's all about what they say.
oh I don't know maybe them being female they might have an input on how women feel about how women are represented in the SoB miniatures, just my 2-cents.
JohnHwangDD wrote: What makes you think in 10 pages of comments, none of the posters have been female?
that is why i'm asking. I don't know who is female or not.
that and if any females they are probably looking at us making judgment calls and sexualization decisions over little barely over an inch miniatures.
I barely care about anyone's opinions, anyway. Be they man, woman, or household pet. "Shut up, cat! You can't have my tuna!"
I will tell you my wife's opinion anyway as she shared it with me. For what it's worth....
This is cool:
Spoiler:
This is stupid:
Spoiler:
thats pretty much how I see it, I see people getting in a twist about SoB miniatures when there is so much wrong with other miniature companies it boggles the mind. also you know the Cat has control over you? they are using their powers on you man.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
Lance845 wrote: This goes doubly when you account for the fact that their fluff is they are called the "brides of the emperor" and are all blindly evangelical cultists that worship a patriarchal figure in a patriarchal society dominated by patriarchal figures and whos poster boys and greatest heroes are patriarchal super men in power armor that very specifically cannot be women.
That explanation is not "at least as likely". Taking the entire situation into account at the time the sisters were invented and those models were made it is actually incredibly UNLIKELY that any thought about respectful representation of women or the models ability to act as a figure of empowerment against a negative world view of women was done at all.
This is not a 50/50 chance that the team behind their design was trying to be respectful or not. It's like like a 99.99999% certainty that they were not.
Sure, there is a 0.00001% chance that the entire team decided to account for ideology's that for all intents and purposes didn't exist at the time AND convinced their superiors to let them do it. I will agree there is a chance. I might also get struck by a meteorite when I walk outside my door. The probability is so low as to be meaningless.
They're the Daughters of the Emperor, not the brides. As the Space Marines are also the sons of the Emperor. The brides were a kind of heretical cult of groupies following Vandire during that whole age of apostasy thing which led to the Decree Passive preventing the church from maintaining "Men under arms" thus the style is likely intentional as they exist as a loophole. They started as the daughters of the Emperor as well, just that cult that decided to be super loyal to Vandire that changed.
It's very likely when they were designed at first that GW didn't even think of that ideology stuff because it wasn't such a huge topic as it is now, it was still relevant but it goes to show the stagnation in the overall development of the SoB. So I wouldn't really put any thoughts of what their intentions were regarding this sort of stuff other than there was likely some sort of background reason for their decisions and due to the technology they were working with at the time if they hadn't gone the boobplate route the models would have likely not have stood out as female so much. Just as the bobcut was a decision made because of their casting methods.
oh I don't know maybe them being female they might have an input on how women feel about how women are represented in the SoB miniatures, just my 2-cents.
Just because they are part of a demographic does not mean they can speak for all of that demographic. I may be an 18 year old male, but just because I say I don't see SoB miniatures as sexualised or sexy, doesn't mean other males my age don't weirdly dribble over such models and their "Boob Armour". There are usually other people who agree with you from the same demographic, but I would recommend people only speak for themselves, and possibly anyone they know who they know agrees with them, without caring for who and how many people agree with your statements on a network where you mostly remain anonymous.
Saying you're female adds just as much usefulness to your point as those kids on YouTube comment feeds who say "I'm 14 by the way" for no apparent reason. While anecdotal information can be helpful, it's not going to contribute in this discussion unless you have a profession or hobby along the lines of a sculptor or similar, and by that point, nobody should give a damn whether you're male or female.
G.A
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/20 17:23:09
oh I don't know maybe them being female they might have an input on how women feel about how women are represented in the SoB miniatures, just my 2-cents.
Just because they are part of a demographic does not mean they can speak for all of that demographic. I may be an 18 year old male, but just because I say I don't see SoB miniatures as sexualised or sexy, doesn't mean other males my age don't weirdly dribble over such models and their "Boob Armour". There are usually other people who agree with you from the same demographic, but I would recommend people only speak for themselves, and possibly anyone they know who they know agrees with them, without caring for who and how many people agree with your statements on a network where you mostly remain anonymous.
Saying you're female adds just as much usefulness to your point as those kids on YouTube comment feeds who say "I'm 14 by the way" for no apparent reason. While anecdotal information can be helpful, it's not going to contribute in this discussion unless you have a profession or hobby along the lines of a sculptor or similar, and by that point, nobody should give a damn whether you're male or female.
G.A
except a woman will have a better clue about women then a man would, seriously do you see what you are typing? people are here saying the SoB models would offend women, so i'm saying why not ask them, instead of putting those suppositions into their mouth, or would you rather women stay in the kitchen where you think they should be? or that women should remain quiet and let the men talk since women obviously know nothing about women, congrats you just went back to the 50's.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/20 17:27:05
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
It'd help to form a poll to get a general idea of the opinion of each group and that's really the only time such a thing would be relevant. Even then the sample size here would probably be way too small to get a good idea of it.
terry wrote: personaly I like the way GW has done it with the current sisters of battle, yes you can see them, but I don't think its done distasteful. I realy hope GW will keep this style for the sisters of battle, if they would remove the boob armour
Many of the SoB not only have boob plate, they have a big cross on them or some other marking whos only purpose is to draw the eye to exactly on what i assume they want to be the nipple. It's not just that they have boob armor. They literally have a cross-hairs target molded onto each of their tits.
-image snip-
It's actually the most sexualized and least tasteful way they could have done "boob plate".
What tremendous nonsense.
Ah I see now. Someone who has a differing opinion than you is nonsense. His opinion is perfectly valid just like yours. Do I agree with him? No but I respect his opinion.
Now I see your point now. Here I thought you were correct but now, if nobody thinks like you they are wrong. Got it.
Just remember back in the day, a dress over the ankles was sexualizing. So everyone has a different opinion and their opinions are valid, not nonsense. Do I agree? No. Who am I to say they are wrong or not in what they think.
Professor Brian Cox wrote:The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
except a woman will have a better clue about women then a man would, seriously do you see what you are typing? people are here saying the SoB models would offend women, so i'm saying why not ask them, instead of putting those suppositions into their mouth, or would you rather women stay in the kitchen where you think they should be? or that women should remain quiet and let the men talk since women obviously know nothing about women, congrats you just went back to the 50's.
Congratulations, you missed the point.
Firstly, I'm not speaking for anyone else here, unlike you are (ironically, considering you and others are claiming people other than yourself have the opinion you think they do).
Secondly, I'm not trying to silence anyone else.
Thirdly, you are the only one who has suggested anything about women "belonging in kitchens" or that I have somehow "returned to the 50's" for saying that it makes no difference whether you are a male or female commenting on this thread, just because the subject matter revolves around females. you don't speak for everyone of your sex, especially regarding how your sex is perceived in various mediums.
But yeah, I'm obviously a misogynistic, sexist little boy who doesn't care about women. Thanks for making me the villain of the thread - boy is this familiar!
n0t_u wrote: It'd help to form a poll to get a general idea of the opinion of each group and that's really the only time such a thing would be relevant. Even then the sample size here would probably be way too small to get a good idea of it.
At least one person gets it. Thank you
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/20 17:44:23
except a woman will have a better clue about women then a man would, seriously do you see what you are typing? people are here saying the SoB models would offend women, so i'm saying why not ask them, instead of putting those suppositions into their mouth, or would you rather women stay in the kitchen where you think they should be? or that women should remain quiet and let the men talk since women obviously know nothing about women, congrats you just went back to the 50's.
Congratulations, you missed the point.
Firstly, I'm not speaking for anyone else here, unlike you are (ironically, considering you and others are claiming people other than yourself have the opinion you think they do).
Secondly, I'm not trying to silence anyone else.
Thirdly, you are the only one who has suggested anything about women "belonging in kitchens" or that I have somehow "returned to the 50's" for saying that it makes no difference whether you are a male or female commenting on this thread, just because the subject matter revolves around females. you don't speak for everyone of your sex, especially regarding how your sex is perceived in various mediums.
But yeah, I'm obviously a misogynistic, sexist little boy who doesn't care about women. Thanks for making me the villain of the thread - boy is this familiar!
n0t_u wrote: It'd help to form a poll to get a general idea of the opinion of each group and that's really the only time such a thing would be relevant. Even then the sample size here would probably be way too small to get a good idea of it.
At least one person gets it. Thank you
actually I asked for their opinion, you are the one who said their opinion does not matter, you made yourself the villain of this thread so congratulations belong to only you.
Thinks Palladium books screwed the pooch on the Robotech project.
JohnHwangDD wrote: What makes you think in 10 pages of comments, none of the posters have been female?
that is why i'm asking. I don't know who is female or not.
that and if any females they are probably looking at us making judgment calls and sexualization decisions over little barely over an inch miniatures.
I'm not even sure why they would have to identify themselves as such to you. What makes you think that you are entitled to knowing whether someone is female or not? ____
kronk wrote: I will tell you my wife's opinion anyway as she shared it with me. For what it's worth....
This is stupid:
Spoiler:
I see someone watched Equilibrium. Which was unbelievably stupid and stupidly unbelievable from the very first scenes.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/20 18:58:12
except a woman will have a better clue about women then a man would, seriously do you see what you are typing? people are here saying the SoB models would offend women, so i'm saying why not ask them, instead of putting those suppositions into their mouth, or would you rather women stay in the kitchen where you think they should be? or that women should remain quiet and let the men talk since women obviously know nothing about women, congrats you just went back to the 50's.
Congratulations, you missed the point.
Firstly, I'm not speaking for anyone else here, unlike you are (ironically, considering you and others are claiming people other than yourself have the opinion you think they do).
Secondly, I'm not trying to silence anyone else.
Thirdly, you are the only one who has suggested anything about women "belonging in kitchens" or that I have somehow "returned to the 50's" for saying that it makes no difference whether you are a male or female commenting on this thread, just because the subject matter revolves around females. you don't speak for everyone of your sex, especially regarding how your sex is perceived in various mediums.
But yeah, I'm obviously a misogynistic, sexist little boy who doesn't care about women. Thanks for making me the villain of the thread - boy is this familiar!
n0t_u wrote: It'd help to form a poll to get a general idea of the opinion of each group and that's really the only time such a thing would be relevant. Even then the sample size here would probably be way too small to get a good idea of it.
At least one person gets it. Thank you
actually I asked for their opinion, you are the one who said their opinion does not matter, you made yourself the villain of this thread so congratulations belong to only you.
That's not it all. Their opinion matters, their gender does not.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/20 17:57:16
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Asterios wrote: actually I asked for their opinion, you are the one who said their opinion does not matter, you made yourself the villain of this thread so congratulations belong to only you.
I said that their supposed gender doesn't matter, not their opinion. So yes, you have painted me as the villain due to your misinterpretation of what I said.
If you think I did say their opinions don't matter, go and find it for me. I shall wait here, like I did the last time this happened.
Azreal13 wrote: That's not it all. Their opinion matters, their gender does not.
I would disagree. The fact that the sexualization/objectification of them for a long time in Sci-Fi/Fantasy gives their say a bit more weight.
Extra weight on what, exactly? Somebody's opinion is not stronger than another's simply because their demographic is of concern, at least not in this circumstance. However, they can potentially provide useful anecdotal information, although this information should always be taken with a grain of salt - it may strengthen their argument, but it doesn't change the validity of their opinion, which is always valid, unless it is mindless or deliberately outrageous.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/20 18:05:42
except a woman will have a better clue about women then a man would, seriously do you see what you are typing? people are here saying the SoB models would offend women, so i'm saying why not ask them, instead of putting those suppositions into their mouth, or would you rather women stay in the kitchen where you think they should be? or that women should remain quiet and let the men talk since women obviously know nothing about women, congrats you just went back to the 50's.
Congratulations, you missed the point.
Firstly, I'm not speaking for anyone else here, unlike you are (ironically, considering you and others are claiming people other than yourself have the opinion you think they do).
Secondly, I'm not trying to silence anyone else.
Thirdly, you are the only one who has suggested anything about women "belonging in kitchens" or that I have somehow "returned to the 50's" for saying that it makes no difference whether you are a male or female commenting on this thread, just because the subject matter revolves around females. you don't speak for everyone of your sex, especially regarding how your sex is perceived in various mediums.
But yeah, I'm obviously a misogynistic, sexist little boy who doesn't care about women. Thanks for making me the villain of the thread - boy is this familiar!
n0t_u wrote: It'd help to form a poll to get a general idea of the opinion of each group and that's really the only time such a thing would be relevant. Even then the sample size here would probably be way too small to get a good idea of it.
At least one person gets it. Thank you
actually I asked for their opinion, you are the one who said their opinion does not matter, you made yourself the villain of this thread so congratulations belong to only you.
That's not it all. Their opinion matters, their gender does not.
This. The point of feminism and all the studies associated with it is not that women want equality. It's that people want equality. They study that through various different lenses including women, minorities, etc etc...
Every person is deserving of the basic respect that all people deserve. Nothing more or less. In this discussion all peoples opinions matter. But those opinions are not less or more because they come from a woman or a man. They are less or more by the validity of the points they make. If you disregard a persons opinion because of what they have in between their legs your wrong and part of the problem. If you give a persons opinion undue consideration and validity based on what they have between their legs you're probably an idiot. Also, part of the problem.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/20 18:17:29
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Lance845 wrote:Every person is deserving of the basic respect that all people deserve. Nothing more or less. In this discussion all peoples opinions matter. But those opinions are not less or more because they come from a woman or a man. They are less or more by the validity of the points they make.
Exalted
kronk wrote:My opinion is most important, in my important opinion.
Of course - Lord Kronk always talks sense
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/20 18:11:20
except a woman will have a better clue about women then a man would, seriously do you see what you are typing? people are here saying the SoB models would offend women, so i'm saying why not ask them, instead of putting those suppositions into their mouth, or would you rather women stay in the kitchen where you think they should be? or that women should remain quiet and let the men talk since women obviously know nothing about women, congrats you just went back to the 50's.
Congratulations, you missed the point.
Firstly, I'm not speaking for anyone else here, unlike you are (ironically, considering you and others are claiming people other than yourself have the opinion you think they do).
Secondly, I'm not trying to silence anyone else.
Thirdly, you are the only one who has suggested anything about women "belonging in kitchens" or that I have somehow "returned to the 50's" for saying that it makes no difference whether you are a male or female commenting on this thread, just because the subject matter revolves around females. you don't speak for everyone of your sex, especially regarding how your sex is perceived in various mediums.
But yeah, I'm obviously a misogynistic, sexist little boy who doesn't care about women. Thanks for making me the villain of the thread - boy is this familiar!
n0t_u wrote: It'd help to form a poll to get a general idea of the opinion of each group and that's really the only time such a thing would be relevant. Even then the sample size here would probably be way too small to get a good idea of it.
At least one person gets it. Thank you
actually I asked for their opinion, you are the one who said their opinion does not matter, you made yourself the villain of this thread so congratulations belong to only you.
That's not it all. Their opinion matters, their gender does not.
This. The point of feminism and all the studies associated with it is not that women want equality. It's that people want equality. They study that through various different lenses including women, minorities, etc etc...
Every person is deserving of the basic respect that all people deserve. Nothing more or less. In this discussion all peoples opinions matter. But those opinions are not less or more because they come from a woman or a man. They are less or more by the validity of the points they make. If you disregard a persons opinion because of what they have in between their legs your wrong and part of the problem. If you give a persons opinion undue consideration and validity based on what they have between their legs your probably an idiot. Also, part of the problem.
Are you saying the differences between 2 people shouldn't make anyones opinion matter more or less? Because I can think of several historical instances where that is not the case.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/20 18:20:34
Are you saying the differences between 2 people shouldn't make anyones opinion matter more or less?
In this circumstance, they shouldn't. If a confessed pervert enjoys Boob Armour, the validity of his opinion may come into question (although it still holds validity to a degree). Being a man or woman is not nearly enough to increase or decrease the validity of your opinion.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/20 18:31:42
Are you saying the differences between 2 people shouldn't make anyones opinion matter more or less? Because I can think of several historical instances where that is not the case.
Are you asking a sarcastic question? A persons opinion is not inherently more valid for any reason other than the validity of their opinion. There are idiots and bigots in all communities, from every walk of life, and with intimate knowledge of every subject matter. Just because somebody grew up in a specific area doesn't mean their opinion on that area should automatically carry more weight then somebody who did not. That person could easily be a racist bigot moron with no concept of greater societal structure and trends and their "opinion" on "how to make it better" could very easily be the most destructive outlook in existence. Peoples differences do not make their opinion matter more or less.
All people are weighed exactly the same. By the quality of the person. All peoples opinions are weighed exactly the same. By the quality of their argument.
A different person might have a different perspective to bring to the table due to their differences. In fact, it's basically guaranteed that that will be the case with every single person you ever meet. Their different perspective doesn't make their opinion more valid, it just means they might be bringing something new you might not have thought of because they are them and you are you. Weigh it intelligently.
Are you saying the differences between 2 people shouldn't make anyones opinion matter more or less?
In this circumstance, they shouldn't. If a confessed pervert enjoys Boob Armour, the validity of his opinion may come into question. Being a man or woman is not nearly enough to increase or decrease the validity of your opinion.
Just to be clear, not even here! A confessed or closeted pervert is going to have pretty crappy arguments to support his enjoyment of boob armor. The validity of his arguments will show in his statements. You will probably be able to figure out this person is a pervert before to long.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/10/20 18:32:02
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
All people are weighed exactly the same. By the quality of the person. All peoples opinions are weighed exactly the same. By the quality of their argument.
A different person might have a different perspective to bring to the table due to their differences. In fact, it's basically guaranteed that that will be the case with every single person you ever meet. Their different perspective doesn't make their opinion more valid, it just means they might be bringing something new you might not have thought of because they are them and you are you. Weigh it intelligently.
I agree with this statement; however, there is a difference between an informed and uninformed opinion. I wouldn't discount someone's interest in what a person of the opposite sex thinks about this topic as they are likely looking to create a more informed opinion. If you approach it from a more positive standpoint, you could infer that the person asking is showing sensitivity for whether a woman might find something offensive. I, personally, may be ambivalent about "boob armor" but if several women were to step forward and present an opinion, as the subject matter is women, not men, I could develop a better informed opinion for myself regarding whether the subject is offensive or not. I'm not asking someone to make my mind up for me but I would be asking them to help me come to a conclusion.
If I ask a carpenter (with no background in the subject) about astrophysics, he/she might have an opinion on the subject but I'd be more apt to let the comments of an astrophysicist weigh on the development of my opinion than that of the carpenter with no background in astrophysics. My asking the astrophysicist for their opinion on astrophysics does not detract from the opinion of the carpenter, who may have a unique perspective on the subject, but it does add to the discussion and helps me to formulate my own opinion.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
Just to be clear, not even here! A confessed or closeted pervert is going to have pretty crappy arguments to support his enjoyment of boob armor. The validity of his arguments will show in his statements. You will probably be able to figure out this person is a pervert before to long.
All people are weighed exactly the same. By the quality of the person. All peoples opinions are weighed exactly the same. By the quality of their argument.
A different person might have a different perspective to bring to the table due to their differences. In fact, it's basically guaranteed that that will be the case with every single person you ever meet. Their different perspective doesn't make their opinion more valid, it just means they might be bringing something new you might not have thought of because they are them and you are you. Weigh it intelligently.
I agree with this statement; however, there is a difference between an informed and uninformed opinion. I wouldn't discount someone's interest in what a person of the opposite sex thinks about this topic as they are likely looking to create a more informed opinion. If you approach it from a more positive standpoint, you could infer that the person asking is showing sensitivity for whether a woman might find something offensive. I, personally, may be ambivalent about "boob armor" but if several women were to step forward and present an opinion, as the subject matter is women, not men, I could develop a better informed opinion for myself regarding whether the subject is offensive or not. I'm not asking someone to make my mind up for me but I would be asking them to help me come to a conclusion.
If I ask a carpenter (with no background in the subject) about astrophysics, he/she might have an opinion on the subject but I'd be more apt to let the comments of an astrophysicist weigh on the development of my opinion than that of the carpenter with no background in astrophysics. My asking the astrophysicist for their opinion on astrophysics does not detract from the opinion of the carpenter, who may have a unique perspective on the subject, but it does add to the discussion and helps me to formulate my own opinion.
I get what your saying, but what you are saying is the same thing as me in a more specific way without taking some factors into account.
A man can come to you and present the same arguments that 5 women do against boob armor. That mans opinion is the same as those women. His arguments carry the same logical weight. If the only thing that prevented you from hearing what that guy had to say is the fact that he has a penis then you are corrupting the conversation. The fact that it is a man does not mean he has not put his nose in the books and studied the issues of inequality and the way gender issues are presented in media effects the way people treat the genders. That man could be your astrophysicist.
By the same token those 5 women may have never given equality issues a second thought and they may be your carpenter.
Treating a woman's opinion as more valid simply because she is a woman is JUST AS destructive as treating it as less. A persons differences do not matter.
The only valid way to weigh their opinions, and thus their "professional opinion" is by the quality of their argument.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Just to be clear, not even here! A confessed or closeted pervert is going to have pretty crappy arguments to support his enjoyment of boob armor. The validity of his arguments will show in his statements. You will probably be able to figure out this person is a pervert before to long.
You never know, he may be a well versed pervert
By all accounts, Hitler had excellent taste in wine!*
*I just made that up.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/10/20 19:04:21
Just to be clear, not even here! A confessed or closeted pervert is going to have pretty crappy arguments to support his enjoyment of boob armor. The validity of his arguments will show in his statements. You will probably be able to figure out this person is a pervert before to long.
You never know, he may be a well versed pervert
By all accounts, Hitler had excellent taste in wine!*
*I just made that up.
Wait, did you just out yourself as a boob-loving pervert?
Lance845 wrote: The point of feminism and all the studies associated with it is not that women want equality. It's that people want equality.
Just as a point of quibble. People do not actually want equality... this is the wrong term. They really want equity. When someone says they want equality they are usually asking for the wrong thing.
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