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 agnosto wrote:
The joke rules were an intentional slap to the face of the veterans whom the writers/management may have felt slighted them by not keeping the old game alive. Some may say, "it was all in good fun" but the simple fact that the rules didn't exist for the newly released models should say something as to the veracity of such an argument.

Sure, gamers can just ignore the silliness but if you're aware of the obvious intent behind the existence of the rules, it will just make the whole thing distasteful, which is how I felt and so I went from about $1000/year spent on WHFB to $0 spent on AoS.

I agree with you that they were stupid to the point of STOOPID, but you cannot personally ascribe their intent when writing them with any authority any more than I can. And I disagree with your assertion of their intent.

 Just Tony wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
the game is turning one and a half in December, isn't it???
story-lines and models are constantly being worked on...
that Stormcast Eternal statue is still in front of HQ, and doesn't appear to be going anywhere
all the doom-saying hasn't come to anything...

i do hear that there may be rules for blocks of troops coming, so that might be something for the disenfranchised...

cheers
jah

If there is any validity to the claims of a 2nd Ed. of AOS, then that would strike me as a massive negative for the game, especially with only 5(?) factions getting released properly in the current edition.

2nd edition of the General's Handbook, not AoS...
the community is being asked to contribute suggestions of what they would like to see incorporated into the game...
i don't know how it will all be taken on board, or if the book will indeed have a new edition every year, but it does look like things are not as set in stone as WFB editions were...
we'll see how it all shakes out...

cheers
jah

 Just Tony wrote:
This one goes to Lord Kragan. Yet again, you are using anecdotal evidence of your own meta as evidence of worldwide meta. Example: try to sell someone boiled peanuts north of the Mason/Dixon line in the US and you'll get a sea of disgusted faces, but do the same south of that line and it's like a regional delicacy. I can't even imagine all of Spain is as whole hog as you claim Barcelona is, and nobody anywhere is going to buy into unless you have some actual data other than HE TELL ME.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:
If there is any validity to the claims of a 2nd Ed. of AOS, then that would strike me as a massive negative for the game, especially with only 5(?) factions getting released properly in the current edition.

http://www..com/dakkaforum/posts/list/709106.page

So AOS Chronicles basically? Hardly another edition. I see it was a touch of hyperbole in the other thread where I "heard" the rumor.

delete.

 jah-joshua wrote:
the game is turning one and a half in December, isn't it???
story-lines and models are constantly being worked on...
that Stormcast Eternal statue is still in front of HQ, and doesn't appear to be going anywhere
all the doom-saying hasn't come to anything...

i do hear that there may be rules for blocks of troops coming, so that might be something for the disenfranchised...

cheers
jah

Just saying... what if GW released an actual game from day one instead of a parody? Also, the setting is still garbage, and the models an overdesigned mess (worse, that style is creeping into 40k, see Magnus). I seriously hope you people are into the system for money (FLGS or GW shops) because the shilling I witness in this thread is disconcerting.

Also: GW spent a good effort in WHFB before ditching it, they put out a lot of new, and often big, models. They are just too dumb to understand what people did not like of their system (People did not necessarily want new models, and new models per army are not needed to have people keep buying, if the system is good and considered a good investment, people will buy 3-4 armies, in 6th it happened).
GW keeping pumping new stuff is not a sign of better health of the game. Also, their vagueness in their reports to investors is borderline lying.

I am still here in trepidation, I think I will have a good laugh soon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azazelx wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
The joke rules were an intentional slap to the face of the veterans whom the writers/management may have felt slighted them by not keeping the old game alive. Some may say, "it was all in good fun" but the simple fact that the rules didn't exist for the newly released models should say something as to the veracity of such an argument.

Sure, gamers can just ignore the silliness but if you're aware of the obvious intent behind the existence of the rules, it will just make the whole thing distasteful, which is how I felt and so I went from about $1000/year spent on WHFB to $0 spent on AoS.

I agree with you that they were stupid to the point of STOOPID, but you cannot personally ascribe their intent when writing them with any authority any more than I can. And I disagree with your assertion of their intent.

They were well meaning, is just the people writing them are below-average. But I did see no bad ill. I am convinced that they genuinely thought it was the funniest thing ever.

Now just think what a GW designer could be in a social situation, like a dinner. EEEEEEWWWW

Lord Kragan wrote:

Herzlos wrote:
Yeah, you can definitely judge a book by its words. That the community thought the rules were a prank on launch says it all.

As if 40k or Fantasy didn't have "silly/joke" elements on their launches. I always bring Obi Wan Sherlock Closeau or some element of the original fantasy when the issue comes at hand.

I wasn't even talking about the "joke" rules, like the beard or horse things. I meant the whole thing; when they went live, the theme across the community was that they were being trolled, hard. "This isn't really the new Warhammer game, right?"

 Bottle wrote:
The Fyreslayers also had a joke rule on one of their units, so it wasn't only for the old stuff.

I'm glad they have now been largely phased out as I too didn't like the joke rules.

You'll note they are absent on his rules on the GW site (I believe it was the Auric Runemaster).

 Azazelx wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
The joke rules were an intentional slap to the face of the veterans whom the writers/management may have felt slighted them by not keeping the old game alive. Some may say, "it was all in good fun" but the simple fact that the rules didn't exist for the newly released models should say something as to the veracity of such an argument.

Sure, gamers can just ignore the silliness but if you're aware of the obvious intent behind the existence of the rules, it will just make the whole thing distasteful, which is how I felt and so I went from about $1000/year spent on WHFB to $0 spent on AoS.

I agree with you that they were stupid to the point of STOOPID, but you cannot personally ascribe their intent when writing them with any authority any more than I can. And I disagree with your assertion of their intent.

Certainly, without just stating it, I'm simply expressing my opinion based upon my own observations; if I had asserted some authority, I would have provided quotes or other related facts/figures. In the battle of opinions, ours are both equally valid.

But there is some similarities to the death of Epic with Age of Sigmar; It is sad that Games Workshop can not learn from its past.

Epic was a flag ship game that was on the level of 40k and warhammer in sales. It was a smaller scale battles in the 40k universe.
Most of the current large models for 40k apocolypse comes from older ideas in epic.

In 1997 3rd edition was released and many felt the game was being ruined by a dumbed down version of a previous detailed game.
Once you had detailed little cards with your army listed on them, with multiple units types allow for a lot of flexibility in list making.
When the new epic came out instead of having 5-6 type of imperial guard artillery units (Basilisk, Manicore, Bombard..etc) the new
version had "artillery" as the only unit choice. Many people quit playing the game to the point it died.. Years later they tried again to
bring it back with minor success.. but many were already scared off by the death of the previous game.

Look at the wiki page, sound familiar..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_(game)

Now.. with that said.. the new Games Workshop. Social, lower prices.. Are asking how to fix the game.. I dislike the fact they are working
so hard to try to be able to copyright something.. No longer empire..no elves.. Don't try to be the best at something.. just be different enough
that you can sue someone for having ideas close to it.. I hated they killed the background.. Changed bases.. over simplified game play..
there was no point values (since been fixed) but they still don't have details where you could customize your list and add or drop to get the most
into your army. Yes they previous edition had issues.. I just saw AoS as a lazy way to get around problems.. Need to write new background??
but previous work says this.. *magic its gone* now you can write what ever you want.. Need people to buy super hard new models but don't know what level to put it at??..
*magic no points* so no difficult math to try to figure out what would be a fair game. Sculptors complaining the hard work on making units fit closely together..
*magic change bases* now you can have gigantic model that a section of the board.
So today at your work.. don't work hard to fix the problem correctly take the lazy way out.

Many people feel the same.. this is why I feel the sales are down..because the way Age of Sigmar was handled when it was released and since..
We are reaching the 18 months window that was a make or break time frame for a game at the Old GW.. we will see what is next..

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
People did not necessarily want new models, and new models per army are not needed to have people keep buying, if the system is good and considered a good investment, people will buy 3-4 armies, in 6th it happened).

Locally, it is happening with Kings of War - with only one or two exceptions, everybody in my group of two dozen has two armies.

I have three armies, as does my good lady wife - and only one of those armies is held in common. (Dwarfs were the army that we played together while a courting-do.)

Many, likely most, of those armies are GW armies repurposed - though none from AoS. I saw more boxes of Island of Blood bought for Kings of War than I did for WHFB 8th.

GW had badly underestimated how much of an impact a good set of rules can have on driving sales. Even to the point of making expensive models palatable.

But expensive models for a poor set of rules was very much unpalatable.

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:
People did not necessarily want new models, and new models per army are not needed to have people keep buying, if the system is good and considered a good investment, people will buy 3-4 armies, in 6th it happened).

Locally, it is happening with Kings of War - with only one or two exceptions, everybody in my group of two dozen has two armies.

I have three armies, as does my good lady wife - and only one of those armies is held in common. (Dwarfs were the army that we played together while a courting-do.)

Many, likely most, of those armies are GW armies repurposed - though none from AoS. I saw more boxes of Island of Blood bought for Kings of War than I did for WHFB 8th.

GW had badly underestimated how much of an impact a good set of rules can have on driving sales. Even to the point of making expensive models palatable.

But expensive models for a poor set of rules was very much unpalatable.

The Auld Grump

I used to buy multiple armies for 40k and WFB. Later I bought multiple armies for Epic.

Now I buy multiple armies for many different systems and rule-sets proxying where I get the chance.

Gamers will always buy multiple armies for a system if the price is OK. They've been doing it for decades. Hell it's my main way of introducing new players to games for nearly forty years. I simply provide both sides while hooking new fish. I'll even provide such a service indefinitely if necessary to retain gamers in a system that interests me.

40k is the only game I own that i don't have multiple armies for

Ruin wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
The Fyreslayers also had a joke rule on one of their units, so it wasn't only for the old stuff.

I'm glad they have now been largely phased out as I too didn't like the joke rules.

You'll note they are absent on his rules on the GW site (I believe it was the Auric Runemaster).

Actually it was for the Runeson on Magmadroth. :-)

I tought the worst were the special rules for the first official AOS tournament. You were getting bonus if, when fighting in the realm of beast, you showed to your opponent the pic of your animal (with your phone). Really tells a lot about the mentality of AOS game designers

 streetsamurai wrote:
I tought the worst were the special rules for the first official AOS tournament. You were getting bonus if, when fighting in the realm of beast, you showed to your opponent the pic of your animal (with your phone). Really tells a lot about the mentality of AOS game designers

Encouraging people to take care of animals, thus increasing the ratio of well kempt mascots (are you going to show a mistrated animal? That will earn some serious scorn) and empty our stocks of ownerless animals, bringing them better life expetancies? That's something I can get behind*



*Joke, just in case, found today someone quite literal IRL, don't wanna risk. Still a pretty silly thing by the standard of the game, one of the few rules that DID bother me.


But I don't remember that appearing in Warlords, which IS the first official tournament. That and you had to bring the real deal and was for casual play (also brining red clothing to aqshy)

 streetsamurai wrote:
I tought the worst were the special rules for the first official AOS tournament. You were getting bonus if, when fighting in the realm of beast, you showed to your opponent the pic of your animal (with your phone). Really tells a lot about the mentality of AOS game designers

Well, if what I've heard is true, the guy in charge of developing AoS also runs a Halfling Team in Bloodbowl - the equivalent of playing Dan in Street Fighter, or using a Tyranid army filled with Pyrovores, or playing tennis with one foot nailed to the court. Sure, it's silly fun, but he apparently brought that "It's just silly fun" mentality with him into an environment not suited for it. Shoehorning that mentality into a game that's been moving away from such things so suddenly? Yeah, no wonder people lost their minds.

disagreed. Halfling in blood bowl and Dan in SF were/are brilliant and fun. This 'show a picture of an animal to your opponent' crap is neither. It's the kind of thing that I would expect in a group therapy for autist or person with social deficiency

 Mangod wrote:

 streetsamurai wrote:
I tought the worst were the special rules for the first official AOS tournament. You were getting bonus if, when fighting in the realm of beast, you showed to your opponent the pic of your animal (with your phone). Really tells a lot about the mentality of AOS game designers

Well, if what I've heard is true, the guy in charge of developing AoS also runs a Halfling Team in Bloodbowl - the equivalent of playing Dan in Street Fighter, or using a Tyranid army filled with Pyrovores, or playing tennis with one foot nailed to the court. Sure, it's silly fun, but he apparently brought that "It's just silly fun" mentality with him into an environment not suited for it. Shoehorning that mentality into a game that's been moving away from such things so suddenly? Yeah, no wonder people lost their minds.

Jervis Johnson who is kinda like a Warhammer diety, like Gene Simmons is for Metal.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
the game is turning one and a half in December, isn't it???
story-lines and models are constantly being worked on...
that Stormcast Eternal statue is still in front of HQ, and doesn't appear to be going anywhere
all the doom-saying hasn't come to anything...

i do hear that there may be rules for blocks of troops coming, so that might be something for the disenfranchised...

cheers
jah

Just saying... what if GW released an actual game from day one instead of a parody? Also, the setting is still garbage, and the models an overdesigned mess (worse, that style is creeping into 40k, see Magnus). I seriously hope you people are into the system for money (FLGS or GW shops) because the shilling I witness in this thread is disconcerting.

Also: GW spent a good effort in WHFB before ditching it, they put out a lot of new, and often big, models. They are just too dumb to understand what people did not like of their system (People did not necessarily want new models, and new models per army are not needed to have people keep buying, if the system is good and considered a good investment, people will buy 3-4 armies, in 6th it happened).
GW keeping pumping new stuff is not a sign of better health of the game. Also, their vagueness in their reports to investors is borderline lying.

I am still here in trepidation, I think I will have a good laugh soon.

no, i'm not here as a shill, nor did i try to get anyone to buy anything, or change their opinion of a product...
i am a fan, and a guy who paints models for a living...

if you think the game on release day was a parody, or that the designers are dumb, or that the suits are borderline lying to investors, i'm not going to try and change your mind about that...
you do you
the point of my post was that the community is being asked what they want in a game, which is cool...

I don't think that the AoS setting is garbage, but i do prefer The Old World...
luckily, there are hundreds of books about it to read and enjoy...

i really don't agree with you about the models being an over-designed mess...
i am a huge fan of the new models
the new Orc Megaboss is the first Fantasy Orc that i brought home, and pretty much started working on right away...
that is rare for a Sci-Fi fan like myself...
hell, i still have tons of Citadel and Marauder Orcs and Goblins from the 80's and 90's that have not been painted yet, but they are pretty low down the list of priorities compared to 40K Orks...

Silver Tower was an instant-buy, for me...
the minis are amazing, and the setting looks like it will be a lot of fun to bring to life with paint...
i just imagine painting the cool designs of the tiles on my bases
plus, the fish familiar is a nice shout-out to the Mordheim art...

Magnus is a must-buy for me...
he looks awesome, and i'm a fan of Matt's sculpting, as well as Tom's painting...
Ahriman is on the list, too...
he is a great re-imagining of Jes' original sculpt, and now he gets a Disk

good job we don't all have to like the same things...

cheers
jah

text removed.

Reds8n

I think we're done here really anyway.