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Ok, so I do like the dwarf rares, but I think they need some kind of powerful unit in there rare slot and not just warmachines. Now unlike giant mutated rats, giants, hydras, etc. Dwarfs do not seem like a race to have a large creature ("large" + "dwarf" being some kind of oxymoron, right?)

So what I think would be appropriate would be a unit of dragonslayers, ala the Ogre Kingdom's Maneaters.

A unit of 3-10 dragonslayers from the hero entry that are skirmish, but cannot take any runic weapons.

I think this would better fit their background (I cannot use the word "Fluff" for a race as hard as the dwarfs) than a rank and file unit. Also I think the special unit is a little weak for the background, and far too numerous (exactly how many members of this dying race are taking the slayer oath????) I could never in good conscience take a standardbearer or a tuba player for a unit of suicidal, berserker dwarfs!

I would love feedback on the idea, even though I am sure that many will disagree with unbreakable + skirmish.

You know you may have hit on something. In 7th it'd have been kinda broken, but in 8th, I think slayers could be made into skirmishers without breaking the game. Have to think on that one a wee bit...

T5, 2 wounds, no save, 50 points? Take as many as you want. As a rare unit, you don't really need a unit size cap, the 25% rare will take care of that. It's not like a 2nd rank of these guys would be a good idea either.

How about 35 points, stats as dragon slayers, but they all count as rank and file. Any model can answer a challenge.
Magical attacks for free, but no other runes.
"Final Oath", when a model is killed in combat, it makes an addition single attack on the model that killed it.

Really, T5 W2 and naked isn't very good. Compare them to other 35 point models (flamers and flesh hounds).

Without these additional bonuses, S4 attacks just aren't that good, and S6 strike last attacks you won't be alive to make.

I do think it is critical to have them count as rank and file. It would be a mess to track hit rolls, wound rolls, and wounds on each model individually, with nothing carrying over. (just let everyone challenge grail knight style).


-Matt


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Want another rare idea?
Brew Wagon. Nearby dwarves gain frenzy and stupidity.

-Matt

@HawaiiMatt Totally agree with you. I just love Dwarf fluff on these slayers (really one of the most unique parts of WFB lore) and I hate seeing them all ranked up with a tuba.

Also want more rare options for dwarfs, their rares are good but not great like skaven, dark elves, etc.

Brew wagon is perfect! Every army should have one . . . or two. Actually would be fun to have those work simiilar to the vampire count plague carts where they bump up a unit they are close to. Would be nice to have my "highly skilled" warriors re-roll to hit.

Y'know, considering grail knights
[T4, W1 A2 sv 2+, strike at S6 on the charge and lance formation, 5+ wardsave] are only 38 points, it seems like these guys, [what matt suggested] could be toned down a tad. I'd see 30 or even 26 points be operable.

oh, and their attacks are magical.

Dwarven chariot pulled by stout mountain ponies, IMO. If Dwarves had a "monster," it would be like the steam tank, only it would make the thing look like a child's toy and have two twinlinked organ guns with a -2 to your opponant's magic rolls aura.

Actually, Anvil should be rare too, and completely re-worked with it's powers.

-Matt

If the anvil worked more like the Cauldron of Blood or the Warshrine, it would be far more likely taken.

Seriously. The thing is less reliable than a number of Skaven "unreliable" constructs.

Really? I find the Anvil pretty reliable. It would be better in rare though because then I could take a fighty dwarf lord, which would make me happy.

Love the slayer hero unit idea. (I also love the tuba playing slayer though. )
Brew-wagon would be silly, but could be entertaining. Wouldn't like to see anything steam-tankish, I think fantasy should avoid getting too steampunky, or at least, leave it for the Chaos Dwarves.

I think that could be a great change for the Dwarf codex.

Id also like to see hammerers have 2 attacks. they are supposed to be the kings elite of the Dwarf race.

@ Captain Solon, maybe a price drop would be inorder, or at least a ward save.

@MAtt65: 2A hammerers FTW!

I like the idea of a goat chariot. Most people like the idea of bears with dwarfs, but I think carnivorous mounts would be tricky for a race that doesn't roam around a lot. Only concern would be are goats too similar to Gors?

I think putting the anvil in rares would be problematic, since the anvil is with the runelord.

Dwarfs should have steam tank though, they are masters of steam. I always thought the Chaos Dwarves were more daemon-engine than steam punk.

For entertainment value, I like the brew wagon idea. I've always thought the slayers needed something to make the worth taking imho. I was thinking along the lines of runic tattoos for a 6+ ward save vs shooting or magical attacks. They would at least make it to the fight then, sure they have a death wish, but they want to die in a fight. I have also thought that they needed something else too, like cavalry of some sort. They can power a gyrocopter, why not power doom rollers (they already have the blood bowl model). Maybe also have a stipulation that in order to take a gyrocopter to doom rollers you need to have a master engineer in the army.

For rare I'd like a 0-1 availability return of the goblin hewer. That was a great model when it came out. Unique and memorable.

What this thing?


Yeah, that does look awsome!

Yes, Goblin Hewer ftw. I don't even know what that thing did...

It would also be nice to be able to put different runes on the anvil. The fluff mentions this, but imagine the ability to customize your anvil to do different things...

We should have some unit that naturally comes with 2A, but with GW already kings in 8th, why would I EVER take Iron breakers now? Those boys could use a little work as well, but if not, well... HAMMERERS!

I like that idea of customizing the anvil.

EagleArk wrote:What this thing?


Yeah, that does look awsome!

Yes. Yes it does. I remember when that came out. Wish I had gotten one at the time even though I didn't play fantasy back then. That thing was fun to see on the table.

Nagashek wrote:Yes, Goblin Hewer ftw. I don't even know what that thing did...

It would also be nice to be able to put different runes on the anvil. The fluff mentions this, but imagine the ability to customize your anvil to do different things...

We should have some unit that naturally comes with 2A, but with GW already kings in 8th, why would I EVER take Iron breakers now? Those boys could use a little work as well, but if not, well... HAMMERERS!

I also agree a customizable anvil of doom with the ability to choose from a pool of different anvil runes would be great and what the anvil needs. Letting people customize their anvil of doom to being magic defence based, Damage or a mix.

I ditto on the customizable anvil.

Frankly, one of my favorite things about the dwarf book is how you can customize your magic items and warmachines with runes. It just makes sense that the runepriests would want to customize as well.

My only problem with the goblin hewer, is why are slayers not charging your enemy? And "goblins?" heck, I want a dragon hewer!!!!

It's part of the slayer army from Storm of Chaos.

Yeah, I know that, just don't get where your shame at failure and need to die in glorious battle leads to crafting a warmachine. Que?

Well, he was supposed to be a shamed engineer if that helps at all.

Well then Malakai (sp?) should have made a bigger steam drill (the upgrade miners have)!!!!! lol.

I love the idea of slayers, but hate how they play in the game (damn arrows!!!!)

hey malakai was in the gotrek and felix novels having created a missile launcher adn a zepplin which could survive the chaos wastes
Dwarves gave the empire their steam engines WHERE'S OURS??
you should also be able to put runes on the organ gun etc

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:hey malakai was in the gotrek and felix novels having created a missile launcher adn a zepplin which could survive the chaos wastes
Dwarves gave the empire their steam engines WHERE'S OURS??
you should also be able to put runes on the organ gun etc

I think steam tanks are frowned upon as being too extreme/excessive/not reliable enough in dwarf society as a whole. Understandable when there's still a lot of resentment from some about firearms being used and breaking with traditional crossbows. Even though they've been using black powder for a long time.

I was allways thinking of a giant steam powered cannon, firing a bigger cannonball or somthing?

EagleArk wrote:I was allways thinking of a giant steam powered cannon, firing a bigger cannonball or somthing?

Steam Powered cannon? That's the flame cannon.

Hey, I got an idea, how about a flame cannon that doesn't suck.

-Matt

HawaiiMatt wrote:

EagleArk wrote:
Hey, I got an idea, how about a flame cannon that doesn't suck.

+1, sir!

Lexx wrote:

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:hey malakai was in the gotrek and felix novels having created a missile launcher adn a zepplin which could survive the chaos wastes
Dwarves gave the empire their steam engines WHERE'S OURS??
you should also be able to put runes on the organ gun etc

I think steam tanks are frowned upon as being too extreme/excessive/not reliable enough in dwarf society as a whole. Understandable when there's still a lot of resentment from some about firearms being used and breaking with traditional crossbows. Even though they've been using black powder for a long time.

Actually the steam tanks were made by a tealian (sp) engineer named something like michangelo davinci or something

Interesting. I'll have to look up on that sometime. Still Dwarfs being dwarfs they don't seem to like new ideas or technology. Especially if it isn't proven to be consistently reliable.